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Emperor: Vulturret[NS] Prince of the First Rank: Sithis[NS] Imperial Council: Grand Councillor: Madeline[NS] Internal Affairs: Xemt[NS] Communications: Vulturret[NS] World Assembly Affairs: Manson [NS] External Affairs: Samsonyte[NS] Citizens' Assembly Officials: Speaker: McMannia Whitehall[NS] Imperial Justiciars: Chief Justiciar: Aav VerinHall[NS] Associate Justiciar: Smith VerinGuard[NS] Associate Justiciar: Zaphkael[NS] Imperial War Command: Fleet Admiral: Scottie[NS] Admiral: Samsonyte[NS] Admiral: Sithis[NS] Admiral: McMannia Whitehall[NS] |
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| Constitutional Amendment #1; An amendment to Article III of the Constitution. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 29 2018, 02:34 AM (430 Views) | |
| Caesar | Jun 29 2018, 02:34 AM Post #1 |
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Deputy Grand Councillor
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Constitutional Amendment #1 An amendment to Article III of the Constitution. Authored by: Assembly Member Caesar Emperor Emeritus Cognat I D'Vhakk Proposed by: Assembly Member Caesar Foreword The purpose of this proposal to the members of the Assembly is to amend and re-enact the sections and provisions under Article III of the Constitution currently titled "The Citizens' Assembly". All additions and subtractions from the original sections and provisions of this Article are subject to change if given a legitimate reason on the Assembly Floor. Article III of the Constitution of The Ragerian Imperium shall be amended to read as such, be it enacted by the legislature of the region: ARTICLE III -
Additional Information Under current law, the Legislature is too specified in what sorts of legislation they are deemed to propose as evident in Sections 2 through 5. New law enacts that the Legislature, both Assembly and Senate, will have the power to legislate whatever they will be it acts of war, crimes and punishments, citizenship regulations, etc. Under current law, the Assembly is the only legislative body in the region. New law enacts that there shall now be an elected body of citizens known as the Senate. The system intended to be created through the Senate is one of checks and balances instead of legislative hierarchy. Instead of a bill going in a linear direction from Assembly to Senate to Sovereign, or from Senate to Sovereign, the bill will go in an nonlinear direction. New Law enacts the system that if the Assembly passes a bill, it then goes to the Senate who then vote on it and deliver it to the Sovereign among passing. New law also enacts that if a bill is started in the Senate, it is to pass a vote in the Assembly in the same manner as previously stated. Under current law, there is no set system determining the fate of a bill that fails assent. New law enacts that if a bill is denied assent, it is sent back to the house that delivered it, be it the Assembly or the Senate, for revisions and another vote. This does not conflict with the provisions of Section 5 in Article 1 of the Constitution which states that bills that fail assent can be "either" thrown away "or" rewritten. New law establishes the way legislation is to be rewritten so as to save potential bills that could prove useful in the future. Under current law, there are standard electoral procedures determining the election of Speakers for the Assembly and the Senate. New law enacts and upholds this standard procedure and leaves open any additional form of electoral procedure and regulation such as special elections, sudden resignations, impeachment procedure, and term lengths for Senators to be passed in laws separate of the Constitution. Under current law, votes require 3/4 percent of total votes of impeachment to pass. New law enacts that the required percentage will be 2/3 for an impeachment vote to pass so as to assure a reasonable chance that an official who should be removed from office is removed. Under current law, votes for standard bills and legislation require a "simple majority" of "50% plus 1" in order to pass. New law amends and enacts the reduction of the "simple" majority to the majority vote. For a bill to pass or fail, either side simply needs more than 50% of the total votes, be it 51%, 52%, etc. The Additional Information section is not a part of the proposed bill and, if made into law, shall not be included in the revisions. Edited by Caesar, Jul 3 2018, 10:32 PM.
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| Madeline | Jun 30 2018, 05:24 PM Post #21 |
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Can you explain how we should do that? I really like the idea I’m just not familiar with it in practice! In another region I’m in, the two houses are their own things where one house is the entire citizenship minus the ones in the second house. Both can see the discussions which occur during bill proposals and edits, the difference is simply that they don’t vote in the House they are not in to avoid confusing crossovers. And there’s are ways to prevent someone from voting, if we do it the way we have elected people, you just have people vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain. If we want an actual poll, that’s even easier as Senators would be in their own group and would not be able to vote in polls conducted on the Assembly floor. Same goes for non Senate citizens. |
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| Madeline | Jun 30 2018, 05:41 PM Post #22 |
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For Article III bullet 2 (my list code is broken), we should reword it to say the following if the intention is to disallow Senators from voting in the Plebeian Assembly: The Plebeian Assembly shall be the citizenry of The Ragerian Imperium, with the exceptions of members of the Senate. |
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| Caesar | Jun 30 2018, 06:01 PM Post #23 |
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Deputy Grand Councillor
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Somehow with the courtesy of an additional information and this earlier remark, the purpose of this bill is still misunderstood. I do not know how that is remotely possible, so I will try once more. The purpose of this amendment is to fix the legislature, not set it in stone. The Constitution tells the government what to do, not how to do it. If there is a gap in the constitutional text, make a bill to plug it up. The issues that have been addressed here are issues that can be put in a separate bill or multiple bills if your heart wills it. You can even revive the name of the Assembly Procedures since those are no longer in use. Since there will be two houses, both will need their own unique system of procedures so the checks and balances as amended can be efficient. These procedures can even include how the Senate will not be able to vote in the Assembly regardless of citizenship. The amendment, as written, is fine. It does not need to be as clear as crystal since that's what other laws are for. Filling the Constitution with every little detail makes the purpose of even having a legislature obsolete as there would be no more laws to write. If that bit still confuses some in the Assembly, I am afraid I am running out of ways to dumb this down.
This will be edited in to further separate the Senate from the Citizenry to make the creation of future legislation for both houses more simple. Thank you Maddie and Power! Edited by Caesar, Jun 30 2018, 06:26 PM.
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| Eli Hesial | Jun 30 2018, 06:12 PM Post #24 |
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I just stated I would be refusing to motion... It means you do not have my motion. |
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| His Imperial Highness, Vulturret | Jun 30 2018, 06:26 PM Post #25 |
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Unstoppable Force
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I mean, you only need two people so ![]() Also, I'll start addressing my real legislative points on this issue... So, for starters, contrary to what some people have said, I like the lack of specifics, and how a lot of of things are supposed to be defined by specific legislation, which is good because it forces us to do more stuff, which is always good. I do, however, have a few concerns I'd love to see addressed by Caesar.
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| Madeline | Jun 30 2018, 06:46 PM Post #26 |
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I was thinking perhaps we have some type of standing orders which would specify the things you suggested. I think a way to rectify a lot of the unknowns that we have is requiring a Standing Orders be composed by the Speaker of the [Plebeian] Assembly and agreed upon by the citizenry which would better clarify how many senate seats are available, not to mention make more specific what should and should not be put onto the forum, such as "discussion" ideas that are not in a proposal type format for discussion. Of course the standing orders may be changed upon the "creation" of the Senate and the Senate's speaker! I too enjoy the slight vagueness of it all because it allows for us to make more choices on how we are going to form the legislature without being forced to amend the constitution every time we have a problem. |
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| Madeline | Jun 30 2018, 07:30 PM Post #27 |
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As the lovely Manson has pointed out, Plebeian Assembly, in addition to any other Roman-esque names are just not necessary because we are not Rome. I suggest simply the Assembly, not citizens Assembly, to further assist in separating the confusion of who may vote in the Assembly, that being all citizens minus Senators when it occurs. |
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| Eli Hesial | Jun 30 2018, 07:35 PM Post #28 |
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Problem #1 The legislative authority of The Ragerian Imperium shall be equally divided among two houses defined here as the Plebeian Assembly and the Senate. Yeah, no. Changing the name is pointless. Just send the CA to inactive to wait. Problem #2 Word Economy is bad here. " shall not be equal to or less than one persons," So, just say three with the next clause. Problem #3 Each house shall act as a check and balance for the other. Not explained in a well mannered way. HOW DO THEY DO THIS? Problem #4 Bad names. Just call them Speaker of the _____ Problem #5 Simple majority just means anything more than 50%. Supermajority means 75%. Simple is the best term for it. As you could have three options, yes, no, and maybe [just a point], and have something that did not get 50% win. Problem #6 "Should a bill fail a vote in either house, the house that created it shall take it back and begin revisions followed by another vote." If it fails in any house, it must be re-sent, with suggestions. Problem #7 "If assent is denied by the Sovereign, the bill returns to the house that delivered it to the Visitor's Hall for revisions and voting." This should be changed to house of origin. Problem #8 "Laws may be enacted granting a bill an exact number of attempts for assent before becoming null and void." What does this even mean? Problem #9 This bill is too complex in it's current state. Problem #10 You went all in with editing the Constitution, when the main focus should have been forming the Senate, it's election rules, and making it easy to understand to a newcomer. |
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| Madeline | Jun 30 2018, 07:44 PM Post #29 |
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Clarifications needed because words
What?
Read the rest, it gets explained on when bills pass one spot and fail another, that's the check and balance. If there are more you think there should be, suggest it!
In other words, if either house tries to pass the same law and it keeps getting denied by the sovereign or another house, there's a limit to how many times it can happen to avoid the annoyance of saying no to the same bad law. |
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| Caesar | Jun 30 2018, 07:46 PM Post #30 |
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Deputy Grand Councillor
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Your Imperial Majesty, instead of creating an additional clause regarding your specifications, I edited an already existing section, Section 3 subsection D (or cube number 4) to read as such: The establishment of the Senate may be validated by Standing Orders and Electoral laws that do not conflict with the provisions of this Article. In this wording, the Senate's existence depends upon Standing Orders and Electoral laws describing how Senators operate. In the circumstance that the population of the region is too small or activity is not high enough, clauses in the Standing Orders and Electoral laws can invalidate the Senate thereby dissolving it until population increases and activity rises. |
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2:25 PM Jul 11