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Constitutional Amendment #1; An amendment to Article III of the Constitution.
Topic Started: Jun 29 2018, 02:34 AM (430 Views)
Caesar
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Deputy Grand Councillor
Constitutional Amendment #1

An amendment to Article III of the Constitution.

Authored by:
Assembly Member Caesar
Emperor Emeritus Cognat I D'Vhakk

Proposed by:
Assembly Member Caesar



Foreword

The purpose of this proposal to the members of the Assembly is to amend and re-enact the sections and provisions under Article III of the Constitution currently titled "The Citizens' Assembly". All additions and subtractions from the original sections and provisions of this Article are subject to change if given a legitimate reason on the Assembly Floor.


Article III of the Constitution of The Ragerian Imperium shall be amended to read as such, be it enacted by the legislature of the region:




ARTICLE III - THE CITIZENS’ ASSEMBLY THE LEGISLATURE

  1. The legislative authority of the Ragerian Imperium shall be vested in the Citizens' Assembly, henceforth referred to as the Citizens' Assembly. The legislative authority of The Ragerian Imperium shall be equally divided among two houses defined here as the Assembly and the Senate.

  2. The Citizens' Assembly shall have the power to establish a uniform rule of naturalisation. The Assembly shall be the citizenry of The Ragerian Imperium, with the exception of Senators.


    1. This assembly shall have the power to compose legislation.

    2. This assembly shall have the power to vote on Senate bills.

  3. The Citizens' Assembly shall have the power to define crimes and their punishments. The Senate shall be a group of officials elected by the citizenry.


    1. This assembly shall have the power to compose legislation.

    2. This assembly shall have the power to vote on bills by the Assembly.

    3. The number of Senators shall be composed of three, five, or seven citizens, subject to legal regulation.

    4. The establishment of the Senate must be validated by Standing Orders and Electoral laws that do not conflict with the provisions of this Article.

  4. The Citizens' Assembly shall have the power to declare war through a majority vote. Each house shall act as a check and balance for the other.


    1. For a bill to be brought to assent, it must be approved by the house(s) that stand(s).

  5. The Citizens' Assembly shall have the power to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of The Ragerian Imperium, or in any Department or Officer thereof. The Assembly and the Senate shall both have an elected Speaker.


    1. The Speaker of the Assembly, shall have the responsibility of sending laws to the Senate upon a bill’s passing.

    2. The Speaker of the Senate shall have the responsibility of sending laws to the Assembly upon a bill’s passing.

  6. No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto law shall be passed.

  7. The Citizens' Assembly shall have the power to regulate the regional currency.

  8. The Citizens' Assembly and the Senate shall have the power to impeach the Grand Councillor, the Deputy Grand Councillor, the Councillor of Internal Affairs, the Councillor of External Affairs, any other Councillor, the Chief Justiciar, and any of the associate justiciars, and Senators with a ¾ majority vote.


    1. Impeachments of justiciars and councillors an office is are subject to the consent of the Sovereign.

    2. Office seats that are left vacant from an impeachment shall be refilled as established in electoral law that does not conflict with the provisions of this Article.

  9. Impeachments of justiciars and councillors are subject to the consent of the Sovereign.

  10. All Citizens serve as member of the Citizens’ Assembly.

  11. Unless specified otherwise, the Citizens’ Assembly and the Senate shall require a simple majority majority vote to pass legislation.


    1. Should a bill fail a vote in either house, the house that created it shall take it back and begin revisions followed by another vote.

  12. Legislation proposed by a citizen or Senator on the floor of the a Assembly or the Senate may shall be motioned for a vote after being on the floor for forty-eight hours.

  13. The Citizens and the Senators shall elect a Speaker every 8 weeks two months to preside over the Assembly and the Senate.


    1. The Speaker of the Assembly shall be elected from the Assembly.

    2. The Speaker of the Senate shall be elected by the Senate.

    3. Notwithstanding the provisions laid out in Section 8 of this Article, the Assembly and the Senate shall possess the power to impeach their elected Speakers with a ⅔ majority vote.

  14. The Speakers of the Citizens’ Assembly or the Senate shall then bring the bill to vote for 48 forty-eight hours at the ballot box Voting Desk.

  15. All bills passed by the Assembly must then be delivered by the speaker of the aforementioned Assembly to the visitor’s hall of the Sovereign's residence, where the Sovereign will provide assent to the bill if they so choose. All bills that pass the vote of the Assembly and the Senate shall be delivered by the Speaker of the second vote to the Visitor’s Hall of the Sovereign’s Residence for assent.


    1. If assent is denied by the Sovereign, the bill returns to the house of its origins for revisions and voting. The bill shall proceed through the same legislative process before being presented again.

    2. Laws may be enacted granting a bill an exact number of attempts for assent before becoming null and void.





Additional Information

Under current law, the Legislature is too specified in what sorts of legislation they are deemed to propose as evident in Sections 2 through 5. New law enacts that the Legislature, both Assembly and Senate, will have the power to legislate whatever they will be it acts of war, crimes and punishments, citizenship regulations, etc.

Under current law, the Assembly is the only legislative body in the region. New law enacts that there shall now be an elected body of citizens known as the Senate. The system intended to be created through the Senate is one of checks and balances instead of legislative hierarchy. Instead of a bill going in a linear direction from Assembly to Senate to Sovereign, or from Senate to Sovereign, the bill will go in an nonlinear direction.
New Law enacts the system that if the Assembly passes a bill, it then goes to the Senate who then vote on it and deliver it to the Sovereign among passing. New law also enacts that if a bill is started in the Senate, it is to pass a vote in the Assembly in the same manner as previously stated.

Under current law, there is no set system determining the fate of a bill that fails assent. New law enacts that if a bill is denied assent, it is sent back to the house that delivered it, be it the Assembly or the Senate, for revisions and another vote. This does not conflict with the provisions of Section 5 in Article 1 of the Constitution which states that bills that fail assent can be "either" thrown away "or" rewritten. New law establishes the way legislation is to be rewritten so as to save potential bills that could prove useful in the future.

Under current law, there are standard electoral procedures determining the election of Speakers for the Assembly and the Senate. New law enacts and upholds this standard procedure and leaves open any additional form of electoral procedure and regulation such as special elections, sudden resignations, impeachment procedure, and term lengths for Senators to be passed in laws separate of the Constitution.

Under current law, votes require 3/4 percent of total votes of impeachment to pass. New law enacts that the required percentage will be 2/3 for an impeachment vote to pass so as to assure a reasonable chance that an official who should be removed from office is removed.

Under current law, votes for standard bills and legislation require a "simple majority" of "50% plus 1" in order to pass. New law amends and enacts the reduction of the "simple" majority to the majority vote. For a bill to pass or fail, either side simply needs more than 50% of the total votes, be it 51%, 52%, etc.

The Additional Information section is not a part of the proposed bill and, if made into law, shall not be included in the revisions.




Edited by Caesar, Jul 3 2018, 10:32 PM.
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Replies:
Madeline
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PowerPAOK
Jun 30 2018, 11:00 AM
Yep. That should be addressed as well. By checks-and-balances, I meant how disagreements between the two houses will be addressed. Will we have joint sessions and free conferences so the two houses understand each other's reasoning? Free conferences is just a fancy way of saying facilitated conversations surrounding a Bill (just like this one) between all citizens, Senators included, in this context.
Can you explain how we should do that? I really like the idea I’m just not familiar with it in practice!
In another region I’m in, the two houses are their own things where one house is the entire citizenship minus the ones in the second house. Both can see the discussions which occur during bill proposals and edits, the difference is simply that they don’t vote in the House they are not in to avoid confusing crossovers.

And there’s are ways to prevent someone from voting, if we do it the way we have elected people, you just have people vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.
If we want an actual poll, that’s even easier as Senators would be in their own group and would not be able to vote in polls conducted on the Assembly floor. Same goes for non Senate citizens.
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Madeline
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For Article III bullet 2 (my list code is broken), we should reword it to say the following if the intention is to disallow Senators from voting in the Plebeian Assembly:

The Plebeian Assembly shall be the citizenry of The Ragerian Imperium, with the exceptions of members of the Senate.
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Caesar
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Deputy Grand Councillor
Caesar
 
Constitutional law is not meant to be crystal clear.
Somehow with the courtesy of an additional information and this earlier remark, the purpose of this bill is still misunderstood. I do not know how that is remotely possible, so I will try once more.

The purpose of this amendment is to fix the legislature, not set it in stone. The Constitution tells the government what to do, not how to do it. If there is a gap in the constitutional text, make a bill to plug it up. The issues that have been addressed here are issues that can be put in a separate bill or multiple bills if your heart wills it. You can even revive the name of the Assembly Procedures since those are no longer in use. Since there will be two houses, both will need their own unique system of procedures so the checks and balances as amended can be efficient. These procedures can even include how the Senate will not be able to vote in the Assembly regardless of citizenship. The amendment, as written, is fine. It does not need to be as clear as crystal since that's what other laws are for. Filling the Constitution with every little detail makes the purpose of even having a legislature obsolete as there would be no more laws to write. If that bit still confuses some in the Assembly, I am afraid I am running out of ways to dumb this down.

Quote:
 
The Plebeian Assembly shall be the citizenry of The Ragerian Imperium, with the exceptions of members of the Senate.

This will be edited in to further separate the Senate from the Citizenry to make the creation of future legislation for both houses more simple. Thank you Maddie and Power!
Edited by Caesar, Jun 30 2018, 06:26 PM.
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Eli Hesial
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Madeline
Jun 30 2018, 05:19 PM
That’s cute and all Eli but you do realize anyone can motion to vote, right?
I just stated I would be refusing to motion... It means you do not have my motion.
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His Imperial Highness, Vulturret
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Eli Hesial
Jun 30 2018, 06:12 PM
Madeline
Jun 30 2018, 05:19 PM
That’s cute and all Eli but you do realize anyone can motion to vote, right?
I just stated I would be refusing to motion... It means you do not have my motion.
I mean, you only need two people so :P

Also, I'll start addressing my real legislative points on this issue...

So, for starters, contrary to what some people have said, I like the lack of specifics, and how a lot of of things are supposed to be defined by specific legislation, which is good because it forces us to do more stuff, which is always good. I do, however, have a few concerns I'd love to see addressed by Caesar.


  • If this were to pass, and gain assent, which are two major hurdles, the Senate couldn't be seated because of the vagueness, but some could argue, that, due to this, the Senate would have to be elected and seated immediately. I think a clause needs to be added that the Senate cannot be brought into effect until after all the definitions that this amendment calls for can be brought into effect. This means that before the Senate can be elected/seated, we'd need to define procedures and timetables for elections, which, on the whole, is a good and necessary thing anyways. We'd need to define more about the two months, i.e. who runs the elections, how long are nominations, campaigning, voting, etc. I think that clause would be necessary. Would you be willing to add it to your proposal?
  • I think addressing who can and cannot be a Senator is important. Now, by addressing, please note that I do not mean in an act. I mean having a conversation about it, right here on this thread, before anyone motions this to vote. Now, in another region I'm in, Europeia, anyone can be a member of the Senate, regardless of whether or not they are in the Cabinet (our equivalent of the Imperial Council). I'm sure there are some people (I'm staring at you, Samsonyte) that would love to be on the Imperial Council and in the Senate.
  • Thirdly, how would we define (in the further legislation I mention in my first bullet point) how many Senate seats are available during any given election period? I think it should be proportional based on the number of citizens. Maybe one per 15? We need to make sure that there are enough people that are not Senators to still have healthy debates in Plebia, because Senators cannot participate in Plebia, from what I understand.

    In addition, I want to re-emphasize my first point. We need a clause that prevents the Senate portions from taking effect until after we define the electoral procedures. We need to establish who will do the elections, how many days for each period of elections, how Speakers are elected, days for that, etc. I think the Emperor would be an ideal candidate for hosting elections, because he will always have the best interests of the region in mind. However, the electoral proceedings would be proposed after this passes (assuming I get my clause) and we can debate on days and who will commission the elections later and on another thread.

    Assemblyman Vult, out! :P
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Madeline
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I was thinking perhaps we have some type of standing orders which would specify the things you suggested. I think a way to rectify a lot of the unknowns that we have is requiring a Standing Orders be composed by the Speaker of the [Plebeian] Assembly and agreed upon by the citizenry which would better clarify how many senate seats are available, not to mention make more specific what should and should not be put onto the forum, such as "discussion" ideas that are not in a proposal type format for discussion.

Of course the standing orders may be changed upon the "creation" of the Senate and the Senate's speaker!
I too enjoy the slight vagueness of it all because it allows for us to make more choices on how we are going to form the legislature without being forced to amend the constitution every time we have a problem.
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Madeline
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As the lovely Manson has pointed out, Plebeian Assembly, in addition to any other Roman-esque names are just not necessary because we are not Rome.

I suggest simply the Assembly, not citizens Assembly, to further assist in separating the confusion of who may vote in the Assembly, that being all citizens minus Senators when it occurs.
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Eli Hesial
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Problem #1

The legislative authority of The Ragerian Imperium shall be equally divided among two houses defined here as the Plebeian Assembly and the Senate.

Yeah, no. Changing the name is pointless. Just send the CA to inactive to wait.

Problem #2

Word Economy is bad here. " shall not be equal to or less than one persons," So, just say three with the next clause.

Problem #3

Each house shall act as a check and balance for the other.

Not explained in a well mannered way. HOW DO THEY DO THIS?

Problem #4

Bad names. Just call them Speaker of the _____

Problem #5

Simple majority just means anything more than 50%. Supermajority means 75%. Simple is the best term for it. As you could have three options, yes, no, and maybe [just a point], and have something that did not get 50% win.

Problem #6

"Should a bill fail a vote in either house, the house that created it shall take it back and begin revisions followed by another vote." If it fails in any house, it must be re-sent, with suggestions.

Problem #7

"If assent is denied by the Sovereign, the bill returns to the house that delivered it to the Visitor's Hall for revisions and voting." This should be changed to house of origin.

Problem #8

"Laws may be enacted granting a bill an exact number of attempts for assent before becoming null and void."

What does this even mean?

Problem #9

This bill is too complex in it's current state.

Problem #10

You went all in with editing the Constitution, when the main focus should have been forming the Senate, it's election rules, and making it easy to understand to a newcomer.
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Madeline
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Clarifications needed because words

Quote:
 
Just send the CA to inactive to wait.

What?

Quote:
 
Each house shall act as a check and balance for the other.

Not explained in a well mannered way. HOW DO THEY DO THIS?


Read the rest, it gets explained on when bills pass one spot and fail another, that's the check and balance. If there are more you think there should be, suggest it!

Quote:
 
"Laws may be enacted granting a bill an exact number of attempts for assent before becoming null and void."

What does this even mean?


In other words, if either house tries to pass the same law and it keeps getting denied by the sovereign or another house, there's a limit to how many times it can happen to avoid the annoyance of saying no to the same bad law.
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Caesar
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Deputy Grand Councillor
Your Imperial Majesty, instead of creating an additional clause regarding your specifications, I edited an already existing section, Section 3 subsection D (or cube number 4) to read as such:
The establishment of the Senate may be validated by Standing Orders and Electoral laws that do not conflict with the provisions of this Article.

In this wording, the Senate's existence depends upon Standing Orders and Electoral laws describing how Senators operate. In the circumstance that the population of the region is too small or activity is not high enough, clauses in the Standing Orders and Electoral laws can invalidate the Senate thereby dissolving it until population increases and activity rises.
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