a question for porsch

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a question for porsch
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 21 2006, 08:41 PM (274 Views)
werz	Feb 21 2006, 08:41 PM Post #1
werz Posts: 5,162 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: February 14, 2006	Is this approximately true about the beginning of Islam. http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h03is.htm



porsch1909	Feb 21 2006, 08:43 PM Post #2
Unregistered	woooo......that's a lot of reading.... Not got time just now....I'll read it later then I'll comment...:)
Unregistered


werz	Feb 21 2006, 08:48 PM Post #3
werz Posts: 5,162 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: February 14, 2006	Thanks, I only skimmed thru it to get a general gist of it and some history of its beginnings and how the sunni/shia split came about.



porsch1909	Feb 21 2006, 09:06 PM Post #4
Unregistered	Well I have an hour just now....so I'll have a read... I am the worst skimmer reader in the world though
Unregistered


werz	Feb 22 2006, 07:14 PM Post #5
werz Posts: 5,162 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: February 14, 2006	Seeing as you find it to hard to read this abridged version of the first 60 years of Islam, I will see it as a general chronological subjective history of Arabia and how Mohammad helped guide the people of the region into a cohesive group that eventually became a potent political force.



Johnny Fist	Feb 22 2006, 09:29 PM Post #6
Ultimate Advanced Member Posts: 3,030 Group: Members Member #21 Joined: February 19, 2006	Somone should print that out on rolls of toilet paper.



werz	Feb 22 2006, 10:55 PM Post #7
werz Posts: 5,162 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: February 14, 2006	Its been a violent cult since its first days, raiding caravans, and other groups of people who had more than them, they tied it into religion by saying it was gods will that they stole a lot of goods etc, if god didnt want them to do it then he would not have pick targets that could beat them. It hasnt changed much in the last 1400 years. Murdering people has been a pillar of its methods, justifying the slaughter by accusing the people they killed of not taking islams side in a battle. Muhammad's power grew as he distributed booty and made alliances with tribes neighboring Yathrib. With his rise in prestige and his added self-confidence he sought an increase in power by moving against those in Yathrib who did not fully support his activities. In April 624 he moved against a community of Jews in Yathrib called the Bani Qainuqa, many of whom were goldsmiths. The Bani Qainuqa - perhaps about 1500 in number - were expelled from Yathrib and their property distributed to Muhammad's followers (Muslims.



porsch1909	Feb 22 2006, 11:19 PM Post #8
Unregistered	werz Feb 22 2006, 08:14 AM Seeing as you find it to hard to read this abridged version of the first 60 years of Islam, I will see it as a general chronological subjective history of Arabia and how Mohammad helped guide the people of the region into a cohesive group that eventually became a potent political force. I do have other things to do with my day than to read that fucking long article and write a long reply about the accuracies and inaccuracies of it... If you are so interested in finding out the history of Islam then read a book about it, browse the internet about it... You have access to the same facilities as I do Werz so why don't you reseach the religion if you are so interested in the religion and draw your own conclusions about it all... If you want me to make some comment on the whole article and to point out what is false in the article....well you will have to give me some time....since when I skim read it I read a lot of things which where pretty inaccurate....and not what I was taught when I was growing up... If all you want is my opinion on wether it is approximatly true about the begginings of Islam. Then I would have to say largely that it is not... Also it was a boring article...didn't really engage me....wasn't written very well
Unregistered


werz	Feb 22 2006, 11:22 PM Post #9
werz Posts: 5,162 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: February 14, 2006	Authorities in Mecca had a different view of Muhammad's raiding caravans than did Muhammad, and they and the merchants of Mecca rallied against him. In early 627 they sent an army of around 600 against Yathrib. The people of Yathrib finished digging a ditch around the city just before the Meccans arrived, and they had masonry walls to fight behind - against an army with only swords, lances, and bows and arrows. For a month the army from Mecca waited outside the city for the Muslims to come out for battle. A few arrows flew. A duel between champions was fought, and the Meccan champion lost, followed by a small skirmish which gained the Meccans nothing. After a gale wind and cold rain, the Meccans returned home - in time to prepare for the annual fairs and pilgrimage to Mecca. Meanwhile, sensing treason by Yathrib Jews of the Quarayzah clan, who had not backed him in the face of the threat from Mecca, Muhammad had the men among them - perhaps six or seven hundred in number - beheaded and their bodies thrown into a trench, and some of the women were sold into slavery. This is a religion of peace. I dont think so. The justification for this slaughter was the people they murdered wern't muslims. Therefore could not be trusted. Nothing has changed, they take a perverse pleasure in killing and threatening to kill non muslims, using this fanaticism to threaten our freedom of speech, it seems all non muslims are there for muslims to rob and murder.



porsch1909	Feb 22 2006, 11:35 PM Post #10
Unregistered	You want my opinion on all this werz....honestly?? I can't be arsed arguing :rolleyes:
Unregistered


werz	Feb 22 2006, 11:39 PM Post #11
werz Posts: 5,162 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: February 14, 2006	It took 10 mins to read, I was hoping you could point out the inaccuracies easily. As an athiest, but raise christian, I would have little trouble refuting stories of jesus robbing and murdering non christians. That did happen, but centuries after his death, he actually forgave those who had him put to death. anyway porsch there is no point arguing about religion, its brainwashing of the gullible. a tool to ensure our alliegence when those in power require cannon fodder, its unfortunate that other religions dont see this, blindly accepting corrupt leaders lies about go directly to paradise, collect 72 vigins and 3000 year orgasms on entry. Try that one on any of us here and see how many fall for it.



porsch1909	Feb 22 2006, 11:44 PM Post #12
Unregistered	I was also hoping you would never wake up this morning but we don't get everything we want do we :rolleyes:
Unregistered


mireland	Feb 23 2006, 12:17 AM Post #13
Ultimate Advanced Member Posts: 3,945 Group: Members Member #8 Joined: February 13, 2006	porsch1909 Feb 22 2006, 12:44 PM I was also hoping you would never wake up this morning but we don't get everything we want do we :rolleyes: you two sound like a gay married couple...



werz	Feb 23 2006, 04:35 AM Post #14
werz Posts: 5,162 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: February 14, 2006	you dont know how many times I wish for the same thing. I was also hoping you would never wake up this morning but we don't get everything we want do we rolleyes.gif But ya can't always get what ya want. :rolleyes:



genesound	Feb 23 2006, 05:52 AM Post #15
Los Angeles Posts: 1,601 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: February 13, 2006	It's always the way though isn't it? Each side has it's own accounting of a war and each battle. One side claims it was a bloody hedonistic massacre, the other says it was bravely fought by walking wounded with the help of God almighty. Add that the accountings that finally get written down are written by men with their own agendas, and maybe not included into a real book like the Bible for hundreds of years and even then there is creative editing and many accounts left out for various reasons, then translated over and over, hell it's probably only 5% accurate. And some of it is likely just plain fiction. We have that here with accountings of the cowboys, Cavalry, Indians and Mexicans, and that was barely 200 years ago. The government bias lied over and over, and the popular versions at the time were inaccurate. What I was taught in school has turned out to be largely fiction, and that is fairly modern history. Add a couple of millennia to it, and then have zealots accept it as faith and it's just mind boggling hysteria, based on what, what somebody finally wrote down for glory.



herosrest	Feb 23 2006, 08:58 AM Post #16
Ultimate Advanced Member Posts: 3,156 Group: Members Member #20 Joined: February 18, 2006	Truth hurts.



Zybch	Feb 23 2006, 09:48 AM Post #17
RULER!!! Posts: 8,915 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: February 12, 2006	Isn't muslim some kind of fabric? Clothy Link



genesound	Feb 23 2006, 12:43 PM Post #18
Los Angeles Posts: 1,601 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: February 13, 2006	yep, use it in stage shows quite often, well not me, but the set ppl do <_<



Prushka	Feb 25 2006, 08:58 PM Post #19
Super Advanced Member Posts: 1,024 Group: Members Member #24 Joined: February 21, 2006	One thing I do like about Arabs and Persians are their carpets...especially large high end tightly knotted from renowned provinces...on E-bay for under $300.00 in cluding the expensive portion shipping. Got 2 from my brother at his cost for approx $400.00 very nice How they can be sold for that amount is beyond me...I.ve seen these in stores for a few $K



Zybch	Feb 25 2006, 09:14 PM Post #20
RULER!!! Posts: 8,915 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: February 12, 2006	Well basically, ANY store has a large overhead in rent, utilities, advertising etc etc. When they get somehting that people will pay stupid ammounts of money for, they'd be stupid to sell it low. All retailers will sell things for the absolute most their target market will pay for the goods. Fancy carpets are generalyl only bought by those with nice big expendable incomes, so accordingly, the price is quite high.



Prushka	Feb 25 2006, 09:16 PM Post #21
Super Advanced Member Posts: 1,024 Group: Members Member #24 Joined: February 21, 2006	Etymology of the word "assassin" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassassin Interesting aside



Prushka	Feb 25 2006, 09:22 PM Post #22
Super Advanced Member Posts: 1,024 Group: Members Member #24 Joined: February 21, 2006	Zybch Feb 25 2006, 08:14 PM Well basically, ANY store has a large overhead in rent, utilities, advertising etc etc. When they get somehting that people will pay stupid ammounts of money for, they'd be stupid to sell it low. All retailers will sell things for the absolute most their target market will pay for the goods. Fancy carpets are generalyl only bought by those with nice big expendable incomes, so accordingly, the price is quite high. Yeah, but the thing is, it will take a family approx. 1 yr. to complete With close to 60-70% of say $200.00 for a 7'/13' rug and original buyer's cost and transport...how much does that leave the family of say 6 people

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