| Welcome to Springboard. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| New place to play?!? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 12 2011, 11:46 AM (1,103 Views) | |
| Redguywins | Jan 19 2011, 08:25 AM Post #31 |
|
Lords of the 7th Chamber of Dismemberment by Chariot
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I've always been for playing it out and to my knowledge we did twice (both FNM you didn't make). If it seemed like I didn't care it was because I just went with the flow. Its midnight and people are tired, etc, etc. I'm not trying to be the bad guy in those situations. But if everyone wouldn't mind in those situations I would like to play it out 99% of the time. About JJ's I wouldn't mind playing it out there but can you imagine there being 1-3 ppl wanting to play out a top 8 when everyone else is wanting to hurry up and do a draft? It's the same thing. On that same note, I like Jay and he seems really cool. Not to mention I wouldn't mind bringing my daughter to FNM there either as she has a place to not be bored.Edit: At your first question: Petries plays top 8 and splits top 4. So far it was a cool place and it's right next to a McDonalds, asian restaurant, Little Caesars and liquor store. As stated before though, its too small. Edited by Redguywins, Jan 19 2011, 08:33 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Febiv | Jan 19 2011, 10:09 AM Post #32 |
|
Overlords of the Di Yu
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I feel the same way as you when it comes to splits, in all cases except the nights before a trip to Denver, of course then I shouldn't be at FnM anyway. Thanks for the info on Petries, it is something I didn't know. How is their payout structure if anyone knows? |
![]() |
|
| Anubis | Jan 19 2011, 10:39 AM Post #33 |
|
Lords of the 7th Chamber of Dismemberment by Chariot
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I wouldn't call it 'making it up on the fly' so much as 'this is what we've been doing since I came back' ![]() I actually spoke with Scott Marshall after the fact for clarification on the DCI's stance on that whole thing. Apparently it is NEVER up to the players to split top 4, in any manner. Whether it be prize support, or to draw it out. Under DCI rules, it's considered cheating, falling under "Collusion/Bribery". The only time a prize split can be decided by the players, is in the official 'last round of the tournament'. This generally only applies to top 2, unless it's already been announced that the last round will be Swiss, Tournament is over after 1 Round of top 8, Etc. The prize support itself IS determined by the store otherwise. So if the store says "Top 4 will be the last round of the tournament" Top 4 is allowed to prize split, but 2 people have to choose to drop before pairings. However, the store can say "X is the last round of the tournament, 1st-4th at that point all receive the same amount of support regardless". So we were both right, in different aspects, for the wrong reasons. Scott, feel free to correct anything I was mistaken about, but in our discussion this was the clarification I felt I received. |
![]() |
|
| Febiv | Jan 19 2011, 11:07 AM Post #34 |
|
Overlords of the Di Yu
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Since when is a prize split at any juncture collusion? Because if that is the case, there is collusion at just about every GP, there was collusion at the SCG in Kansas City...damn...is this you just making stuff up as you go along again? What you did that night was coercion..that is against the rules, that is for sure. There has always been a 1/2 and a 3/4 prize, usually 30/30 20/20 at Compleat, since John and Jake took over. People would even ask what the difference was when deciding to split. I told you I may want to play it out and your response was basically "Fine, we are still splitting the prize..." which was a decision that wasn't yours to make. And you wanted to argue with me about it...:/ We have been through this before, even on these very boards. If one person wanted to play it out, we would have to play it out, and coercing them into a split is against the rules. Doesn't matter anymore as of now, as Waystone is a thing of the past. |
![]() |
|
| Anubis | Jan 19 2011, 11:17 AM Post #35 |
|
Lords of the 7th Chamber of Dismemberment by Chariot
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
No, I said specifically playing it out was fine, but that the prize support itself was the same from 1st to 4th... Again, that's a store decision. And again... I spoke with Scott Marshall. I have the PMs still if you'd like to read verbatim what was said, as I wanted clarification on the specifics. I don't know why you're basically attacking me again here when my intent was merely to clear up the issue. If you want to take it further than that, it's all you, and I'm done with the matter. If you don't believe me, ask Scott. As again, I spoke with him. if I misunderstood what he said, he's more than welcome to correct me. |
![]() |
|
| Piley | Jan 19 2011, 11:20 AM Post #36 |
|
Master of Magic, Overlord of All Colorado
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
No. You were making shit up that night, as I've been a long time regular... and you were trying to change the way it was working effectively for several months in order to benefit yourself. We were doing it one way, and you wanted to change it at the end of the swiss, and suddenly try to get the TO to change how the money was being distributed among the final 4 players. You might not have been around when the system was put into place, but trying to manipulate it like you did -- crossed the line. Regardless of how you want to perceive it, at least we are getting the full 5 or 6 rounds of swiss prior to anything else. In some cities, the players don't even get that luxury. I've played in a lot of events in Virgina, where the prices were given out to the top 3 or 4 players only after _3_ rounds of swiss, and we had between 24 and 32 players that night. Obviously, with 5 or 6 people at 3-0s and not everyone getting prizes is the worst case scenario. At least we have the option to get a fair system in place at each venue now. The DCI does allow less than the suggested number of rounds per player turnout to be used at the TO's discretion. As long as the system used at the venue is fair, well structured, and known ahead of time... I no longer care if we have splits or not, or if we are playing to a final finisher or not, or if we are playing swiss only or not. I just want a system that is known ahead of time, and people can NOT argue about the final ending to the tournament every night. Edited by Piley, Jan 19 2011, 11:25 AM.
|
|
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- " The Liberals have been fighting poverty for nearly a century now. Poverty has won. Give it up already! " -- Christopher E. Otwell, 2011 August 24 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- When Hope is Lost, listen to this: http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hope-is-emo-ipod/id160169398 | |
![]() |
|
| Piley | Jan 19 2011, 11:23 AM Post #37 |
|
Master of Magic, Overlord of All Colorado
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Would you have been happier if I said "Red Deck Guy Wins from Colorado"? Yes, I screwed up your name in the heat of the moment, and it got recorded like that. Sorry. At least I was trying to correct a mistake that would of ignored your existance entirely. |
|
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- " The Liberals have been fighting poverty for nearly a century now. Poverty has won. Give it up already! " -- Christopher E. Otwell, 2011 August 24 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- When Hope is Lost, listen to this: http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hope-is-emo-ipod/id160169398 | |
![]() |
|
| Anubis | Jan 19 2011, 11:24 AM Post #38 |
|
Lords of the 7th Chamber of Dismemberment by Chariot
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
No Piley, It wasn't at the end of Swiss. Top 8 was being played out AT THE TIME, and I had won my T8 match. i was just trying to find out if we were going to be doing our normal top 4 split or not. EVERY week since I had come back (6 months at that point?) top 4 had voted on prize payout and whether or not to play out top 4. I had been in tournaments where we voted to split prize, THEN also play it out. I wasn't trying to change or manipulate anything, because that's exactly what we had been doing, and exactly what we had JUST done >_> *Shrugs* W/e, I'm done. |
![]() |
|
| Febiv | Jan 19 2011, 11:28 AM Post #39 |
|
Overlords of the Di Yu
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You are absolutely correct, and when I asked Jake he said it was as it has always been 1st and 2nd get the same amount and 3rd and 4th get the same amount but less than 1st and 2nd. So my statement IS true. Sorry if you feel you are being attacked, I am stating what happened. My first statement was meant as a joke, sorry if you aren't mature enough to handle it as such and wanted to "defend" yourself against this "vicous attack." DCI Floor Rules #25
[quote5.2 Collusion and Bribery The decision to drop, concede, or agree to an intentional draw cannot be made in exchange for or influenced by the offer of any reward or incentive. Making such an offer is prohibited. Unless the player receiving such an offer calls for a judge immediately, both players will be penalized in the same manner. Players are allowed to share prizes they have not yet received in the current tournament as they wish and may agree as such before or during their match, as long as any such sharing does not occur in exchange for any game or match result or the dropping of a player from the tournament. As an exception, players in the announced last round of the single-elimination portion of a tournament may agree to divide tournament prizes as they wish. In that case, one of the players at each table must agree to drop from the tournament. Players are then awarded prizes according to their resulting ranking. DCI ratings will not be affected because no match will have been played. Such an agreement may never include a concession or an intentional draw. The result of a match or game may not be randomly or arbitrarily determined through any means other than the normal progress of the game in play. Examples include (but are not limited to) rolling a die, flipping a coin, arm wrestling, or playing any other game. Players may not reach an agreement in conjunction with other matches. Players can make use of information regarding match or game scores of other tables. However, players are not allowed to leave their seats during their match or go to great lengths to obtain this information. Players in the single-elimination rounds of a tournament offering only cash and/or unopened product as prizes may, with the permission of the Tournament Organizer, agree to split the prizes evenly. The players may end the tournament at that point, or continue to play with only ratings points at stake. All players still in the tournament must agree to the arrangement.Example: Before the semifinals of a tournament (in which first place gets 12 packs, second place gets 8 packs and 3rd and 4th get 4 packs each) begins, the players may get permission from the Tournament Organizer to end the tournament, with each player receiving 7 packs. Example: In the finals of a 1-slot Pro Tour Qualifier that offers a travel award and an invitation to the winner, the two finalists may agree to split the tournament prizes, but this agreement cannot alter the results of the match. One player must drop from the tournament, leaving the travel award and the invitation to the player who did not drop from the tournament. That player is then free to split the remainder of the prizes as agreed upon. The travel award and invitation are a single item and may not be split. [/quote] Is this confusing at all? |
![]() |
|
| Anubis | Jan 19 2011, 11:32 AM Post #40 |
|
Lords of the 7th Chamber of Dismemberment by Chariot
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
"SleazyOtto · Dec 6 2010, 01:12 PM Report Post Forward The key phrase in policy is probably "...players in the announced last round of the single-elimination portion..." - i.e., you'd have to announce that Top 4 is the end of the tournament. If you don't announce anything, we have to assume a normal conclusion (i.e., play out T8 until there's a winner). And, if you announce X rounds of Swiss, no playoff? then there's no single-elimination portion, and thus no exception allowed. Technically, if your Top 4 players agree to split prizes and go home, they're all in violation of that Bribery & Collusion policy. I wish we'd fix that, but others want it to be illegal... ... SleazyOtto · Dec 6 2010, 09:43 AM Report Post Forward Check out the MTR (Magic Tournament Rules), at http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Events.aspx?x=dci/doccenter/home - esp. section 5.2, Collusion and Bribery. The 2nd paragraph has some clever wording, but it basically limits what I call "manufactured" or "artificial" results; typically, the exception in that paragraph only applies to the finals, between the last two players. However, if you announce ahead of time that the tournament will end once you get to Top 4, then those 4 can manipulate prizes however they want. If they fail to agree, then having an announced split of 25% each seems an ideal solution. HTH! d:^D " This is what I'm going off of. I don't know that I've misunderstood this at all. |
![]() |
|
| SleazyOtto | Jan 19 2011, 11:37 AM Post #41 |
|
Lords of the 13th Chamber of Eye-Gouging
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You were pretty close; one significant omission is where you said "in the last announced round" ... it was actually only in the last announced round of the **single-elimination portion** of the tournament - i.e., Top 8, usually. Or the finals of an 8-player side draft. The part that Frank bolded in his latest reply is new; up until this latest revision, the wording included "last round"; now, it's enough that everyone remaining in the single-elim portion of the tournament agrees. Note the extra restriction in there - cash or unopened product; you can only do this if there's an established value that can be evenly split. Airfare? nope. GP Byes or PT Invite? Hell, no. Frank, you were right - there has been a LOT of "innocent" collusion occurring, for years; that's why I argued (for years) for this very change. Remember the monthly "cash" events at Mile High Comics? There was collusion at almost every one of those, based on what I've heard. The thing that helped me push through that change was that (almost) no one involved in those Collusion conversations realized that they were doing anything wrong - it just seemed like a logical way to end the tournament 2 hours earlier, and make everyone - esp. the store employees - happy. d:^D |
![]() |
|
| Febiv | Jan 19 2011, 11:37 AM Post #42 |
|
Overlords of the Di Yu
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Tony, you ARE a liar! And now I am kind of pissed. You DEFINITELY tried to manipulate the prize structure that has ALREADY been put in place, that you obviously knew about by your post here as you even said you voted on splitting the prize evenly...why would there need to be a vote on a prize split if a structure of even money was already set in place? You tried to manipulate my decision of playing it out by trying to change the prize payout based on a "vote" and the other 3 players agreeing. Maybe you should look at the seciton I posted for you 5.2 of the Magic Rules where it says ALL players must agree to the split. Your words were "Well, the rest of us voted on the prize split so even if you want to play it out all places are getting paid the same" I told you this is not a democracy and it isn't a majority vote, all players have to agree to the split, and that is when you tried to tell me the store set the prize structures up, and I said yes, and the prize structure since Paul sat there with John from DAY ONE in Compleat South, was 30/30- 20/20 with the option to split in top 4. You a fucking liar! Rather than say "Hey, I was wrong" you continue to try and defend your actions which have been proven illegal. Man, is it that hard for you to admit you are wrong? GOD I CAN'T STAND LIARS! |
![]() |
|
| SleazyOtto | Jan 19 2011, 11:38 AM Post #43 |
|
Lords of the 13th Chamber of Eye-Gouging
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
To clarify - what Anubis quoted from was written last December. Pretty sure that what Frank quoted took effect Jan 1st of this year. d:^D |
![]() |
|
| Febiv | Jan 19 2011, 11:40 AM Post #44 |
|
Overlords of the Di Yu
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
MAGIC: THE GATHERING® TOURNAMENT RULES Effective July 1, 2010Introduction 4 1. Tournament Fundamentals 5 1.1 Tournament Types 5 1.2 Publishing Tournament Information 5 1.3 Tournament Roles 5 1.4 Participation Eligibility 5 1.5 DCI Membership Number 7 1.6 Tournament Organizer 7 1.7 Head Judge 7 1.8 Floor Judges 7 1.9 Scorekeeper 8 1.10 Players 8 1.11 Spectators 9 2. Tournament Mechanics 10 2.1 Match Structure 10 2.2 Play/Draw Rule 10 2.3 Pregame Procedures 10 2.4 Conceding or Intentionally Drawing Games or Matches 10 2.5 End-of-Match Procedure 11 2.6 Time Extensions 11 2.7 Deck Registration 11 2.8 Deck Checks 12 2.9 Taking Notes 12 2.10 Dropping from a Tournament 12 2.11 Electronic Devices 13 2.12 Appeals to the Head Judge 13 3. Tournament Rules 14 3.1 Tiebreakers 14 3.2 Format and Ratings Categories 14 3.3 Authorized Cards 15 3.4 Proxy Cards 15 3.5 Card Interpretation 16 3.6 New Releases 16 3.7 Game Markers 16 3.8 Card Shuffling 16 3.9 Sleeves 17 3.10 Marked Cards 17 3.11 Hidden Information 17 3.12 Tapped/Flipped Cards 17 3.13 Graveyard Order 17 3.14 Sideboard 18 4. Communication 19 4.1 Player Communication 19 4.2 Tournament Shortcuts 20 4.3 Out-of-Order Sequencing 21 4.4 Team/Two-Headed Giant Communication 21 5. Tournament Violations 22 5.1 Cheating 22 5.2 Collusion and Bribery 22 5.3 Wagering 22 5.4 Unsporting Conduct 23 5.5 Slow Play 23 6. Constructed Tournament Rules 24 6.1 Deck Construction Restrictions 24 6.2 Sideboard Use 24 6.3 Standard Format Deck Construction 24 6.4 Extended Format Deck Construction 25 6.5 Vintage Format Deck Construction 26 6.6 Legacy Format Deck Construction 27 6.7 Block Constructed Format Deck Construction 28 7. Limited Tournament Rules 29 7.1 Deck Construction Restrictions 29 7.2 Sideboard Use 29 7.3 Card Use in Limited Tournaments 29 7.4 Abnormal Product 30 7.5 Sealed Deck Swap 30 7.6 Draft Pod Assembly 30 7.7 Booster Draft Procedures 30 8. Team Tournament Rules 32 8.1 Team Names 32 8.2 Team Composition and Identification 32 8.3 Team Ratings 32 8.4 Team Communication Rules 32 8.5 Unified Deck Construction Rules 32 8.6 Team Rochester Draft Tournaments 32 8.7 Team Sealed Deck Tournaments 33 9. Two-Headed Giant Tournament Rules 35 9.1 Match Structure 35 9.2 Communication Rules 35 9.3 Play-Draw Rule 35 9.4 Pregame Procedure 35 9.5 Two-Headed Giant Constructed Rules 35 9.6 Two-Headed Giant Limited Rules 35 9.7 Two-Headed Giant Booster Draft Tournaments 36 10. Sanctioning Rules 37 10.1 Participation Minimums 37 10.2 Number of Rounds 37 10.3 Invitation-Only Tournaments 37 10.4 Pairing Algorithm 37 Appendix A—Changes From Previous Versions 38 Appendix B—Time Limits 39 Booster Draft Timing 40 Rochester Draft Timing 40 Two-Headed Giant Draft Timing 41 Appendix C—DCI Rating and Ranking Systems 42 ELO Ratings System 42 Appendix D—Tiebreaker Explanation 43 Match Points 43 Game Points 43 Match-win percentage 43 Game-win percentage 43 Opponents’ match-win percentage 44 Opponents’ game-win percentages 45 Byes 45 Appendix E—Recommended Booster Mix for Limited Tournaments 46 Appendix F—Recommended Number of Rounds in Swiss Tournaments 47 |
![]() |
|
| Febiv | Jan 19 2011, 11:40 AM Post #45 |
|
Overlords of the Di Yu
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
July of last year Scott. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
![]() ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community. Learn More · Register Now |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Magic The Gathering · Next Topic » |




![]](http://z4.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)




1:37 AM Jul 11