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| Dota 2 Weekend!; CAUSE YEAH | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 12 2014, 02:32 AM (18,014 Views) | |
| Olinea | Feb 12 2014, 02:32 AM Post #1 |
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No finesse
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So Snow and I decided this weekend we're (planning on) playing a bit of Dota 2 just for funsies. I'm not very confident in my skills against actual players but I like low-stress environments with bots and it's just for fun but we'd prefer playing with people we know instead of adding randoms to the group. If y'all are interested in trying the game out we're going to try and arrange a night this weekend to do that. Thread is mostly to gauge interest, and if it works out well it can be a bit of a regular thing. EDIT: For convenience, the comfort chart is found at: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OaDvltjsTSpsKOcGw1jXxre3hkZ1TII3R28geXfvVC4/edit#gid=0 Edited by Olinea, Jul 29 2014, 01:38 AM.
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| Snowman | Feb 12 2014, 02:55 AM Post #2 |
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Berserker
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つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give DIRETIDE |
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| Olinea | Feb 15 2014, 11:08 AM Post #3 |
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No finesse
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Night #1 was a pretty good success, aside from me having to leave after the first game (idk if you guys played any after that). We |
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| LightningBolt | Feb 16 2014, 04:44 AM Post #4 |
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Boring Person
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I had an up and (mostly) down night tonight (which would be Night 2). We did about six games, I'd guess. I did absolutely horribly in two of them, pretty well in one or two, and bleh in the rest. My thoughts on the game are very mixed. For starters, I think it's a game that would probably take a lot of time to actually become comfortable with. For a beginner, the way the game flows just doesn't seem to really follow much rhyme or reason. You basically should only really attack if the other person (or people, later in the game) in your lane is ready to attack with you. Well we were playing with two bots. It was basically impossible to tell when those fuckers were going to attack, so laning with a bot was really frustrating for me. Their movements were also very jagged. They just kept moving all over the place. This was really annoying when we were near enemies, and the bot would walk up to the enemies and you'd be like "oh okay let's fuck them up" and then they'd like run away immediately after and you were boned. That happened a lot of times specifically in the last game we did where I was forced to lane with bots most of the time. That last game was hell for me. I really feel like we didn't have any coordination at all as a team. Considering I was playing as a ganker, that was really bad since I'd try to gank an enemy just to find that my allies in that lane were not doing what I thought they were going to do. I think Oli was also a ganker in that one, so I basically had to try to guess when an appropriate time to gank someone in a lane with an allied bot most of the time, which was really hard for me to do. Snow also had a lane I guess, but I don't really recall having any specific problems doing it in his. So yeah the big thing for me was just not having the game sense that comes with hours and hours of play time. It's a pretty frustrating game early on because of that. I feel like so much of the game is probably based around being able to guess how things are going to play out and also coordinating with your allies on when to attack and stuff (and considering we had two bot allies, this was pretty hard). That said, there's still a basic level of fun that comes with playing a game with your friends. There were fun games in the bunch tonight, and fun moments even in the bad games. I'm up for more tomorrow night if you guys are, if I don't have to go back to school tomorrow (I think I might, though). I had my most fun laning with either Oli or Snow. I'm not good enough to lane by myself yet and the bots are just really frustrating to play with (and I seemed to lane with them more as the night went on). I also had fun ganking that first time, but the second time was frustrating for reasons I've already said. This probably would've been a lot more fun if we could've gotten two others to join in, or even a group of 10 of us assuming you can do 10 people and have a 5v5 that way (I'm not sure if you can?). There are only like two or three people on this board who seem to have extensive experience with this genre and it'd probably be a blast if we could get both sides full of noobs from here. That may be asking for a bit much, though, since we could only get us three this weekend. Maybe we can plan another weekend and try to get some others to join us (and get them to download the game ahead of time). |
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| Snowman | Feb 16 2014, 05:08 AM Post #5 |
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Berserker
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Darkie said he was downloading, but reached a bandwidth cap or something and now has to download it very slowly. He said it will be done by tomorrow (the 16th) so he might join. That other friend I mentioned said he might be willing to play tomorrow, but he's not sure. He's out of town with his family so naturally they're busy doing out-of-town things, but he might be able to in the evening or something idk. |
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| Olinea | Feb 16 2014, 05:15 AM Post #6 |
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No finesse
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Playing with the bots was pretty frustrating early on because, like you said, they don't extensively communicate the way we did. When I played Anti-Mage my allied bot seemed to recognize that I was a carry hero, though, and he held off on stealing last hits from me which I thought was nice. Midgames were kinda hell because the enemy team would tend to group up in bunches of 3-4 and gank us, and we'd be suffering while our allied bots were on the other side of the map and able to farm and function in peace. We did rely on them a lot lategame though, they had really good game sense for being bots and they were instrumental in that last victory. If all 3 of us fucked up we'd probably lose but we always had at least one of us who got through laning intact and managed to get our bots powerful enough. You've been shuffling through heroes and roles. Some you liked (Kaldr, Clockwork) and some you loathed (Jakiro, Pugna). You've had a taste of solo laning (as Clockwork v. Zeus and from my perspective you made it work, and even found the time to roam around which is good - your first games had you focus on one lane for literally half an hour) and laning as a duo - really you just need to experience carrying but for obvious reasons we'll hold off on that for a while. Now you know how to lane a bit better (I think... we never got to lane together for the last 3-4 games) and Clockwork games proved you're capable of roaming, it's just the lategame that really needs help. That last game went poorly because I played a really selfish style - Tinker has an ability that refreshes all of his cooldowns, and when I got my Boots of Travel I could teleport to a lane, throw down waves of machines, refresh cooldowns, teleport back to the fountain, refresh my mana, and do it over again. I was all over the map but I was stealing away money and experience like you could not believe. I think I had somewhere in the 280s for my final creep kill count, and you and Snow had barely broken 70, if even that. It meant that we were technically devoting all of our money to someone who was rarely in fights at all, just playing PvE and trying to push lanes. Our breakthrough happened when our bots made a pick on an enemy player and you 4 said "fuck it, we don't need Oli" and pushed up midlane, demanding the attention of all of the enemies so I could finally break a set of barracks. Lategame game sense is hard to develop and you're correct when you note that it's not something you just instantly get - as you play more games you'll get the feel of the game flow. I hope you noticed in the last game that the enemies constantly grouped up in squads of 4 or 5 - which was bad for you because we weren't capable of facing them head-on and winning, and as such you never really got a good opportunity to hook in there and trap them. Your guys' push on the mid lane which broke the barracks was a 4-man push (while I was off by myself farming creeps for money I didn't need) and it was the most instrumental thing in our victory. I remember you noting that frequently people would bail on you and leave you alone, or that it was hard to find people to gank - both were true, and sometimes it comes down to sticking with the team. Gankers don't always have to operate alone, and they really shouldn't be doing so anyways. Minimap is your best friend and tells you everything. If the Xs aren't on the map you don't know where they are. If you have no teammates with you and you're pushed up to their second tower you need an exit strategy. These are really fun and I'm learning a lot myself about the capabilities of certain heroes and whatnot. More people should join! It's really fun, no-stress environment, and everyone learns something on every game. EDIT: Also, a popular Dota player named Purge wrote a guide called Welcome to Dota, You Suck which covers a lot of the basics. It is long, but in-depth. The best way to learn is to play, but that doesn't mean reading doesn't help. If you want to be better than "completely helpless what do I do" before playing then just watch this video: [utube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54g5ej4NAek[/utube] Edited by Olinea, Feb 16 2014, 05:52 AM.
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| DarkFlashlight | Feb 17 2014, 04:37 AM Post #7 |
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it will take a toll
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WELL THAT ONE GAME WAS FUN |
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| Olinea | Feb 17 2014, 05:15 AM Post #8 |
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No finesse
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I'M SORRY MY MOM WAS VISITING ARE YOU AVAILABLE TO PLAY TONIGHT ANYMORE? |
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| Snowman | Feb 23 2014, 04:22 AM Post #9 |
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Berserker
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OUR FIRST FIVE-PERSON GAME TONIGHT OMG (Oli/Milk/Lightning/Darkie/Me) |
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| Olinea | Feb 23 2014, 07:08 AM Post #10 |
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No finesse
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Reflections Passive Bots (Oli/Snow/Lightning/Darkie/Milk) Milk's first game... could have gone better. Snow's disconnects probably didn't do many favors for the teaching process and Earth Spirit is very low on the list of heroes I would recommend to start with - but the first game is not so much about the hero as it is about learning the game flow and mechanics. Early game tower shenanigans are never fun, doubly so when you're a melee hero and thus very prone to being its target. I went and looked up aggro mechanics to settle this because I never bothered to find out until now.
Basically the tower was attacking you because you were the closest thing to it (you were melee). And, being so close, you suffered a lot of damage trying to run away from it as it attacked - really not good. At the end you seemed to process pretty quickly when you were under attack, which is a valuable thing to know. I'm not sure how much the tutorial taught, but the biggest piece of advice to follow for next time is to watch your creeps and get a feel for when they're dying. You want to stay close to the action, but remember that they are suicidal and you should not be. Figure out about how long it will take for your last creep to die and leave you by yourself, and give yourself some time to get back to the next wave. If you die, you lose out on time spent in the lane gaining experience, gold, and more importantly making your opponent's life difficult. For now, since you're unfamiliar with the limits of creeps, towers, and heroes, it's better to be a weenie and avoid conflict than risk your life and try to end the game a tiny bit quicker. I did see you use Earth Spirit's abilities towards the end, placing boulders and knocking them around - it's good to use your abilities and learn what they do, because there's a lot of things to learn, and a lot of the fun lies in using your skills effectively. He's just very difficult to use properly, but the aim of that game wasn't to learn how to play Earth Spirit, it was to learn how to play Dota. Easy Bots (Oli/Snow/Lightning/Darkie) Darkie learns that the life of a carry is hard. Easy bots were pretty aggressive and this was your first time on a melee hero - you ended up tanking creeps, taking damage, and triggering the bots' aggressive side. I'm not sure I properly described what a carry is so let me clarify in this context where I can type more. Spectre may be melee, she may not be able to do much early game (as you found out), but that changes as she gets more and more items. You haven't really seen someone with a crapton of items hitting fast and hard, but Spectre functions well under that condition because of her ability to reflect damage being thrown onto her (your third skill, which passively blocks a percentage of incoming damage and reflects it back to them) and her ultimate which makes copies of herself to chase down every enemy hero on the map. If you get powerful, your copies get powerful, and if used correctly she decimates teams - not to mention she gets super strong at picking off people who are alone, chasing them down, and slaying them. Problem with Spectre is getting to that point. You need a lot of money and the main sources are creep kills, tower kills, hero kills, and just waiting around. The quickest way to get powerful is those creep kills - each one gives 40-50 gold per kill, so every minute of the game can provide 400 gold from creep kills alone if you do it perfectly. Easiest way to ensure you get the creep kill is by last-hitting, where you refrain from attacking at all until the creep is at about 10% of its health - then you just attack once, get the killing blow, and receive your gold. It doesn't matter how much of that damage is contributed by creeps or your allies, if you get the last hit then you get the gold. So your job as a carry is just to get last-hits, get the most money out of everyone in the game, and just go to town on the enemy team. If you build correctly and/or get far enough ahead it is entirely possible to take an entire enemy team 1v5. That's a carry's job. Put the team on your back and come in at the eleventh hour. Easy bots are definitely different from Passive, as you can tell - specifically the part where they use their abilities and will make an attempt to kill you if they see fit. But you aren't gonna get to be a better player against Passive so we're going to play more and more Easy bot games to get a feel of how a lane really feels - you have established battle lines, and crossing those, straying from your allies, and not reacting to aggression will cost you your life. Passive bots are good for not dying to creeps and towers, and learning how heroes work. Easy is where you learn how a game is played. |
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| DarkFlashlight | Feb 23 2014, 07:25 PM Post #11 |
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it will take a toll
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spectre is the best i will always play her in every game |
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| Snowman | Feb 23 2014, 08:38 PM Post #12 |
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Berserker
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I did like playing Bounty Hunter. I was too aggressive sometimes 'cause "WHOAH THIS GUY CAN KILL MAYBE HE CAN SURVIVE ANY ENCOUNTER TOO" but he seems fun. I also like Io, but it's probably better when we have plans and stuff so I know who wants to be teleported and things like that. But we're not there yet so I probably won't play it for a while. Not sure who I'll play next time. Interested in Anti-Mage, Silencer, and Sniper, but I kinda want to random every time too, so idk. |
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| Olinea | Feb 24 2014, 12:54 AM Post #13 |
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No finesse
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We'll run Spectre/Anti-Mage lane for maximum OP |
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| dwestfan13 | Feb 24 2014, 01:43 AM Post #14 |
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Feeder
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So I have this game now and will be available all next weekend, as far as I know. |
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| Olinea | Feb 24 2014, 11:07 PM Post #15 |
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No finesse
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Oh, and I made a *cough* short..ish video because the Purge video I posted is not very helpful for learning how to play. The game sounds can get kinda loud and I can get kinda not loud but I think it'd be good to watch if you have trouble with the bare basics of the game. It's not a comprehensive guide but really just meant to introduce you to not dying, using spells, and healing. [utube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR9tfWrSuoY[/utube] |
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