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Dota 2 Weekend!; CAUSE YEAH
Topic Started: Feb 12 2014, 02:32 AM (18,076 Views)
DarkFlashlight
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it will take a toll
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lol@that Shaman being mad at me for farming the whole game. I stayed in the jungle longer than I had to just to make him panic more.


That being said, I really like hard carrying and want to practice it more (I was sort of surprised it worked in a bot match, since they usually end so quickly). Maybe I should start playing FV. I could try Spectre again.

And obv Medusa.
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cscrocker
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Ang tanging Pilipino sa forum na ito
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I'm not even mad, this Morphling was amazing. Well, I was lagging very hard about 15 minutes in but not like it's gonna change the outcome.
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tfghost92
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swag on this dick, bitches
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dwestfan13
Jun 29 2014, 07:09 AM
I thought it was Easy bots?

EDIT:

Confirmed with Darkie. It was Easy.
DON'T TAKE THIS FROM ME
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DarkFlashlight
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it will take a toll
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cscrocker
Jun 29 2014, 09:24 AM
I'm not even mad, this Morphling was amazing. Well, I was lagging very hard about 15 minutes in but not like it's gonna change the outcome.
dat Morphling's most played heroes doe
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Olinea
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No finesse
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DarkFlashlight
Jun 29 2014, 07:18 AM
That being said, I really like hard carrying and want to practice it more (I was sort of surprised it worked in a bot match, since they usually end so quickly). Maybe I should start playing FV. I could try Spectre again.
You seemed to follow the old joke which goes like

"What time does Anti-Mage stop farming?"

"3AM"

Spoiler
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Romanticide
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http://www.dota2.com/international/overview/

Just leaving this here.

I'll probably be watching the newcomers broadcast most of the time for obvious reasons. This is a great idea. I'd like to be able to put the multicast and the newcomers broadcast on separate screens, that'd be a pretty sweet way to watch this shit.
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Olinea
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No finesse
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As a followup, http://www.dota2.com/international/overview/

Starting Tuesday the 8th we'll be getting a straight 6 days of playing, then the main event runs the 18th - 21st.

I need to double-check if non-Compendium owners (which I think is just Darkie, Lightning, and I believe crocker) can still watch the games, because I believe they've said the games are able to be spectated in the client even if you don't have a Compendium, but I know the games will at least be streamed on Twitch - it'd just be cooler to be able to watch it all together in the client, probably using the SPV3 channel to talk about the game we're watching. You can also listen to live broadcasts in the middle of the game which is cool, different from coaching or spectating in that you can listen to professional casters with that kind of insight. Never done anything like that. In any case I'd definitely like to tune in during a good portion of the event, hopefully others will be there to watch as well. Could learn stuff to help our game.
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Olinea
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No finesse
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Ohhh ghost, looks like you didn't even need that WiiU after all
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tfghost92
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swag on this dick, bitches
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http://www.dota2.com/international/watch/July9/



Posted Image


I am excited for this match. Friday at noon.
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tfghost92
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swag on this dick, bitches
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Silencer
Naga Siren
Lycan
Magnus
Shadow Fiend
Puck
Brewmaster
Dark Seer
Batrider
Undying



what do all these heroes have in common? aside from Oli, none of us know them extensively. I am going to learn these guys and add them to my hero pool for our CM games. I feel we're missing out on a lot of great team comps because we do not play these heroes or practice them much. I am the only one of us I've ever seen actually play Lycan, and Puck I've seen, but ider who Pucked before and clearly there were no memorable games with him in it. The rest I simply don't see any of you play ever. Especially Magnus and Undying.

besides, a lot of these are not mids and I need to learn some more of those guys :P
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LightningBolt
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I can play Silencer fine, and Darkie can play Puck. None of us play the others, though.
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cscrocker
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Speaking of Undying, I have been playing as this guy a lot recently. Turns out I have a thing for tanky heroes who can do tons of damage in teamfights. I also have played as Lycan before in a pub once. I am still working on my Silencer, Dark Seer, and Naga Siren. Gonna practice as them eventually.
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DarkFlashlight
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it will take a toll
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Ghost
 
besides, a lot of these are not mids

Silencer (Can mid)
Naga Siren
Lycan
Magnus (Mid)
Shadow Fiend (Mid)
Puck (Mid)
Brewmaster (Mid)
Dark Seer
Batrider (Mid)
Undying




Ghost
 
ider who Pucked before and clearly there were no memorable games with him in it

BITCH.
BITCH.
BITCH.
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Snowman
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Four of us (me, Oli, Darkie, Lightning) have Silencer listed as "comfortable" on the spreadsheet. Also, I have Shadow Fiend at "doable" because I'm not uncomfortable playing him, but I do still mess up his Q/W/E sometimes because of turn speed and not always eyeballing the range correctly. Did you maybe mean Shadow Demon? 'cause none of us ever play SD, but I think I've seen SD a couple times in the few TI4 games I've watched. I haven't played the rest of your list very much. I've played Batrider and Puck a few times each, but I don't think I've played Puck in a pub, and I haven't played Batrider very well in pubs.
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Olinea
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I've squeezed Naga into comps on more than one occasion, watching BurNing work his magic yesterday was probably a good lesson on what to do with Naga to be effective but we've picked it for Darkie and Crocker on occasion. Dwest plays Magnus and imo he does it well - he landed an early solo kill on Weaver and he knows the strength of Magnus's ult well - we just never stick him on the hero, and I don't know if he enjoys Magnus all that much, but I like fitting the hero into comps and I definitely trust dwest on it. Darkie definitely had stints with Puck probably 2 months ago and he really likes the hero, I'm pretty sure I drafted him Puck about a week ago when we rematched the fountain campers and he held a lane against OD who craps on basically every Intel mid laner. Dark Seer I love, and offlane DS is pretty easy because you just Ion Shell the second melee creep in the line (the first creep in the line will take aggro when the creeps meet so you Shell the second one since it dies much slower) and it farms for you, and just escape ganks with Surge. I think Lightning and Darkie both enjoy Silencer, I feel comfortable picking him for either.

SF, Lycan, Brew, Bat, Undying are.. yeah, undeveloped imo. My list of heroes I think we can't currently fit into a comp without being picked by me (and in some case/s I wouldn't even pick for myself) are:

Beastmaster
Clockwerk
Brewmaster Gil's Brewmaster is right up there with his Drow, but he never plays anymore
Io
Centaur
Doom
Lycan
Undying

Mirana
Phantom Lancer
Lone Druid
Shadow Fiend
Meepo
Nyx

Storm Spirit
Tinker
Nature's Prophet
Chen
Queen of Pain
Dark Seer
Batrider
Invoker
Shadow Demon



Most, if not all, of those heroes have just some level of complexity or finesse that I don't think is there yet. And, to be fair, a good number of these are also people I'm not fully comfortable with myself - but I think it's much easier to say you're comfortable with someone like Viper after 2-3 games but can't be comfortable with, say, Shadow Demon after the same amount of playtime.

In addition, all of the heroes you outlined, with the exception of Undying and to some degree Dark Seer, are reliant on being able to quickly farm up core items like Blink Dagger for Magnus/Puck/Brewmaster/Batrider, Radiance/Diffusal for Naga, Force Staff/Orchid for Silencer, and just general last-hitting on Shadow Fiend. To be straight-up your farming game is inconsistent and it hurts you. In the span of, like, a day you ranged from 141 last-hits on Lycan in 49 minutes to EIGHT last hits on Skywrath. 30 last hits on Pugna in 45 minutes. 21 last hits on Skywrath in 35 minutes. 10 last hits on Pudge in 37 minutes.

It's cherry-picking, sure - you have better performances than those (216 last hits on Huskar in 78 minutes) but if you cannot farm then you're not going to succeed on these heroes. Like your Pugna game - 30 last hits, at... what, 45 gold per last hit ends up being about 1350 gold, which isn't even enough to cover the cost of your Arcane Boots. All other income for actual damage/utility items is coming from either kills/assists, tower kills, passive gold gain, and the odd Roshan - which seems like it's working a lot in your favor, but averaging less than 1 creep per minute means you are not finding farm in the midgame and you are definitely not getting the almost free farm you get in the early game. During laning, 4 creeps spawn per 30 seconds - if you get 8 last hits on Skywrath in a game going over a half hour, some other player could have made that money in one minute and put it to use. The money is there and it's your absolute best source of gold, and if you can't get it then you can't perform the duties a hero like Magnus or Batrider is expected to bring to the table when drafted and it hurts the team. If I draft you Shadow Fiend and you can't last-hit to secure souls then you lose out on your W and you lose out on your ult, and you're just a hero with a few Shadowrazes and an armor-reducing aura - and in that case I'd just draft Zeus because he can fire off Lightning Bolts at about the same rate and actually has an ult.

I'm all for expanding the hero pool of everyone here, because it means we can do more creative and expansive strategies, but playing a core hero comes with expectations - chiefly that you'll be able to find and secure the farm your hero needs and can get. You need to improve on that before I would be comfortable drafting you a lot of the heroes listed. It's a skill that takes constant developing - no player, not even professionals who play this game for double-digit hours of the day every day, will be able to last-hit every creep under no pressure, and laning is much different from timing last-hits in a vacuum. But landing a rate of 1 creep per minute, or worse, is really bad and it means you can do a lot of damage to your team. Take Darkie's Puck match from 10 days ago. 44 last-hits in 36 minutes is only marginally better, but it had an impact of heavily delaying his Blink Dagger which meant he couldn't be the mobile, playmaking Puck their team needed to make space for PA to farm. One of his legendary Medusa games - averaging about two last hits per minute (73 * 45 = 3285, like 60% of the cost of Linken's which is the first item you buy on her) on what amounted to basically the only lategame our team had. Lighting - 34 last hits in 34 minutes on Spirit Breaker, and the hero's job is to run around killing shit so he needs items. Even I'm not exempt from criticism on this front either - 26 last hits on Bounty Hunter in 32 minutes in a solo lane against Bristleback (no offlane 1v3 shenanigans where I had to wait for creeps to come to me) - I terrorized their team and still found no farm whatsoever despite going 16-5 - hell, you outfarmed me there. The difference is that we can find farm where we need it, and during laning we land the last-hits and make the money we need to keep snowballing. Dotabuff isn't reliable as far as outlining when most of the last-hits were made - i.e. did you last-hit well but get farm stolen from you, or have bad farming habits early but found it later on when you were clearing waves from pushes - but when your numbers are consistently low it impacts your ability to be one of the players we rely on later in the game. It's hard to point to a game and say "if you had farmed better you would have been able to X", especially when all you have to look at is an endgame stat screen, but the point I'm trying to drive home is that your farming game needs to improve - not just for these heroes who really need their core items to function, but in general.
Edited by Olinea, Jul 11 2014, 08:42 PM.
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