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| Dota 2 Weekend!; CAUSE YEAH | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 12 2014, 02:32 AM (18,073 Views) | |
| tfghost92 | Jul 21 2014, 10:37 PM Post #301 |
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swag on this dick, bitches
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There are a lot of things I've been learning since TI4 about how to get ahead with gold and experience, like reliable gold vs unreliable gold (i had no idea there was such a thing), how to gank and when, stacking camps and remembering to farm camps when its time to, especially ancient camps, carrying a TP scroll on you at all times (now that I learned this one, I usually always do it), how to purchase starting items and progess as you get further into the game, the imporance of strength agility and intelligence, knowing when to back off your lane or to give up on getting that last hit on the fleeing enemy (which breaks my heart but I have died too many times trying to do this), and many more. I feel like playing a lot of Luna, Lycan, and a bit of Lone Druid has taught me the basics on how to jungle properly, and I might be ready to take it to the next level by trying out Enigma and Chen again, whom I had terrible experiences with in the past. But anyways, I feel if I can properly learn all the stuff I mentioned earlier, I can finally take that leap into the next level, to say. EDIT something else I am beginning to learn is that, and I talked to oli about this before andhe agreed, but that if I am a support, I do NOT need to stand in my assigned lane for the first 15 minutes doing nothing. Farming, gank especially, are good viable options. I need to learn that because when I play Progre Magi or Sand King for example, I just stay in lane and those two both have gank potential, especially after 6 Edited by tfghost92, Jul 21 2014, 10:41 PM.
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| dwestfan13 | Jul 22 2014, 12:54 AM Post #302 |
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Feeder
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Yeah, I really didn't get to watch enough of that due to my schedule so I didn't really learn much of anything. I have the urge to play again though so I'm not ready to give it up yet.
Edited by dwestfan13, Jul 22 2014, 12:55 AM.
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| steelfire81 | Jul 22 2014, 01:59 AM Post #303 |
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Scrub
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I'm not sure how many of you guys paid attention to TI4 but I haven't been by here in a while and I feel the need to type out a long pointless post (spoilered in case you haven't watched the finals yet and want to watch the VOD). TI4 THOUGHTS
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| LightningBolt | Jul 22 2014, 02:08 AM Post #304 |
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Boring Person
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Yeah your thoughts are similar to what I've been seeing elsewhere. I feel like nerfs to Exorcism, Mass Serpent Ward, and Howl are some obvious changes in some form, whether it be increasing cooldown or just decreasing their power, but every time I've seen someone suggest this it's usually countered with "icefrog doesn't nerf strengths, he makes the weaknesses more apparent" so I dunno. |
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| tfghost92 | Jul 22 2014, 02:29 AM Post #305 |
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swag on this dick, bitches
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watch some of the game replays on dota 2's watch section. they have the shoutcast commentary too so you can listen to the noob stream and learn some stuff |
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| Olinea | Jul 22 2014, 03:02 AM Post #306 |
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No finesse
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Nerfs are also rarely in the form of flat decreases to damage, or at least across the board. Just off the top of my head, the number of most evident nerfs to Exorcism I could think of: ~Damage decrease ~Cooldown increase ~Spirit 'movespeed' ~Mana cost increase ~Duration decrease ~Number of spirits decreased ~Spirits no longer ignore damage block ~Nerf to heal to DP afterwards In addition, nerfs could come to DP's base stats (either base numbers or stat gain per level), starting armor, movespeed (kinda rare), attack range, initial mana pool. She wasn't really a high-value pickup throughout the tournament, I know Mushi liked her and a few others did as well but I think it's just us who get smashed by her : p Big heroes this patch were Lycan (seriously, I don't know if anyone's ever attracted more firstbans, including Batrider), Doom, Brewmaster. Hell, Skywrath rose to prominence because his silence is one of the few ways of shutting Brewmaster down so hard. Doom needs a beating with the nerfbat. He can generate gold from nothing just by repeated Q use, and while his ult is a giant 'fuck you' I don't think it's the root cause of his power. You stick him into a team and he WILL find farm, almost guaranteed. Lycan is ridiculous. One suggested change I thought seemed reasonable was changing Howl to be from a global ability to AoE, which would require him to be near his wolves as he buffs them instead of sending out roaming wolves/Necrobook units and just buffing them at a moment's notice. It makes his play more committal in that regard, and also stops his ability to buff his teammates unless he's actually fighting with them. Not that I think it'd change the style of the hero from 'annoying rat' to 'aggressive teamfight carry', but it'd reduce the kind of impact he has on teamfights while he pushes your T3s. Brew idk what to even do with. Having played him last night (granted, against Invoker who did little to pressure me) he's stupidly strong and his use in TI4 illustrated his potential for teamfight control. Bulky, anti-carry abilities (well, pre-MKB), strong CC, and hard to keep down. I think he's more of a Flavor of the Month hero though and I don't think he really deserves nerfs. I'm really interested in what the new patch will bring. Every time one gets released it feels like the game gets turned upside-down. |
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| dwestfan13 | Jul 22 2014, 08:37 AM Post #307 |
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Feeder
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Holy fuck, you guys are on a massive winning streak! Keep it up! |
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| Romanticide | Jul 22 2014, 06:31 PM Post #308 |
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Cult Leader
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General TI4 thoughts and such. I enjoyed watching TI4, but yeah, the finals were all stomps and that made those matches pretty boring to watch. There's something to be said for total dominance, but I'd have liked it if the series went to 5/featured at least one close match/both. This series had no drama; every game felt like it was clearly over by the ten minute mark, though I guess that might be hindsight talking. If it's not hindsight it might have had to do with their drafts. Once a team fell behind they just declared gg, probably because their draft gave them no way to come back. The same heroes got picked or banned over and over again. Good things in any meta will get chosen over the bad ones, but you could almost count on seeing Brewmaster, Skywrath Mage, Shadow Shaman, Doom, amongst others, either picked or banned. I would have liked to see different strategies/picks, like the Ursa Steel mentioned. This, not coincidentally, was one of the most fun games I saw during TI4 IMO. I enjoyed seeing an unorthodox (based on what I saw) strategy work out for EG. I don't think I'll ever get to a level where I have to play certain heroes because that's the current meta or be relegated to losing (or making it far harder on the team, anyway), so I suppose that's a plus. The noob stream was and still is a great idea, but there are only so many times I can hear about the same items, heroes, and so on. I should have stopped watching that earlier than I did; it got redundant for me after a few matches. There were also a lot of things I noticed that I could do to improve my game. We probably all noticed stuff we could do to step up our own games, but in my case it likely feels a lot more basic because I haven't played as much. I know I mentioned this in the chat, but I was appreciative of the warding discussion the noob stream had on day 1/2 or so. I've always had a problem with warding because I don't know where to ward outside of the super duper obvious marked spots, so hearing about that and seeing pros ward was helpful to me. Seeing pulling and stacking camps was also helpful. I felt like they rotated a lot more than I've seen us rotate, too, which gave them a numerical advantage and helped set up ganks. It's one thing to see something and another to do it, so I'll probably practice stuff like this against bots whenever I feel like playing to get the basic mechanics down. They're also a lot smarter about aggression, which is probably my biggest weakness as a player. That isn't something I can improve by watching anyone; it's something that comes with playing and gaining more experience with the game. All this said, idk when I'll play next. Not because I don't like the game or anything, more so because I tend to focus on one game/show/whatever until it's finished. I've always been single-minded. |
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| DarkFlashlight | Jul 22 2014, 08:45 PM Post #309 |
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it will take a toll
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We've been on such a winstreak that I went to calculate how many more games I would need to reach 50% winrate. I've done this once before, and that equation was still in my calculator. Last time I did it, I was 36/111 (32%). Now I'm 101/232 (43.5%). Winrate between the first point (which I'll consider when we stopped sucking) and now is 65/121 (53.7%). So we're totally moving up. The answer is 30. 30 more wins (with no losses) to hit 50%. FOR THE WINSTREAK. |
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| tfghost92 | Jul 22 2014, 09:02 PM Post #310 |
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swag on this dick, bitches
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first time as Anti Mage, I did nothing but LH in lane as much as posdible to buy battle fury. I farmed for nothing but Battle Fury. no boots or anything. I got my Battle fury in 18 minutes and 43 seconds. is this normal???? that is so long EDIT Manta Style and Power treads by 29 minutes EDIT 2 Butterfly by 38 minutes Edited by tfghost92, Jul 22 2014, 09:25 PM.
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| DarkFlashlight | Jul 22 2014, 10:43 PM Post #311 |
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it will take a toll
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It's probably not a good idea to pass on boots. In bots it won't matter, but in a real game, if you got ganked pre-9 (when you usually max Blink and get a 5 second CD), you'll probably die. You'll only be able to get one blink off, the distance of which can easily be negated by any stun. Then they catch you and you can't run away because you still have base movement speed. If you die, you'll lose all that unreliable gold which will set you way back. I'd say boots/treads are a worthwhile investment. Treads will also make farming easier what with the bonus agility and damage. Battlefury rush (after boots and possibly a shield) is good on AM because it gives you regen to tank jungling and the cleave to clear them fast, and then you can just blink between camps for maximum efficiency. I went back and watched parts of my Anti-mage game yesterday to see what times I got stuff (which is by no means standard timing, this is just for comparison), and they were: 8 minute Treads 15 minute Battlefury 30 minute Manta 39 minute Abyssal 48 minute Heart And enough for buyback which wasn't used You can see where I fucked up pretty badly, after Bfury. Manta isn't that expensive and shouldn't have taken 15 minutes to get, considering I then managed to get Abyssal Blade, the most expensive item in the game (barring Dagon 5?), in 9 minutes. What happened in those 15 minutes is that I tried to join fights too soon and died, and then went off to farm solo and got ganked. How I managed the Abyssal was the opposite. I could actually join fights at that point, so I was getting kills/assists and then would blink off to the jungle and push the lane in the offtime. Your Battlefury time was fine considering you've basically never hard carried before, but ideally you'd get it at about the same time and also have like treads by that point. I wouldn't actually worry too much about when you get Battlefury as long as it's before the other team starts snowballing (or before like, 30 minutes; at that point you're probably too far behind to make much of a difference). Hard carries usually have a way of manipulating farm. AM's is insane attack speed + cleave from Battlefury, so once you get that, even if you're slow to get it, your farm rate is gonna pick way up. My Naga game yesterday took 24 minutes to get Radiance, which isn't really very good. Once I had it though, I managed to get 139 more gold PER MINUTE than the next richest person (who was also on our team; 173 more than the highest on the other team) which means I led in gold on our team by 8,000 (enough for Abyssal + buyback) and their team by 10,900 (which is just lol). Point being, even if you play AM in a pub and go against like a Huskar/Veno lane which totally fucks up your early farm, as long as you can make up for it later, you can still come back. You can't view records for practice bots, but if you happened to screenshot it or something, do you know how many LH's you had and how long the game was? I also talked about myself a lot here because I can explain my own play better than other people's, but for the best hard carrying any of us have ever done, see Oli's Spectre game. |
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| Olinea | Jul 22 2014, 10:44 PM Post #312 |
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No finesse
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My instinct tells me that's long. Let me do some math. Bfury is Broadsword + Claymore + Perseverance = 1200 + 1400 + 1750 = 4350 gold Passive gold gain gives you 100 gold per minute so that's 1800 (let's say 1875 for a more accurate but still round number). Assuming you didn't get any kills, deaths, or team tower/Rosh kills you're looking at 2475 gold from creep kills alone. 2475 / 18.75 = 132 GPM on the dot. That's about 3 creeps per minute when you assume they're ~45 gold each, probably on the higher side but if you assume they're worth less it means you last-hitted more creeps overall. Since 8 creeps spawn per minute (the number increases over time but for the sake of convenience we'll say it's 4 creeps spawning every 30 seconds) you've hit a bit lower than 37.5% of creeps - I assumed no catapults spawned. It seems rough on paper but this last-hitting didn't happen in a vacuum. Denies can happen and block you from gold. You might've gotten pushed in and had to fight the tower for last-hits (or worse, your support), or pushed too hard and couldn't farm under their tower. You could've gotten harassed out, and moving to and from the fountain means you aren't getting farm. You could've made an aggressive play and given up farm to assert dominance and make space. Stray abilities from a support or a ganking mid could've stolen CS. All in all it's entirely unreasonable to expect a carry to get every bit of farm available - in a 3-1-1 setting where you have control over lane equilibrium and are probably facing an offlaner who cannot easily pressure your farm I'd expect a higher success rate, but all in all the creeps are the most reliable form of gold you can get early on and it seems you netted yourself a nice number of them. The earliest farming is always the hardest, after Bfury you are a LOT better at clearing camps and are probably at a level where you can dart around more freely with Blink.
Except the part where I totally neglected BKB in favor of... probably woulda sold Diffusal for that. From what I remember, Sniper/SS couldn't pressure Lightning and me well enough, but as soon as Lightning went to roam mid because Veno was pushing the ever-loving shit out of QoP, they harassed me out a lot and I cheered when I got the Relic. I would be more inclined to call it 'good jungle farming', I joined a fair number of fights in the interim but most of that game was the ability of you 4 to hold off the 5 of them so I could get farmed up. I love Spectre as a farming hard carry because she can jump into a teamfight at a moment's notice, so it's not really ditching your team, but I didn't exactly push the advantage when I had it and we eventually lost. Edited by Olinea, Jul 22 2014, 10:51 PM.
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| tfghost92 | Jul 22 2014, 10:49 PM Post #313 |
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swag on this dick, bitches
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my game was practice bots, so it didn't record, but I remember that I had 217 LHs in a 55 minute game I think 55 minutes. I forget that. I also went 7-3-9 and yeah, i 100% passed up Treads. I went straight for Battlefury. I thought that was what you were supposed to do. Will do it differently next time and see what happens. |
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| tfghost92 | Jul 22 2014, 10:56 PM Post #314 |
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swag on this dick, bitches
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Posted Image these are the heroes I have remaining that I either never played, or did play before but was so early into my dota'ing that I didnt even have a clue how to play let alone play that hero. I counted 30 |
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| dwestfan13 | Jul 23 2014, 08:45 AM Post #315 |
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Feeder
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Leaning towards being done. I was not having fun. Being terrible and not having fun is incredibly frustrating. |
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