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| Dota 2 Weekend!; CAUSE YEAH | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 12 2014, 02:32 AM (18,056 Views) | |
| dwestfan13 | Dec 17 2014, 01:49 AM Post #556 |
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Feeder
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Also, I forgot to mention this, but Snowy gave me his permission to play non-supports more often. |
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| DarkFlashlight | Dec 22 2014, 09:56 AM Post #557 |
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it will take a toll
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Posted Image ON A ROLL |
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| dwestfan13 | Dec 22 2014, 10:14 AM Post #558 |
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Feeder
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Did you copy that from my page? |
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| LightningBolt | Dec 23 2014, 05:14 PM Post #559 |
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Boring Person
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This is a bit of a random topic, but how would you guys try to optimally build Medusa? It's something I tend to think about every now and then just because the hero probably has more items that are good on her than any other hero in the game. I see people build things like Linken's/Manta/Skadi and that just seems sub-optimal to me. Once you have all three of those items the game is going to be pretty late in considering that Linken's and Skadi are both 5000+ gold item and while Manta has a good buildup it's still going to be about 5000 itself. I think the problem with this kind of build is that it doesn't give you enough damage. I think in general I'd just leave the Manta out. While Manta gives you added survivability, I think Linken's and Skadi give you enough (probably more than you need) that adding Manta on top of it is just overkill and prolonging your huge team-wide damage output that you probably picked Medusa for in the first place. I think Medusa needs three things: flat HP, flat mana, and DPS. I think most people build the aforementioned stat items because they give all three of these things to some extent, but I think you can cover the HP and mana needs with an item or two. Skadi gives you +25 str and int along with the Point Booster giving you flat increases. Bloodstone would give you +500 HP and +400 mana with a huge mana regen. I don't think I would automatically get Linken's Sphere first since Skadi gives much better stats/tankiness and I'd only get it if the team's got a lot of disables. The regen's nice but Bloodstone is basically the same price and gives you better everything outside of the skill block (which is obviously big but not something that's going to be completely necessary every game). I think after you get the one or two tankiness items out you should be building as much DPS as possible which is oddly not something I see a lot of Medusa's do. Just like Daedalus/Mjollnir/MKB. I guess the issue I see with Medusa is that it seems really difficult to balance the tankiness and DPS with the hero. The aforementioned Linken/Manta/Skadi build is going to make you hard to take down but how much damage are you doing? I mean that's a lot of agility in there but you have +10 damage between all three of those items. The 60 agility between those items isn't going to give you the damage output that Medusa needs. Your split shots aren't going to be doing much damage. I think the main issue I have when doing theoretical builds in my mind is just doing an item progression that gives Medusa some kind of presence earlier than like 50 minutes. I'm just not sure what I'd build or how I'd build it to give her that. |
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| Olinea | Dec 23 2014, 09:00 PM Post #560 |
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No finesse
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I think Linken's is only bought as an early pickup on Dusa/Weaver because they need larger health pools and have survivability that makes BKB maybe not super optimal. If they have someone like Batrider, Doom, or someone that I feel threatened enough by to pick up Linken's, sure, I'll get that, but a first-item pickup like Daedalus/Manta helps you farm a lot faster than a defensive item like Linken's. Skadi is nice and all but there are few heroes I see it as a core item on, particularly not as a 1st-2nd item as it doesn't provide any specific bonuses that make it a necessity. I've heard of the rare Battle Fury Medusa because Perseverance is nice for her early on and if you aren't turning it into Linken's then the extra damage is a good slot-efficient upgrade but obviously it's not good to pay money for stats/effects you won't use (cleave) while playing farm-reliant heroes. Dusa's probably one of the better Rapier carries in the game, also including heroes like Kunkka, Weaver, WK (depends on enemy lineup and BKB), PA, Gyro, and Ember. I think a 6-slotted Medusa is incomplete without at least one Rapier because you will need stats to abuse Mana Shield and that means you're missing out on potential DPS by spending money on health&mana. Theoretically I like this build: Treads/BoT Rapier Daedalus Skadi Mjolnir/Butterfly/Manta/Heart Of course builds are situational - MKB, Linkens, etc. all have their definite perks, and Rapier is not for every game (plus this build is pretty risky). Dusa's strengths as a carry come from a few things: being able to onsistently attack multiple targets at once (Gyro is gated by a number of attacks + long cooldown), deceptive tankiness from Mana Shield, and the ability to peel people away from her with ult. Mana Shield's a strong ability but she's not someone like Necrophos who will do guaranteed damage just by staying alive - ignoring damage means you can be ignored, and your tankiness doesn't mean anything if you can't do anything with it. |
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| tfghost92 | Dec 23 2014, 09:29 PM Post #561 |
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swag on this dick, bitches
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When it comes to medusa, you need damage damage damage. her damage output is absolutely incredible and its one of the best in the game imo, next to Sven and some others but I won't go into all that. The way I see it, Medusa should always have an ultimate orb item in her build. Could be Skadi, or Linkens, or Manta (I'd likely not go sheepstick because wtf), but I think that is required of any good Medusa build. I remember doing Duas games where I built Mjollnir and it was kiiiiiiiiiinda fucking amazing. The way I see it, I'g roll with this build, in order: Treads -> Maelstrom -> Linkens/Skadi -> Mjollnir -> Daedalus -> Manta Style -> Heart/Rapier With this build, you pretty much get the whole hard carry package. Heart is unnecessary unless you're crapping gold, which is why its listed last |
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| DarkFlashlight | Dec 23 2014, 09:40 PM Post #562 |
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it will take a toll
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If you just said, "You have infinite gold, build a Medusa," assuming the other team doesn't have some specific obstacle I have to try to counter I would probably go: Bloodstone BoT Daedalus Manta Butterfly Rapier I think what you're forgetting about Manta is that they get Split Shot if you have it turned on when you activate it, which means you're putting out 400% damage (ignore Rapier for now) and you have two illusions each dealing 80% of 33% damage to 5 units at once, which is 264% damage extra. On top of your 400%. 664% damage, albeit not to any single target, is still significantly more than a PA crit on every single hit. And then factor in the real Medusa having +300 damage on every split arrow and it's just lol. Plus illusions get crit chance and evasion. The problem with that build is that there's no easy way to work up to it. I guess get Crystalys->Manta for farm and work into Butterfly, but that leaves you getting a late Bloodstone which isn't ideal. EDIT for correction, only melee units get 33% damage from Manta. Ranged is 28%, so it's actually 224% instead, and 624% total, which not that vastly different. Also, don't worry guys, I figured out how to break the curse. Posted Image Edited by DarkFlashlight, Dec 23 2014, 09:46 PM.
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| LightningBolt | Dec 24 2014, 06:20 AM Post #563 |
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Boring Person
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No I realized this, but it's not as great as your percentages are making it seem. |
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| Olinea | Dec 24 2014, 07:20 PM Post #564 |
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No finesse
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Holy shit You guys did NOT know how to build PA Edited by Olinea, Dec 24 2014, 07:21 PM.
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| dwestfan13 | Dec 25 2014, 04:06 AM Post #565 |
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Feeder
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I still don't. |
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| Olinea | Dec 28 2014, 07:59 PM Post #566 |
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No finesse
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After a pleasant and scholarly game of Cards Against Humanity last night we figured it's time to make a Cardcast deck of Dota-related terms to include when we play CAH. Card ideas would be much appreciated since we need a lot of them. |
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| Snowman | Dec 28 2014, 08:09 PM Post #567 |
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Berserker
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it's not time yet |
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| dwestfan13 | Dec 28 2014, 08:58 PM Post #568 |
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Feeder
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i cant grow here |
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| tfghost92 | Dec 28 2014, 09:22 PM Post #569 |
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swag on this dick, bitches
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"creepskipping assholes" |
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| Olinea | Dec 29 2014, 07:30 PM Post #570 |
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No finesse
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This is like Fuck/Kill/Marry but it's called Buff/Nerf/Delete. Do it for your 3 most played heroes. Buff Rubick. Telekinesis is strong early on, sure, but he doesn't quite have much he can do before getting ult. Null Field often hardly feels worth putting points since it doesn't have a super noticeable benefit - could be worth leveling second but getting it at 10/12/13/14 is probably too late. He has a really fun niche with the spellstealing and I've grown attached to his voice and personality, so I'd rather not delete him. Nerf Tinker. That dude is still ridiculously strong/broken and as much as I love the Blink --> Dagon build he's incredibly flexible and if there was a way to quell that build and get a little more innovative it'd be nice for raising the skillcap of decision-making instead of the cookie cutter build. But Laser trashes lanes and March is basically going to kill anyone that wanders through it. I think Tinker's still way too strong. Delete Earth Spirit. He's fun but the concept of the hero in general means I don't think he'll ever be balanced. He has so many repositions for himself and others, a stun/slow/silence, craploads of damage with ult, Aghs upgrade is stupidly good for isolating a target or saving them, etc. His only real weakness is a Silence I guess and that's not really a unique weakness. Not healthy for the game as he stands right now. |
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