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| Topic Started: Feb 12 2014, 02:32 AM (18,036 Views) | |
| LightningBolt | Jun 7 2015, 06:32 AM Post #856 |
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Boring Person
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I really do recommend going Armlet first on him. I realize you like regen, but you just toggle it in short bursts when you're fighting early. Chaos Knight is only going to work if you're killing things early in the game because he's lousy at farming creeps. I'm not exaggerating when I say he's the single worst farming carry in the game. An Armlet is going to let him fight a lot earlier than going Mask of Madness or Manta Style first will. |
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| dwestfan13 | Jun 7 2015, 06:58 AM Post #857 |
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Maybe next time we could try a trilane with CK/KotL/Disruptor to get you early kills. KotL for mana because CK and his mana problems are real and Disruptor for the ring/glimpse. |
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| Olinea | Jun 7 2015, 10:08 AM Post #858 |
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No finesse
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I feel like that trilane still lacks the damage necessary to take advantage of the CK stun. He doesn't provide a lot of it early on but the stun duration usually lets teammates pile it on. Kotl/Disruptor I wouldn't expect to do that. CK/AA is a classic lane combo (you'll basically always proc cold feet) and I could see AA in place of Disruptor there. To be honest my first thought was "Scrap Kotl and just buy a Soul Ring" since CK will never use mana as fast as Kotl can provide it. You could give CK a Wisp buddy since he's one of the best pairings with the hero (and now you can pawn off the Soul Ring purchase on the Wisp), I like CK/Wisp/AA but now you need someone else in the team who can clear pushes properly because lord knows none of them can. Tinker would leave CK too starved, I feel, so idk. It's more of a stylistic difference, I feel, since Kotl/Disruptor isn't a bad support pairing for him by any means. Edited by Olinea, Jun 7 2015, 11:15 AM.
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| dwestfan13 | Jun 7 2015, 11:37 AM Post #859 |
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I think like you just hate KotL =P Lightning and I did a WK/KotL lane and it was just filthy. Constant stuns everywhere. I feel like CK could do the same thing.
Edited by dwestfan13, Jun 7 2015, 11:37 AM.
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| Olinea | Jun 7 2015, 12:49 PM Post #860 |
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No finesse
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I pretty openly admit it yeah : p Mostly I view Kotl as a hero that does 2 things: provides mana, and clears waves like a motherfucker. I know Mana Leak is probably his best skill but that's about all he can contribute to a skirmish and other heroes can provide more to a skirmish or single-target pickoffs, and i doubt many people pick him primarily because of that ability. Obviously stealing farm is a bad thing on a hero that's probably one of the most item - independent heroes in the game but that's more the sign of a novice Kotl or a poorly made teamcomp. The niche of "mana battery" also can come from CM or Wisp. I just happen to really like Wisp as a hero and I think CK is one of the top 3 pairings with him (obviously Tiny, and I think Wisp/Ursa is underrated). Like I said, it's stylistic. Kotl's not a bad hero but he's just not my style. With Wisp/AA you have a LOT more global pressure which is just a different aim of the team's job. CK/Disruptor/KotL wants to be perpetually ready to get kills, CK/Wisp/AA is able to make cross-map kills in the midgame if played properly (the skillcap is obviously higher with the AA snipes and Wisp decision-making) but trades off in the 5v5/teamfights department. After two superb games with the hero and more frequent Skype use I'm finding myself a lot more receptive to Wisp in general. After I wrap up my last 10-hero challenge I do want to work on my Wisp (apologies in advance) when we have a suitable partner for it. If someone wants to practice Wisp/Ursa Level 1 Roshan shenanigans with me I would be happy as a clam. KotL just isn't one of those heroes I think I could enjoy playing a lot. I used to love him a long time ago but this was back when you could give items to teammates so I'd just take him mid and spam Illuminate and load up my Troll or Anti-Mage or whoever with like 10k gold's worth of items and proceed to sit in fountain pushing lanes with his ult (used to summon... ironically, a wisp that could teleport around the map globally, made an army of summons to just push the shit out of everything). Then I found out my pooled teammate was like 0-10 before I knew it and we would lose. Current KotL... I'd just rather play other heroes. When it comes to theorycrafting we all tend to suggest the best comp as using heroes we personally enjoy playing. Man I miss pooling items. Once my brother and I came across a Slardar who yelled at us all game so we each saved up the money to buy Rapiers (mid KotL and jungle DS) and give them to him, then my brother bought Shadow Blade and Recalled the Slardar into 5 of them so he dropped the rapiers and we yelled at him. Good stuff. Sometimes I miss DotA "permanent low prio" Allstars. Sorry for the rambling we have nothing left to do at work today and I have to kill another hour ughhhhh |
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| dwestfan13 | Jun 7 2015, 01:24 PM Post #861 |
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I guess my thing with KotL is that I feel he's the perfect pairing for somebody with a high-usage skill but a low mana pool. In that regard, he's fairly niche, I guess. I also think part of why I enjoy playing him is that he makes me feel useful even if I'm having a poor game. I can always just give somebody mana lol. I should probably try Wisp more but that's a far higher-skill Hero than I'm comfortable with at this time. I'm just now starting to get slightly comfortable with some lower-skill Heroes that I rarely play. I mean, you saw my Tinker, it's not good. Imagine me playing Wisp where, on a whim, I can grab an important carry and immediately get them killed. Not the best idea. |
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| LightningBolt | Jun 7 2015, 02:03 PM Post #862 |
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Boring Person
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That KotL/WK lane was amazing. RIP Phantom Assassin |
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| Olinea | Jun 7 2015, 02:38 PM Post #863 |
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No finesse
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I think hero difficulty comes in multiple varieties but the big two are mechanical ability and decision-making. We all know some of the most basic heroes - Lich, Ogre, Viper, WK, etc. These heroes are simple since there's only one way to use their abilities so there's a low mechanical difficulty to them and there's a low decision-making difficulty. But take heroes like Tinker, Meepo, Invoker. Certainly difficult heroes, because the hero has so many options to use at once. Invoker being pressured needs to be able to mash QQWRD (QQWRWWWD if youre really good) to Ghost Walk away, and maybe be prepared to load up QWWRD, QQERD or QWERD if he's detected and needs a second out. Meepo idefk that hero is a walking disaster. I guess the simplest combo is Q-Click-W-Click-Tab-W-Click-Tab-W-Click-etc. to pin a target and Poof burst them. That's what I'd call mechanical ability, being able to rapidly call upon skills on a hero with a lot of them. The examples I listed are the most obvious examples but a lot of heroes take precisison in their ability use - a tricky TA, Morph, Ember, Earth Spirit, etc. More physical than mental, I think. Heroes that have high levels of decision-making to play properly would be heroes like Wisp, Techies, NP, Huskar. A beginner with these heroes can still be more effective than someone asking "wait how does this Invoker dude work". Someone using Techies for the first time can still place mines and blow shit up, a new Huskar can still dive in and heavily pressure a target, an inexperienced Wisp can still Relocate his target to the fountain for healing or dump them off in another lane or whatever. But what these heroes take is finesse because they have options and it may not always be evident what to do. Shadow Demon can Q an important enemy or pull a save by removing a teammate to buy them time. A great Techies can analyze game flow and predict points his opponents will try to control or contest, or spend his precious mana to clear out waves rather than stacking remotes hoping they push that lane. Huskar can pick his battles where he's able to be at low health rather than dead. And while Wisp takes some mechanical ability in W usage, we all know that a major aspect of the difficulty in the hero lies in its inherent lack of survival. Wisp played to a high level of finesse needs to constantly stay at a level of health where it can feed regeneration to a target, it needs to be just far enough away that it can't easily be picked off, but it needs to play boldly and utilize Relocate's power to pressure opponents. Wisp partners are aggressive heroes who appreciate being fed the health and mana and who can benefit from being provided global pressure in the form of heavy split pushing or ganking. If Wisp is designed to have its Tether buddy enhanced by its abilities, it needs to work with its carry by looking for aggressive global opportunities rather than playing scared because of its frailty. That's definitely more of a mental game, where stretching the hero to its limits requires you to ask "what is the best move right now" and not being able to just say "press Q and hope for multicast I guess". Those are the heroes I like playing, because I hate playing a hero like Lich or whatever where your abilities are really only used in one way so you can't respond to as many situations that arise. You'll make wrong decisions. Everyone makes wrong decisions in every game we play. Sometimes that shit is costly but sometimes you don't make the wrong decision, you pull off a spectacular feat and yell "PLAYS SON" (maybe just me) and I live for that shit when I play this game. Successful Relocate ganks, clutch saves, skirting death and still feeding stuff to your carry, what have you - Wisp is exciting. I could honestly care less if I get Relocated to my death as long as it isn't intentionally spiteful or whatever. I can laugh off a bad gank and say "welp that sucks". I'd rather my Wisp fail by doing bad ganks than have him do no ganks. Edited by Olinea, Jun 7 2015, 04:18 PM.
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| tfghost92 | Jun 8 2015, 12:40 AM Post #864 |
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swag on this dick, bitches
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| DarkFlashlight | Jun 8 2015, 12:53 AM Post #865 |
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it will take a toll
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http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/548800002 oblivion staff: doesn't matter still better than dwest's build dispersion level 1: doesn't matter still 6.8 KDA fewest last hits: doesn't matter still won also kudos to Ro for figuring out the Slahser build a year in advance |
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| DarkFlashlight | Jun 8 2015, 01:24 AM Post #866 |
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it will take a toll
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Inspired by the mighty Oblivion Staff Spectre, I went through my old games to find my best builds from the bot days. Behold: Tranq, Oblivion Staff, Radiance, Atos Sniper Mek CK Orchid PA Oblivion Staff Riki* Blademail Lina Soul Booster Slark Crystalys PA Deso/Agh's Void *I actually did Orchid Riki like three days ago, but that was against Storm/AM, and I have no doubt I wasn't going for Orchid in the first game. |
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| dwestfan13 | Jun 8 2015, 01:42 AM Post #867 |
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Dual boots Abaddon is totally legit though. And I'm assuming I was going HoT with the Reader which totally makes sense. Why u gotta b hatin?
Edited by dwestfan13, Jun 8 2015, 01:43 AM.
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| Olinea | Jun 8 2015, 03:30 AM Post #868 |
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No finesse
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Ooh ooh let's see: Drunk game Drunk game Drunk game Must've been sobering up because I remember jungling Undying Knew as soon as I saw this one we had gotten stomped badly A precursor to the best build in the world And yes, it works in real matches too Almost there THERE we go (pay no attention to the loss) |
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| dwestfan13 | Jun 8 2015, 04:30 AM Post #869 |
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Nothing quite like reliving horrible, horrible memories. I'm gonna be playing Pudge and Puck again soon. |
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| Olinea | Jun 8 2015, 01:56 PM Post #870 |
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No finesse
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Posted Image dat feel when ur so sick of a hero that u decide "fuck it we'll play 3v5" and u get 32 kills and 42k HD and 11.5k TD WE DONEZO WITH THE 10-HERO CHALLENGE THANKS TO EVERYONE NOW BACK TO PLAYING HEROES THAT ARE ACTUALLY FUN |
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