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| Dota 2 Weekend!; CAUSE YEAH | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 12 2014, 02:32 AM (18,087 Views) | |
| dwestfan13 | Apr 22 2014, 04:15 PM Post #91 |
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Feeder
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I just know that I, personally, cannot be bothered to deal with those assholes. I'm playing the game for fun, not to get bitched at by some fuckface. That kind of stuff kills all my enjoyment of a game immediately. My favorite games are when we have 5+ of us because then it's just a group of friends having fun. I dunno if that makes sense but that's more or less how I feel. Plus, going to pubs would destroy my chances of learning new Heroes and whatnot since I would feel obligated to use the Heroes I'm already somewhat familiar with so I wouldn't end up throwing the match. With bots, I can learn new shit at my own pace because the odds are that you guys will make up for my (potentially) shitty game. |
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| steelfire81 | Apr 23 2014, 01:14 AM Post #92 |
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Scrub
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It's perfectly fine to think pubs are full of angry players who will flame you at the first mistake you make because it's true. There are plenty of really angry players in pubs and I've met my share of people who are total assholes. Most recently I played with a Crystal Maiden who said nothing until about the 45 minute mark where the guy started flaming me and the Faceless Void (a friend) for our item choices while saying we should have ended the game much earlier, all because we lost one teamfight. And this was a game we were winning pretty easily (that teamfight was probably the only one we lost all game). People are going to get mad and that's a fact. My advice for dealing with them is open up the scoreboard, mute them, and report them. There is another side to that though. In the same exact game, the Keeper of the Light was one of the coolest people I've ever met in Dota. He and I were making jokes all game and having an awesome time. Whenever I made mistakes and apologized he would say no problem, and vice-versa. There are plenty of awesome people you meet in game as well. If the thought of playing with random angry people is what's keeping you out of pubs, you can try to get a stack together whenever you play and avoid solo queue. Don't be ashamed about that. If you want, you can go on Dotabuff and look through my history and try to find the last game I queued without a friend. Honestly, I can't remember solo queuing any time since last September. There was also a period when I refused to play anything outside of a 5 stack. Playing with friends makes the game much more fun and reduces your chances of dealing with assholes. If you guys ever wanted I could watch your guys' replays or coach. Oli would probably be better as a teacher since he knows you guys a bit better but I'd be more than happy to help. The reason I made the post actually is because I talked to one of the people I normally play with (who's far more experienced than me) and he said that me playing with you guys probably isn't a good way for you guys to learn, which I would agree with. I'd be more than happy to fill in a 5th spot if you ever needed a complete stack, but review would probably be a better way of helping you guys. As for dancing around criticism, I'll apologize for that and I won't do it in the future. It doesn't do you guys any good while at the same time sounding a bit unintentionally condescending and rude. If I do it again you have my permission to yell at me and call me out. I'd also like to clarify that my post was not made out of anger or frustration. You guys are pretty much doing what I did when I was brand new to the game and it's a difficult game to learn. From now on I'll make sure to actually give you good criticism to make the learning a bit easier. Lastly, I will confirm that people who instalock Pudge are usually pretty angry. You could also throw Spirit Breaker and Riki onto that list. That being said all three of those heroes are actually fun and worth learning. |
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| DarkFlashlight | Apr 23 2014, 02:21 AM Post #93 |
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it will take a toll
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To be fair, that CM carried your noob ass to victory with that 2-10. |
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| Snowman | Apr 23 2014, 03:11 AM Post #94 |
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Berserker
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I prefer pubs, I think. I don't care about being da best, but I would like to improve, and I feel like playing with people would force me to think more. When we play bots, I don't really think too much about what I'm doing unless I'm playing a new hero because I know we'll probably win anyway. With people, you just have to pay more attention 'cause you don't know what they're gonna do. They might be bad, but it's not like going into a bot game where we all probably have the mentality of "aight just gonna go in and win brb". I'm not very competitive, but I do feel like we should have a chance of losing when we go into games. Not just because we learn more that way, but also because they become more unpredictable, which makes them more interesting to me. |
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| DarkFlashlight | Apr 23 2014, 03:21 AM Post #95 |
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it will take a toll
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I like pubs more (as long as we don't get completely stomped) because bots games get really formulaic. As soon as you take one of the bots' base towers, you're going to win. I've never seen us lose in that case. Pubs are way more dynamic. Plus I love gankers, and the way bots play makes them really hard to gank. People don't do that stupid group-up-at-10-minutes-and-push-mid-the-rest-of-the-game thing. You also don't have to deal with having a Zeus/Viper/Sniper in every game. Just Pudge. Always. |
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| Romanticide | Apr 23 2014, 06:56 AM Post #96 |
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Cult Leader
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If we were to still play bot games, I'd probably recommend stepping up to hard sometime. Snow is right in saying that playing (medium) bots feels like an auto-win, even if you hit random hero. Even if I get someone I've never seen before, there are up to four others who could play well enough to compensate for the fact that I rolled someone I have no idea how to play. But yeah, I tried two games on hard. Won the first one, but I felt carried to victory. I can't say I contributed a whole lot outside of pushing the top lane. Lost the second one, but they had Lion/Jakiro to stun half our team (also Drow to silence) and then obliterate them. My team had nothing like that, so teamfights resulted in us getting stomped. It didn't help they roamed as a group of 5 for like half the game, either. Even though my Huskar was pretty strong, there wasn't a lot he could do 1v5. I guess what I'm saying is the hard bots pose a challenge. It's not like the medium to hard jump in GH we're all familiar with, but it's a jump. Medium probably still has its uses. We can roll random heroes without much fear of losing or something, thus we can focus on learning new heroes. I would personally like to play every hero at least once, even if that takes me another 100 hours of Dota to do. Idk maybe that's something I could do on my own time. (But again, too many other games.) As far as pubs go, I'd probably be willing to at least try them with some of you guys. I don't feel like I'd need a whole five stack, but at least one other person I know would be nice. I feel awkward around groups of people I don't know, which is somewhat mitigated by the internet, but this is a competitive setting, people want to win, etc. Watching replays or coaching us would be nice. I do agree with your friend. Even with Oli around, I sometimes feel like we're being carried by him because, well, he's better. Add you to the mix and bot games would become even bigger stompings than they already are. I love a good stomp every once in a while, especially after playing a frustrating game, but it's not going to help us learn the game. What would help is putting us in any kind of situation where we can lose and/or getting criticism from better players. Then again, sometimes it's nice being carried so you can just focus on learning the hero you randomed or learn how to support (I feel like we could all stand to work on our supporting, but someone's gotta play carries) or something. |
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| LightningBolt | Apr 23 2014, 02:51 PM Post #97 |
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Boring Person
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i dunno what y'all talkin' bout but we've gotten stomped by medium bots as recently as like four days ago when we random |
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| DarkFlashlight | Apr 23 2014, 09:20 PM Post #98 |
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it will take a toll
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Okay, but that was an abnormality. I was playing a support and fed like crazy, Dwest was a hero he already knew he was bad at, and Snow and Ro were both kind of out of their elements with their heroes (new or different etc.). Agree that we should step up to hard for bot games. I also think that people opposed to pubs should try one when we can get a 5-stack. Dwest and Ro at least definitely have enough experience to do fine. If it's exactly what you thought it was going to be, then you never need to do one again, but one match shouldn't ruin the whole game for you. The reason some of us push for pubs sometimes is because they're way more interesting. Even on the losing team, you typically get around level 16-18 (unless you get hilariously stomped, which doesn't happen that much), which is frequently higher than we get on the winning side against bots. That being said, I don't think we should pub if Ghost is in our group. Calling him out by name because he plays with us a lot now (which is why I say him instead of like, Outlaw/Shrike), but he's also new enough that I don't think he would have fun. He doesn't know how a lot of heroes work, which puts him at a huge disadvantage, and seriously, he'd probably die so much that it would just suck for him*. Basically the point in this was to say that I don't think any of us (or me at least) want to exclusively do pubs, we should just try more. I have a 179 hours and 13 real games. Strangely, I actually have played a pub with Ghost, so if you want to, I won't stop you. It's more of a warning that you might not enjoy it very much. *This is the point where Dwest goes, "I would just die too!" but it's really not true, assuming you play a character you know. You are better than Ghost (which isn't a bash on Ghost, Dwest just has way more experience), especially at not dying, which is way more important in pubs than bot matches, since bots don't know what pushing is apparently. |
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| Olinea | Apr 23 2014, 09:27 PM Post #99 |
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No finesse
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I'm assuming you mean the game where you/Darkie/dwest/Gil/Snow played Razor/WD/Tinker/SB/Treant? That's the game I wanted to review and I'll get a better opportunity to do that come Thursday afternoon/evening (possibly Friday). |
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| DarkFlashlight | Apr 23 2014, 09:37 PM Post #100 |
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it will take a toll
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Can my portion just be "Never play WD again"? EDIT: Also, I thought Dwest was Puck that game, which is why my last post said he was a hero he was bad at. Dwest has played Tinker before and did fine, so I am kind of curious as to what happened. Edited by DarkFlashlight, Apr 23 2014, 09:39 PM.
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| steelfire81 | Apr 23 2014, 09:50 PM Post #101 |
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Scrub
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This is probably the biggest difference between bots and humans. Humans almost never group up as 5 as regularly as bots do, and they certainly don't stick together as long as they do. Gankers (like Clinkz or Pudge) like to roam around and find solo heroes since they're easy gold. In bot games it's hard to find heroes farming by themselves past the 20 minute mark because they all group up and run around the map together. Humans will take advantage of the map and spread out and farm. Note that while it is easier to find solo kills against humans, you have to make sure not to let the other team spread out and farm for long. Everyone laughs at the five carry team, but if you let that five carry team gather gold freely for 30 minutes you're going to be begging for the game to end when they all leave their jungle and deathball towards your ancient.
One of the biggest things worth noting about the jump from medium to hard bots is that the hard bots start denying. The fact that they're bots too makes this almost harder than against people (at least at a beginner level). They're programmed to time things well, so bots like Viper who already last hit well suddenly start denying well too. By 15-20 minutes if you don't last hit well the bots will be getting their first items which lets them snowball out of control. While Viper bot is the spawn of Satan and will ruin your lane no matter what (personally I hate him with a passion), playing against people teaches you how to CS well and beat another person in lane. It takes a long time, but by seeing certain heroes' animations you start to learn when to go for that creep and how to keep the lane in your favor. And like what happened with Huskar against hard bots, being a lone farmed hero against 5 farmed enemies will often not end up well for you. This is another thing the hard bots don't let you get away with. The same goes for pubs. While hard carries like Faceless Void, Medusa, and Spectre can usually become six slotted and put the whole team on their backs, it takes a competent team to get them to that point (or an inattentive enemy team), the average snowballer like Huskar or Viper stops scaling after a certain point and then starts dying. Of course there are supports, and they will be understandably underfarmed, but they have abilities to fall back on. Edited by steelfire81, Apr 23 2014, 09:51 PM.
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| LightningBolt | Apr 24 2014, 02:05 AM Post #102 |
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Boring Person
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Yeah, that's the one. I don't really agree with Darkie here. I think, without you, if we were to all random we aren't going to safely beat down the bots most of the time on medium. |
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| Olinea | Apr 26 2014, 02:29 AM Post #103 |
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No finesse
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The Spring Cleaning update is set to drop soon, bringing a TON of bug fixes as well as the anticipated Patch 6.81. It'll be in your best interest to read through the notes when you get some time. Almost every hero has been changed in some way - most of these are buffs, but a few aren't. There are also anticipated releases of the Abyssal Underlord and Oracle soon, so stay tuned. |
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| Romanticide | Apr 26 2014, 02:37 AM Post #104 |
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Cult Leader
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I'm not going to act like I even understand a fair bit of this stuff, but... "'Grab All' on stash is now available while the hero is dead" "Added a prompt to the tutorial that lets users flip their HUD to show the minimap on the right (this setting can also be changed in Options)" "Meepo is no longer available in Ability Draft" Posted Image |
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| DarkFlashlight | Apr 26 2014, 05:01 AM Post #105 |
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it will take a toll
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I think our problem has switched from, "Pubs might have shitty people," to, "We will never win a pub ever." |
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