|Welcome to The Secret Project. All your IP are belong to us.|
Click this to register, but you're probably an user anyway because we do have any friends.
If you're already an member please log in to your account to access all of our features:
|Werewolf Guide (Incomplete); Because Marill asked me to.|
|Topic Started: Feb 15 2011, 10:21 PM (352 Views)|
|evilpacman18||Feb 15 2011, 10:21 PM Post #1|
Part 0. Intro
(0.I) I suck too
Welcome, everybody, to the GHC's Werewolf Guide. I'll try not to be too loquacious in single sections since there's about 30 to read. I can already tell that some sections will only require a few sentences where others will require paragraphs. I hope you'll bear with me. Anyway, I wanted this to be more of a group project than just mine but it didn't really turn out like that so this is pretty much all mine. I knew it was gonna happen and I've already had people say this whole thing in general is pretty elitist, but trust me, it's not. I'm still a pretty terrible player and don't see myself as being a better or smarter player than anybody else. If anything, I'm more knowledgeable than some of the players because I've played in more professional games on other sites but that certainly doesn't make me a better player.
Alright so... This is why we're here. Snowman was confirmed wolf twice and the town players still let him live because of a stupid claim that didn't make any sense. Generally, me, LightningBolt, Romanticide, dwest, or LAD wouldn't have let that happen but we were all dead and Romanticide wasn't playing. This got me thinking about a couple things.
1. Not enough people read the thread.
2. Not enough people care enough to play.
3. Not enough people understand the game theory.
So I'm doing this to hopefully fix number three hoping that if people understand the game better, it'll seem more fun to them and one and two will be fixed.
Part 1. Responsibilities
We'll start at the start. If you're gonna sign up, make sure you're gonna play. If you know you're going on vacation a week from when the game starts, just skip it. Make the next one. But we can't have people signing up and then disappearing. Commitment doesn't just involve posting frequently though. First of all there's the all-important rule: READ THE WHOLE THREAD. "I just got home from work and I'm too lazy to read, what happened?" can't be allowed to fly. We need everybody reading every single post if these are ever gonna work. Secondly, people need to think while they're playing. I'll go over this all in the later sections but the most important commitment rule is that people NEED to read the thread. If you're not willing to do it, just don't play. Mafia/Werewolf is designed to work fine with just a few people. Idk about others but I'd rather play with 8 or 9 people who want to play than with twenty when half don't care.
(1.II) Da Rules
We mods are actually pretty lenient on these. (See section 4.I) There's very few rules we enforce but they're still being broken way too often. The best example is the no posting in the thread once you're dead rule. I'm guilty of breaking this myself. The rules that mods lay out need to be followed because every mod has a reason for every role. If the mod says don't PM, just don't do it. It's not that hard not to do. Same goes for not posting in the thread, not spamming, how to bold your votes, etc. Just follow the rules. It's really frustrating when people don't, especially when there's no consequences for it. (See 4.VII)
This isn't too much of a section since I don't wanna take away from the how to play as town and scum sections. Basically, not only do you need to read the whole thread, you need to read the whole thread carefully. I think the problem here is that people treat this game with an "it's just a game" mentality that this game doesn't deserve. It's an inherently serious game that deserves much more attention than people give it. Committing to it means that you're committing to reading every post CAREFULLY since the point of the game is to understand the logic other people are using.
Will go into more detail in next two sections but generally, it's good netiquette to add a decent post to the thread at least once a day.
I said in 1.I, don't join the game if you have a long trip that you know you'll be gone for but if you have a Vacation or have Limited Access to the thread for a few days, just let the mod know you'll be gone and try to get back as soon as possible. Players who take a leave are responsible for reading everything they missed when they get back.
Part 2. Playing as town
Yay! The fun (imo) part is now.
Scumhunting doesn't need to be defined. It's obvious what it is. How you hunt for scum though is the tricky part. One of the most important things to no and the biggest thing this section will focus on is scumtells. Here's some common tells from the mafiascum.net wiki.
Congratulate the doctor on successful protection: Is scum or doctor (BBforky did this in VII)
Third person on a wagon is likely to be mafia (I've seen this and the next point many times)
Fourth person on a wagon is likely to be mafia
Admitting someone is a townie without saying "IF" (mafia knows for sure who isn't mafia)
Mafia generally have more information than other players, so whoever picks up on tells/hints easiest is more likely to be mafia. There are some notable exceptions. Experience and skill should be taken into consideration.
Trying to find out and reveal power roles on day 1
Asking for excessive explanation from co-mafia. (I got this a lot in a game I just played where I was the Godfather.)
Mis-quoting/selective quoting. Only scum should need to provide false evidence.
Gloating (any form of "complaining" about how bad the previous night was, how the doctor/cop was killed, etc.) Similar to "congratulating the doctor".
Of course this isn't all of them but it's a bunch of good examples. The Gloating one is the reason I immediately called out tfghost in VI.
So if you see those from people, it's a good way to catch them. The problem is, when scum know the common tells, they know not to use them. Because of this, a lot of common scumtells have become towntells because scum are more likely to be careful not to do them. There's a really fine line that every player is able to decide for themselves which side of it a post is on. Hopefully this list of common tells will just give people an idea of what a tell is like and they can all sort of figure out what other tells people might commit by using the same logic as the people who came up with those tells used.
Ok so if you can catch people when they say scummy things, you're off to a good start. The next step is being able to convince people that their post was scummy, because you can have all the correct opinions in the world but if nobody's gonna support your vote, it's useless.
Convincing people, especially more seasoned players who aren't just gonna sheep to whoever posts the biggest wall, isn't that easy. First, you need to make an argument that sounds as flawless as you can get it. Of course, any argument is gonna be opinion but making it sound like fact helps. This of course will take your own custom brand of rhetoric but I like to do it by sounding very sure of myself. (Revealing my game secrets is probably a bad idea :roll: ) Some good stuff to remember would be that longer posts seem more convincing. Even if a lot of the length of the post is quotes, length is just subconsciously impressive (that's what she said herp derp). Also, the more lingo, the better. No seriously. I know most people here hate it but really. Yeah. I'm serious. If you sound like you know what you're talking about and they don't, they're gonna think you sound good, even if it is pretentious or whatever ridiculous names people are calling getting into the game.
So yeah, if you can hunt and you really catch some logical tells, getting people to agree with you isn't too hard.
(2.II) On Wagons
Wagons are generally seen as bad. I disagree. I think wagons are necessary, first of all. I mean, in a good game, everybody has their own reason for voting the same person as other people, but a lot of the time, they would never be the one to initiate the vote on that person, they just agree with it. Wagoning if you agree with it for your own personal reasons is perfectly fine. Wagoning is only really bad when a bunch of noobs jump on it because they're too lazy to play the game but just fine with taking up space time, and good lynches.
(2.III) LOGIC LOGIC LOGIC
Hehe ^ Fugitive is hilarious. This one's not too simple either. Logic is a tricky thing. The first obvious thing in this section is don't be stupid.
I think I'll cover the real importance of logic in 3.III because I think it pertains more to playing as scum.
Lurking is annoying as hell. "It's good netiquette to add a decent post to the thread at least once a day." Lurkers will read the whole thread and probably have enough opinions for 10-20 posts a day but only stick to one post every day or worse, every other day. Lurking used to be considered a scum tell but unfortunately, now it's more of a town tell, because of the reverse psychology thing I brought up in 2.I That just leaves it open for more people to do it, which is a pain. But as long as you're a lurker that comes in and posts something helpful once a day, it's kinda ok. It's really not a bad strategy. Wolves like to kill super active people and third parties like to kill the people who just aren't playing so lurking can be good for anybody whose main goal is trying to survive the longest.
(2.V) Be helpful
We want everybody participating in these games. If you don't have a power role, the easiest way to be helpful is do everything mentioned above. Post often, give reads of characters, don't lurk, always read the thread, and don't do anything scummy. If you're a town player, your goal is to survive or help as many other town survive as possible. This means that you have to be careful not to accidentally do something that can be considered a scumtell. As a town player, acting scummy is very anti-town because it causes people to mislynch and raises suspicion on one player which in turn lowers suspicion slightly on every other player, some of which are inevitably the real threat. Causing yourself to get mislynched by playing wrong means the town loses at least two players and has one less day to catch scum. So play towards your win condition and try to be helpful.
(2.VI) Spotting a fake claim
The problem with some of the game setups we've had is that with people always making up roles, it's very easy to claim just about anything. In a real game of mafia, there's a big list of roles and nobody knows what roles the mods chose to use but everybody knows what's possible. Because we don't play like that, claims can get and have gotten out of control sometimes. If a claim fits a situation too perfectly, it's generally false. (This is why we were raging over Snowman in VII. He said his role made him look like a wolf. How does that make any fucking sense to anybody? Everybody guilty for letting Snowman live after that claim deserves to be punched in the face, really.) If a role seems too powerful, it's either false or there's a sucky mod. If somebody claims an important PR (doctor, cop, vigilante) be wary of them because it would be bad to kill them but there's still the chance that they're lying. The best thing to do in this situation is go back and read all of the player's posts to see if they're acting like what they claim to be. If not, it could be best to let them live for a while anyway because the wolves or a third party might take them out but keep them in mind. Claimed players rarely make it to endgame, which is as it should be.
(2.VII) Pressure votes
As annoying as it is, town acting scummy is fairly common. If you think this could be the case as opposed to scum acting scummy, a good way to help solve the problem is pressure voting. The more votes a player has on them, the more pressured he'll be to claim. A legitimate claim has to be done very carefully and a claim is usually a good way to tell who's what. It's generally good netiquette to allow anybody to claim before lynching them. However, a claim does not clear people. In the past I've seen an issue with people retracting votes on someone simply because they claimed without any attempt made to evaluate the viability of the claim. This will get town killed every time if it happens.
(2.VIII) You May Die
In this game, you never know what will happen. A lot of people like to wait for the right time to give their opinion on the game. This is bad. Anybody could die and lose their right to share logic with their team at any time. It's always best to spout your theories, no matter how ridiculous, as soon as you come up with them. Chances are, somebody else will help you refine them and being wrong is not a scum tell. Nobody's gonna kill you cuz you said something ridiculous.
Part 3. Playing as Scum
(3.II) On Wagons
(3.III) LOGIC LOGIC LOGIC
(3.V) On Busses
(3.VII) Using powers
Part 4. Modding
(4.I) We're really quite nice
Did you know there's several basic rules that are pretty much mandatory anywhere else on the net but we don't follow? The biggest of these would be no posting in the thread at night. Yes, that's a rule. A good one too, as it prevents annoying logic like "PlayerX is scum because as soon as get online, the mod posted the kill." Another one is that you're not allowed to edit your posts under any circumstances and you're not allowed to hide messages inside your posts using different color or small text. Compared to real mods, we're really quite nice. All the more reason to follow the rules we do set.
(4.II) STOP CONFIRMING IN THE STORIES
I see this a lot when a doctor successfully protects somebody. The stories that some mods write will say who the wolf attacked and that they were protected, thus confirming that the protected player is not scum. This puts scum at a disadvantage if it happens twice or more times in a game, especially as other players die because it narrows down the number of people who COULD be scum. As a mod, you're responsible for being fair within your game setup. (See 4.III)
(4.III) Taking sides makes it more fun
So I said that as a mod, you're responsible for being fair WITHIN YOUR GAME SETUP. The balance of the game setup is where the mods are allowed to take sides. I was just in a game that had 25 players. 6 mafia, a Cult Leader, and a Vigilante. Basically, it couldn't have been any more lopsided against town. It's alright to do this. It's fun to experiment with different setups and role combinations. According to other forums, a D5 loss scenario for town (if town plays as bad as possible, they lose on D5) is the most imbalanced fair setup. So have fun with the setup but once you decide it, make sure you stick to what you decided. In 4, me and Mac changed the powers of several roles during the game, which was bad and something we shouldn't have done. Which leads into our next section...
(4.IV) Make sure you're ready
This is bigger than it seems. Having roles ready isn't enough. I started writing this but I can't think of anything. I think some of the biggest examples would be in IV. I don't think anybody has any idea just how unprepared me and Mac were for that but we did A LOT of changing stuff up. Pretty bad game on our part, we're lucky it turned out so well.
(4.V) Creating roles
Since this has been done in every game since roles besides wolves were introduced, I think this is a pretty necessary section. Some roles have worked great, some haven't. I think there's a couple things to think about.
1. Look at roles that already exist. It's probably best to gather inspiration from these. There is A LOT of official roles. You're probably not cool enough to think of something totally original that actually works flawlessly. If you are, more power to you.
2. You have to know how powerful a role is before you put it into effect. Like tfghost's role in 4, (again, awful modding on our part) which was WAY over powered. It made him invincible to three lynches. No group of town is gonna try to lynch somebody four times, especially when his claim made him seem like town. So yeah, no overpowered roles.
3. How does it affect the game setup? Like NID's role in Darkie's game. He could choose who to side with and kill three people. He chose to side with scum and chose to kill three of the best town players in the game which inadvertently caused the Snowman claim fiasco and all that. The game still was a D5 loss setup but there was still just something wrong with it...
Don't rush lynches. That is all.
(4.VII) The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
This is more of a proposition than anything else. Imo, we should have some kind of mutual agreement between mods about rules. If a player breaks rules in our game, there should be some consequences like not being allowed to play the next game (or several games depending on the severity of their illegal action) or randomly getting their role confirmed. Basically, there should be mutual agreement and respect among mods for each others' decisions made while moderating a game.
|MrMarill||Feb 15 2011, 10:48 PM Post #2|
DAT STORY TIEM
THANK YOU =D
Now read this people (Y)
|1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)|
|« Previous Topic · Werewolf · Next Topic »|