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Topic Started: Aug 28 2011, 09:03 AM (32,854 Views)
Granskjegg
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Eg e husfar.
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I'm surprised no one wanted to buy the rights to the Darksiders series. Those games were fantastic. =/
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Antunee
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Borderlands 2's Tiny Tina comes under fire for racism

Really? I seriously hope Tina isn't changed in the next Borderlands iteration.
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Romanticide
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First, I never knew "badonkadonk" was a black term. Then again I've only ever heard it in that one stupid country song, which is just a stupid song regardless of whether or not it re-appropriates a term used by the black community. So whatever.

From that video, which probably isn't the best of evidence but fuck if I'm buying Borderlands 2 just to comment on this, she doesn't seem racist. I'm inclined to agree with the writer's description of her speech. You know, that one tweet where he says it's a mashup of ebonics/fairytale/naivete.

That said, I don't think it would be a huge change to her character to simply avoid using a relatively small subset of expressions. Any writer worth a shit could still make up dialogue that portrays her as charming/insane (which is what I thought they were going for) without resorting to terms associated with certain racial groups. If it *is* a huge change to her character, well, it doesn't say anything good for her character.

This is unlike the Leticia character from DXHR, where her character's entire way of speaking was old-time minstrel speech. That was far worse and never should have been included in a modern production of any sort.
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Volt
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Keep Moving Forward

I absolutely adore BL2, and I can say for certain that Tiny Tina is in no way racist at all. Her character is supposed to be slightly insane, and to make the point, her creators gave her several dialects. Yes, she definitely imitates a black stereotype, but she also imitates pompous Britians and fashion divas. There's no pattern in the way she speaks, she's just kinda... everywhere. Hell, one of her best friends is a black guy; she clearly doesn't have a problem with them. She's just a walking pile of stereotypes.

Seriously, political correctness has become a cancer in this world. People need to learn the difference between satire and actual racism.
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Granskjegg
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Eg e husfar.
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Yeah, there were some obvious steorotypical black lingo in there, but according to Volt that bitch is crazy, which is pretty obvious.
Some people just thrive on negativity, eh.
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Romanticide
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Volt
Feb 4 2013, 03:10 AM
I absolutely adore BL2, and I can say for certain that Tiny Tina is in no way racist at all.  Her character is supposed to be slightly insane, and to make the point, her creators gave her several dialects.  Yes, she definitely imitates a black stereotype, but she also imitates pompous Britians and fashion divas.  There's no pattern in the way she speaks, she's just kinda... everywhere.  Hell, one of her best friends is a black guy; she clearly doesn't have a problem with them.  She's just a walking pile of stereotypes.

Seriously, political correctness has become a cancer in this world.  People need to learn the difference between satire and actual racism.

Citing her imitation of Britons and fashion divas doesn't help your point at all. Neither of those groups has ever been oppressed or discriminated against. The reason it's such a problem when people make fun of groups like blacks and American Indians is, you guessed it, they were oppressed in our society for a very long time. I know we all know this; I'm just bolding for emphasis.

There's a world of difference between making fun/satirizing/whatever of people who have always had power and privilege in our society and doing so to groups of people who have never had either. We can just shrug it off - We have power and privilege. We don't have to worry that society thinks of us as lesser human beings merely because we have a different skin color. For people who don't? It reminds them that they're still lesser people in the eyes of some, no matter how many laws have been passed to try and ensure equal opportunity.

Also, her having a black friend is not an argument against the assertion that she's racist. Her one black friend does not represent all black people (or even any segment of black people), just as you or I do not represent all white people.

Basically, this takes that logic apart.

Can people take political correctness too far? Certainly. There have been some ridiculous cases reported in the media, but by and large, political correctness is the crazy idea of avoiding the use of words/expressions that demean entire groups of people. Most people who are against this are merely looking for an excuse that will justify them being an asshole and/or hating certain groups of people.
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LifeAgainstDeath
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Sexual Orientation: Not Picky

I agree with the writer, I don't see how using that kind of language (without racial motivation) is considered racist.

Romanticide
Feb 4 2013, 03:48 AM
First, I never knew "badonkadonk" was a black term. Then again I've only ever heard it in that one stupid country song, which is just a stupid song regardless of whether or not it re-appropriates a term used by the black community. So whatever.

"Honky Tonk Badonkadonk"? I fucking hate that song.
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Volt
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Romanticide
 
*snip*


There are no racist jokes being made, though. She doesn't make any cracks about running, watermelons, or AIDS. The only thing she's guilty of is talking like them. Is it really so bad for a white person to use the word "crunk"? What's wrong with it? Is it exclusive to black people only? It's part of black culture, but if someone else decides to use the slang, more power to them. It's not inherently offensive, unlike "nigger", which is not a word in question.

Also, another thing that the article forgot to mention. The game doesn't explicitly tell you, but if you read between the lines, it's quite clear that she was raised in a ghetto. How would you expect a girl raised in a ghetto to act like? Well-behaved and proper? No, you'd expect her to act like the people she was raised by, and in this case, black people. If someone is racist for having a different culture than what's expected, then I've lost more faith in this world than I already had.

LifeAgainstDeath
 
"Honky Tonk Badonkadonk"? I fucking hate that song.

Quite.
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Romanticide
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Volt
Feb 4 2013, 11:42 AM
Romanticide
 
*snip*


There are no racist jokes being made, though. She doesn't make any cracks about running, watermelons, or AIDS. The only thing she's guilty of is talking like them. Is it really so bad for a white person to use the word "crunk"? What's wrong with it? Is it exclusive to black people only? It's part of black culture, but if someone else decides to use the slang, more power to them. It's not inherently offensive, unlike "nigger", which is not a word in question.

Also, another thing that the article forgot to mention. The game doesn't explicitly tell you, but if you read between the lines, it's quite clear that she was raised in a ghetto. How would you expect a girl raised in a ghetto to act like? Well-behaved and proper? No, you'd expect her to act like the people she was raised by, and in this case, black people. If someone is racist for having a different culture than what's expected, then I've lost more faith in this world than I already had.

LifeAgainstDeath
 
"Honky Tonk Badonkadonk"? I fucking hate that song.

Quite.

So... Racism is bad only when it's intended?

I know the next point people will make is, "intent matters!" I won't dispute that because it's obvious. But context also matters, and the context with black people will probably always involve their history with slavery and oppression (at least in our lifetimes). That's just how it is, and that's why we as white people can't just take something from their culture and use it blithely. This isn't to say we can't use things from black culture, but we should make every effort to ensure what we borrow is being used in a way that won't demean black people.

Not fair? Neither were slavery or oppression.

I don't think the writer intended to offend anyone or paint a racist caricature. Just the fact that he's having a discussion on the topic is evidence of this. As for those words, if they stood alone, it'd probably be seen as "awkward white girl trying to use terms from black culture". Some people might still be offended by this, but most would laugh. But they were tied up with a particular manner of speaking, which itself was tied up with other manners of speaking that could be construed as weird.

She was raised in a ghetto? Perhaps ghettos in Borderlands 2 are supposed to be like those in the real world (fuck if I know), but games do not have to reflect reality. My first questions would probably be, "What *is* a ghetto in your game's world? Who lives there? Why is it they live there? Is there a unique culture associated with these places?" And so on and so forth. Using real life terminology to describe an imaginary world might be easy, but it seems presumptuous to assume that every game will reflect the real world.

To answer your obviously rhetorical question, I don't just assume that someone from a "ghetto" in a video game will act and speak like a black person. It depends on the game and the universe portrayed within, not on our ideas as people on what ghettos should be.


You guys might see this as "PC gone awry" or whatever else. I see it as "video games are gaining traction in our society". They're now being held to higher standards, the same standards you see in other mediums. This is how it should be, and it's not going away.
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Antunee
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Treating certain races specially because of past injustices (especially those that aren't even relevant today; ie. slavery) is just as racist as treating certain races like dirt because of a belief in racial superiority.
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MrMarill
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DAT STORY TIEM

til gaming news is racial superiority discussion
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Granskjegg
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New Xbox might require you to be online at all times
If the sources are true...well I feel very sorry for the future of the Xbox. One of the great things about consoles is that they're pretty casual (at least for me). Just sitting down in your couch and playing some single-player games is great. Often when the internet is down and I can't really do much else when it comes to entertainment, good singleplayer games are always there to help me out. Taking away the, probably, best part of consoles is fucking ridiculous.
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Romanticide
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Granskjegg
Feb 6 2013, 08:05 AM
New Xbox might require you to be online at all times
If the sources are true...well I feel very sorry for the future of the Xbox. One of the great things about consoles is that they're pretty casual (at least for me). Just sitting down in your couch and playing some single-player games is great. Often when the internet is down and I can't really do much else when it comes to entertainment, good singleplayer games are always there to help me out. Taking away the, probably, best part of consoles is fucking ridiculous.

NOPE

Not that the next Xbox was ever on my list of "must-haves" because Microsoft has next to no games I want, but assuming this is true, no way.

I like being able to play games offline too. Assuming that my internet were ever to go out for whatever reasons, I'd still at least be able to play the games I paid good money for. I can't think of any other product (not subscription-based, anyway) that would essentially be an expensive brick without internet. I don't think it's right.

On a more practical level, even in the US, there are places with no or unreliable broadband internet. I don't know much about the situation in a lot of other countries, but I'd assume it's even worse in many of them. It seems like a stupid business strategy to limit your potential customer base.

Cock-blocking used games is total bullshit. I understand publishers' gripe against used games, but rather than try to prevent something that has been happening since the start of fucking commerce and will continue to happen in every other field, they should try to make a deal with GameStop. Losing some revenue because people re-sell products they don't want anymore is a cost of doing business. Every other industry accepts this, even if it's only begrudgingly. The video game industry is not special.

I still think the real issue stems from making games that are too fucking expensive. When you have to sell millions of copies week one to consider the average AAA game a success, might it no longer be a sustainable business model?

On that note, look at these specs. An eight-core AMD processor? 8 gigs of RAM? While that's nice, it likely means the machine will cost a fair chunk of change. Nintendo will likely once again have the cheap console, and because most parents first look at the price tag when purchasing a new console (Hello? The economy still sucks.), the Wii U will likely clean up amongst the casual demographic once again.

The key to success, like it or not, is appealing to casuals. Not sure this machine does so, at least based off of what we're hearing.

But yeah. This shit where consoles take the worst aspects of PC gaming is the reason I'm moving to PC/Ninty consoles, and then rounding up a PS4 when I can find it on the cheap. (Unless it too has this bullshit.)
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Granskjegg
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Eg e husfar.
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Yup, my thoughts exactly.
There are plenty of places in Norway where there is little to no internet. Sure many might have a good wired connection, but not wireless internet.
Looking at our old place from a few years back when we only had a wired connection. We'd have to buy a ten meter cable to hook up any consoles on the first floor to the internet.
I was never interested in buying an Xbox, but I sure as won't now - assuming this BS is true.

Totally with you, PC and Nintendo all day 'erry day with a sprinkle of PlayStation.
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LightningBolt
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These fuckers better pray that nobody cracks the PS4 and new Xbox if these rumors are true. Piracy all over the fucking place.
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