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Gaming News
Topic Started: Aug 28 2011, 09:03 AM (32,806 Views)
Outlaw454
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I am deeply offended by how goddamn stupid that is.

EDIT: I read more, thinking it couldn't possibly get anymore offensively stupid. I was wrong.
Edited by Outlaw454, Apr 9 2015, 09:29 PM.
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dwestfan13
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lmao, it's not like they even profit from those games anymore, therefore there's no monetary losses. This is hilariously stupid.
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MrMarill
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http://pietriots.com/2015/04/10/gamers-stop-being-shit-and-buy-a-wii-u/

While this article is a liiittle bit fanboy-y, it's not exactly wrong. And it's hilarious.
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tfghost92
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MrMarill
Apr 11 2015, 07:51 PM
http://pietriots.com/2015/04/10/gamers-stop-being-shit-and-buy-a-wii-u/

While this article is a liiittle bit fanboy-y, it's not exactly wrong. And it's hilarious.
ITA: Wii U is better because it has better games. the games other consoles have suck because I don't like them.

Can't believe I read that fanboy garbage expecting the guy to drop a point that wasn't "oh I just dun like dem"


Saying the state of gaming is bad because we're in a phase you don't particularly like or care for makes you ignorant and stupid. Just because someone doesn't want to buy a Wii U to play casuals doesn't mean they don't understand gaming. It means they have a different style than you. I will literally never fathom how these people can possibly think this way. I tend to play a range of puzzlers, MOBAs, shooters, sports games, music games, etc. but shooters though. This guy would have a fit if I said that one sentence to him right there because its obvious that he doesn't consider anything in the hardcore scene as real gaming, which is sick. Fuck Call of Duty for attempting to bring a little realism to shooters or Battlefield for focusing on multiplayer gaming. But I realy wonder what he'd have to say about Splatoon. I am sure because you're shooting ink and have cute little characters suddenly makes it innovative and alright and the state of gaming is super swell but in the end game you're pointing a gun and shooting it with a focus on multiplayer and if you can give me a logical reasoning as to how that is any different then be my guest. "they have innovative ways to make singleplayer fun!" Call of Duty has made an effort to flesh out their single player stories to make them enjoyable and there are at least two other game modes geared toward singleplayer fans. Try again. Shit like this gets me amped

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MrMarill
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The Article
 
Rockstar spent an entire year making GTAV a second time. Games like Borderlands and Batman are being resold to the same audience with no gameplay improvements. Assassin’s Creed has an entire nation of people working on it and still needs a 40GB patch to function, despite the best programming efforts of their genius development babies.



WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?

When did all this shit become NORMAL?


I fail to see how this translates as "I hate other types of games". This is expressing immense frustration at games that do not work both physically and in a marketing sense. The only part where he mentions that he doesn't like those games are where he says Assassin's Creed and Call of Duty were never good... which I'd agree with, to be frank, but that is more subjective for sure. This article is bluntly shouting at the games industry for being so obviously toxic and taking gigantic leaps backwards in terms of content for money paid and, in some cases, don't even work.

Console sales are down to criminally low levels. The Wii U and the Xbox One are both selling near enough to levels that made Sega stop producing consoles. I totally understand that Nintendo and Microsoft have more money in the bank sitting around to not go under but the point is that two of the biggest names in gaming are barely outselling a console that infamously sold appallingly. When the biggest name exclusives are shipping with five hours of content and that console has finally had its first exclusive worth owning after a year and a half of being out, then yes, I can pretty safely say console gaming is dying. I went to the top rated games of 2014 on Metacritic and scrolled down 'till I could find an exclusive that wasn't on Wii U. For PS4, the first exclusive I found was at #11 and the first non-indie game was LBP3 at #49 - a game not only available on PS3 as it is but a game that is, surprise surprise, broken as hell. For Xbone, I didn't have to go quite as far, only #12 to get the Master Chief Collection... but as I've been through already, that game is barely functional online.

So yes, I think console gaming is dying and yes, I think it's absolutely tragic that gamers aren't buying a Wii U. I disagree with how good he says the games are in the article but they actually, y'know, work. I'm not sure when the games industry suddenly decided it was okay to spend upwards of £40 (!) on a game that could be, in some cases, unusable. No music fan would accept it, no film fan would accept it and in those cases people aren't even spending anywhere near as much. This is not about me not liking those types of games or other people not liking those types of games, this is me as a gamer for my entire life being legitimately sad that the masses are shoveling money towards absolute garbage.


EDIT: Proofreading, I have to mention that the good game for PS4 is Bloodborne and the Metacritic lists were searching for just PS4/Xbone games - so MCC is #12 out of just Xbone games, not every game. The top three games of 2014 are also literally just games released in 2013 ported to PS4/Xbone in TLoU and GTA.
Edited by MrMarill, Apr 12 2015, 10:50 PM.
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Romanticide
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If you think the only point he made was "I don't like this type of game", you should re-read the article. While that is going on, it's not the only point being made.

One of the bigger points being made is that AAA development/marketing costs a shitton of money. I feel it's the reason we're getting all these remakes and remasters. Sure, ~20 million PS4s have been sold, and as far as I know, around ten million Xbox Ones have been sold (can't find good numbers because they don't fucking exist in the West), but a relatively small percentage of the base buys even the biggest blockbusters. If this weren't true, a lot more titles would have sold gangbusters on Wii/DS. As it is, if you're releasing a next gen exclusive, you can't count on the insane numbers Call of Duty or whatever franchise was doing on 360/PS3.

Maybe once more people adopt the PS4/XB1, we'll start seeing new IPs that can do new and original things with these machines. Maybe. I think those would come from the indie/not-quite AAA (AA?) spaces; they don't have the overwhelming need to make obscene profits that AAA publishers do. I tend towards cynicism in the AAA space because AAA publishers need to make a profit for their shareholders, and the easiest way to do so is with stuff we already know, but tweaked. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself because "somewhat tweaked" often leads to a better sequel/series, but the problem is that most things we get *are* sequels and series.

Another point being made is that gaming is just so damn inconvenient these days. The days where you slam a cartridge into your console are long gone, unless you play only 3DS I guess. Nowadays you have to download a game (if on PC/buying digital), wait for the potential day one patches to download and install (depending on the size, this can be a huge pain in the ass), possibly enter a code to play your game... It can be bullshit. Most titles are still relatively easy to play, even on not-Nintendo systems, but every time a game launches with a ginormous early patch or whatever (think AC: Unity or something), a lot of people grow a little more tired of the bullshit.

Everything else has trended towards simplicity. Technology? Computers and smartphones are easier to use than ever. Music? We spend more on downloads than physical media, in large part because it's really easy to do and it allows us to avoid filler. We can also stream millions upon millions of songs. TV/Movies? Again, we can stream. Video games? Not so much. Of course, games are more complex to make than any other form of entertainment, so problems are expected, but I feel a large part of the problems we're having with fiascoes like the aforementioned Unity and Halo: Master Chief Collection stem from a lack of truly "efficient" (whatever that might be) ways to make video games.


Semi-related, but nobody has really mentioned this:
"Meanwhile journalism standards are lower than ever, Youtubers are demanding money for narrating their own cognitive failures, and Tweeters are creating brand new social issues to be outraged over every day."

Gaming journalism is ass compared to even sports journalism, which is indisputably ass, and YouTubers aren't my cup of tea for many reasons, one of the biggest being that most of them just represent the status quo. Nothing to say, so moving on.

"Tweeters" aren't manufacturing new social issues. Rather, games media/(mostly) indie developers are pushing for gamers and the industry at large to realize that video games are not free of outside influence. Sure, you can claim "it's a fictional world" or "it's my artistic vision" all you want, but that doesn't mean real world influence didn't seep into your game. It's unavoidable. The very act of creating art implies real world influence seeped in. If art were bereft of real world influence, it would have nothing of value to say. What is being criticized is that harmful shit seeps into video games, like sexist tropes and the glorification of mindless violence, amongst other shit.

The scenes surrounding other forms of media recognized this long ago. Gamers need to grow up and recognize that this wave of cultural criticism isn't an attack on games and the people who play them. Rather, it gives the medium legitimacy, and that's something we should be happy about.
Edited by Romanticide, Apr 12 2015, 11:34 PM.
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DucksFAN93
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While each one of you makes solid points, I have to say one thing:
It is NOT tragic that people aren't buying the Wii U. Why should they? To get a bunch of party games and crappy ports, + a remade Zelda? No thanks. My Wii U I have had to send in twice to get it fixed. No thanks. I have 7 games for Wii U in what has it been, two years? Idk. All those games are "party" games I guess. It is not tragic that the Wii U sucks in sales, because it sucks. I'm disappointed so far with each console for different reasons, but the Wii U most of all.

They're too busy pushing they're freaking glorified beanie babies aka amiibo than doing more with their platform. And they're in such shortages no one can even get them to make use of the ones they want. Nah, it's not tragic.
Edited by DucksFAN93, Apr 13 2015, 01:56 AM.
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MrMarill
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A game having local multiplayer =/= it being primarily a party game

You'd be hard pressed to find a Nintendo series outside of Zelda which doesn't have multiplayer of some sort. I'd also argue that Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101 and Super Mario 3D World are not party games. I see on the internet a lot that the Wii U has no games or the majority of them are rehashes but I don't really understand that argument when the only exclusive worth playing on any other system is Bloodborne. I mean, the PC has pretty much every single third party game you could ever want while additionally being, y'know, a PC, so your console better be offering me something really unique to make me buy it. Final Fantasy 15? That's the kind of stuff that makes people want to buy a console. Bloodborne too. What I can not understand is how so many PS4 sales are for people to just play the newest CoD... which are available on 360/PS3 anyway. Until Bloodborne's release, the PS4 was a glorified graphics update to the PS3. I legitimately can't think of a single game on the PS4 pre-Bloodborne that I'd want that wasn't available on PS3 and, if there are any, I sincerely doubt they're not available on PC either.

Idk, it seems I value exclusives a lot more than most people do when it comes to buying consoles. I'm not going to spend upwards of £300 on a console that does the same things a console I already own does but slightly prettier. It's the same reason I generally don't upgrade my phone - I don't need to spend £150+ to have a device which can still text, still call and still browse the internet.
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DucksFAN93
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Your entire post is based on your personal taste in games. Mario Kart 8, Super Smash Bros. Wii U are completely 100% party games, regardless of the hardcore faithful it may have (the 1 percenters). I seriously love those games, but they run out of their thrills quickly. They are superb for when I want to play with my brothers and my oldest brother's fiancé.

I value exclusives, but Wii U has none that really really stand out. Super Mario Galaxy, Galaxy 2, Sunshine, 64, etc. are all better than 3D World (I did thoroughly enjoy it, however). 3D World is not a system seller, I am sorry. Bayonetta 2 was epic, but to me, has little replay value.

Wonderful 101 is....mediocre. Good, but not a system seller. Pikmin 3 is adorable but no replay value. Donkey Kong Country Returns TF is simply DKCR in HD (Still love it though). Aaaaaaaaand, that is about all she wrote for the Wii U after several YEARS.

For the Xbox One, I have Shadows of Mordor, Ryse, Lords of the Fallen, Advanced Warfare, Battlefield 4, Diablo III, Dead Rising 3, Sunset Overdrive, Need for Speed Rivals, Halo MCC, Borderlands Collection (Never had Borderlands 2 or Pre-Sequel), Dying Light, Child of Light, Ori and the Blind Forest, Destiny, Unity, Metro Redux, Titanfall, Tomb Raider reboot, Dragon Age Inquisition, Evolve, Far Cry 4, Wolfenstein New Order, Evil Within, Watch Dogs, Plants Vs. Zombies, Thief, and Sleeping Dogs Definitive edition.

Minus like one or two of those (Watch Dogs I believe), you can't get any of those on Wii U.

Now include Batman Arkham Knight, Halo 5, MGS V, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Witcher 3 Wild Hunt, Mad Max, FF XV, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, Scalebound, and the Division among others, that are unavailable to Wii U, and you give me a damn reason I should be picking the Wii U over PS4 or Xbox One. Give me a damn reason why I should overlook all those games for Wonderful 101, Mario Kart 8, DKCR, Mario this Mario that and a new Zelda that will come out God knows when. No way, no way, you gotta be out of your mind to think that Nintendo has it when it clearly does not. Fuck amiibo or as I call them the second coming of collectable beanie babies and a piss poor catalogue of games. Psht.
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LifeAgainstDeath
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DucksFAN93
Apr 13 2015, 03:56 AM
Your entire post is based on your personal taste in games.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+pot+calling+the+kettle+black
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Volt
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Keep Moving Forward

For me personally, my Wii U has seen far more play than my PS4 and Xbone combined. I own 7 games on the Wii U, 4 on the Xbone, and 2 on the PS4. I would only recommend getting the Wii U right now. Most games available on the Xbone/PS4 are also available on the 360/PS3/PC, and all of us have at least one of those. Personally I'd much rather get the definitive version that has all the bells and whistles compared to a toned down version, but not everyone is like that.

I keep comparing this generation to the last generation, as far as the number of actual good games released. For many of us, this is the first generation where we are all old enough and connected enough to keep a constant eye on how this generation is fairing. When compared to the library of the entire 7th generation of games, it's easy to say "but where are the games?" for 8th gen. However, when 7th gen launched back in 2005, it took a couple years for anything worth buying to show up as well. It wasn't until 2007 when 7th generation actually felt like it had arrived, with massive new IPs like Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, Uncharted, and Gears of War, as well as highly praised new entries in established IPs such as Twilight Princess, Halo 3, Super Mario Galaxy, and CoD4.

8th gen started in 2012 with Nintendo leading the charge. Most people would agree that the Wii U is already worth getting, so instead we'll compare the Xbone and PS4, both of which launched in 2013. This will make it the second year into those consoles lives. If the pattern holds up, 2015 should be the year in which 8th gen will finally feel like it's arrived. We still largely don't know what 2015 has in store for us, but E3 is in two months, and I'm expecting fireworks.

I will say, though, that the AAA industry has been mostly disappointing for the last couple years. So many of the biggest games of 2014 were released broken or unfinished. And even if/when they were fixed, the actual game was rather forgettable.

I think it's pretty simple what the problem is. AAA developers are being forced to live up to the demands of publishers and investors, so they're cutting corners, taking fewer risks. As the industry has moved from generation to generation, the more and more expensive the games have gotten to make. It's gotten to the point where I think that the expectations are just too big and unobtainable for the amount of money that they're wanting to get. Investors will always demand for more profits, and it is simply impossible to meet that demand forever. I think we've arrived at that limit. If the industry wants to continue to sustain itself, they need to start downsizing their projects. Not every game needs to have photo-realistic graphics or an open world the size of England.
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Romanticide
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Idk about Marill or anyone else, but my point is the same as it's been for years: Nintendo consoles are worth owning as secondary (or tertiary/quaternary) consoles. You cannot count on Nintendo to be your primary console, but that's been true since the N64 days. You could argue SNES if you wanted, but I do feel it could be a primary machine. We might have seen this from the perspective of, "my friend has *insert platform* and *insert awesome games you played together* and I'm kinda jelly", but now we're of an age where we can buy our own shit and we're connected more, so we have this fear of missing out where it once didn't exist. Volt already said this, so yeah.

If you want or can only afford one machine, I'm probably going to tell you it shouldn't be Nintendo. If you really like Nintendo enough to ignore *insert list of games*, then maybe, but if your priority is getting the library most tailored to your gaming wants/needs, I'll probably say PS4 or XB1. I'd say PC if you're willing to build/spend that money, but if you want or can afford only one machine, that's probably not the case.


My Wii U is probably my 4th most used system at the moment. It's awaiting its (personal) saviors, X and SMT x FE, which will get 100+ hours of playtime each across many files. Smash and Kart are great games, up there with the best entries in their series, but I sometimes get this nagging feeling that I've done it all before. It's hard to pour hundreds of hours into a game that gives you that feeling. The best ones make you ignore it, after all. Bayonetta 2 (and 1, since it came with 2) is great, but I do agree that it has little replay value outside of playing on a higher level/getting all the Pure Platinums. I'm not really into that sort of thing for most games anymore. DKC: TF is pretty cool (cwutididthar), but I don't think I'll be coming back to that one for a while once I complete it. Still need to play through Pikmin 3 and try to get into Monster Hunter, so I can't say anything on those.

I think most people can agree a 3DS is worth owning. Between its own decent library and the DS's awesome library, you have plenty of shit to play. Most of the issues people have with Ninty stem from how they've handled home consoles and more recently, Amiibos.

Obviously my non-Ninty library trounces my Ninty library in quantity. It's not even a contest, in large part thanks to Steam. Quality is a more subjective thing, but Civilization is probably not coming to consoles in its best form, The Elder Scrolls is best on PC every time, we don't get city builders worth a shit on consoles (Cities: Skylines is awesome), and I'd wager most third party titles that come to PC are superior there. You might prefer a console for whatever reason, which is fair, but a PC can usually do a third party title better if run on a good enough rig. A lot of my Steam stuff doesn't have hundreds of hours played because many of those titles aren't those types of games, but what I've played through I've enjoyed.

PS3 is where I went to get my JRPG fix. Ninty doesn't really do epic JRPGs on its home consoles. The Wii had Xenoblade, The Last Story, and Arc Rise Fantasia, each of which was *good*, but I would have missed out on plenty of JRPGs (and a few other choice titles) without my PS3. I still have X-2 and Xillia 2 to play there, to speak nothing of older games I missed because PS2 was my first Sony system, and that very late in its lifecycle. This said, I hope JRPGs come to consoles so I can ditch consoles for good. I'd miss Nintendo games to be sure, but 90% of what I want comes to PC anyway. I think I can live with missing out on a few great games so I don't keep buying boxes every five years.


tl;dr: It really all does come down to taste and how much priority you place on having as few machines as possible. Nothing I've said is even meant to convince anyone of any system's superiority (though you all know I dickride PC/Ninty pretty damn hard); it's meant to point out that it all comes down to preferences.
Edited by Romanticide, Apr 13 2015, 06:03 AM.
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MrMarill
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Notice I don't mention multiplats being relevant to owning a console in any of my posts. The reason for this is that the PC version is almost always better with more customisation, control options and whatever else - after that, your PC also does PC things that consoles are trying to do stuff that's, uh, already available on PC. I really don't see a reason for PC not to be your primary console this generation although I didn't factor much cost into it like Ro mentioned, I have to say. Then the other aspect of this is upgrading your system - if you had a PS3 or 360 last generation, what reason is there at all to upgrade to PS4/Xbone? You get the same games with fancier graphics. I mean, I'm looking at your list of games and seeing port, port, multiplat, port, port, mediocre exclusive. If Tomb Raider can be bought and enjoyed on my 360 totally fine, I'm not spending hundreds of pounds to buy the same game with fancier graphics. I don't have anything against people buying those games if they own the system and possibly missed out on it originally but I really haven't seen a single game that makes me think "ooh yeah, I need to get an Xbox One to play that game". Even ignoring the fact I own a PC, I could get every multiplat I personally wanted on 360/PS3. Alien Isolation? Shadow of Mordor? Hell, even Watch Dogs if I wanted it? Sorted, fine. I don't need to spend my money on a graphics update.

The case has always been that you buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. I'm just utterly baffled as to what's drawing people to the Xbone/PS4. Exclusive games? Nope. It's just brand loyalty and basically nothing else. The only way developers will stop this absolute bullshit of giving us unfinished games or selling hardware without software (Nintendo are guilty of this too) is if we don't throw money at them... which we're doing anyway. The Wii U is the only console with exclusives worth a shit to own pre-Bloodborne (and arguably Sunset Overdrive - haven't played but it's reportedly fun) so, yes, I do think it's a tragedy the console isn't selling more. Regardless of whether the games your personal cup of tea, I don't think anyone's going to say that Ryse is a better game than Mario Kart, SM3DW, W101, Pikmin 3, even Sonic Lost World.

The portion of the gaming community that buys consoles for actual content and games aren't spending their money this generation because nothing takes their interest. Why should we be giving money to Microsoft who have given us no gaming content? I buy games consoles to play games. I don't need social media, I don't need to be able to stream from my console worse than I can on my PC, I don't need a more cumbersome TV, I want to play some fun, engaging video games. Communities vote with their wallets and gamers just aren't doing that right now. If we continue to pre-order games with review embargoes that aren't finished then game developers won't suddenly start taking their customers seriously. Assassin's Creed Unity sold the same amount of copies as Black Flag did despite being inexcusably buggy. The backlash doesn't tell Ubisoft to change their ways if their pockets are still lined with gold. I mean, I'm genuinely happy to see the PS4 get a really solid, well made game in Bloodborne as that's the direction that console should be taking. That's the kind of thing that makes me think "hmm, the PS4 gives me an experience I can't get anywhere else", not EVOLVE's Day 1 DLC bullshit being available across PS4, Xbone and PC.
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DucksFAN93
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Seeing as I don't own a gaming PC, and many simply can't afford or don't understand how to build one, I am basing my posts on console vs console, not factoring PC into it. But, as it stands, I'm pretty much done talking about it, honestly. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, even if it's clear to see that console vs console, Nintendo is losing hardcore. If all you can get is a CONSOLE, then Nintendo is really not the machine for anyone.
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MrMarill
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In 2015, console vs console is almost completely irrelevant if you don't factor in PC. Saying the PC isn't a console when it plays the exact same games because people "don't understand how to build one" (when it's painfully easy, just one quick guide from Google will show you) is exactly what I mean. The only reason to stick to consoles aside from price (and I'd argue that you're going to end up saving money anyway by the time you factor in XBL, PSN+, DLC and lack of Steam sales) is that, well, they're home consoles and that's what people have always bought.

I'm not sure why we got quite so hostile - I mean, I'm very passionate about this too but it's not like I wrote the article or anything. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if it's clear to see that console vs console, Nintendo actually offers something different to its competitors which are both in a race to be more irrelevant PCs.
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