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| Topic Started: Aug 28 2011, 09:03 AM (32,803 Views) | |
| Outlaw454 | Apr 23 2015, 11:07 AM Post #1216 |
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Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies
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I want to nitpick the whole "BF2's campaign was nothing special" thing that the edited chart has. The campaign often had objectives well beyond what the instant action mode could pull off, and was pretty good overall. The Hoth battle alone used the full map, which had the massive snowfield, the interior of the Rebel base, and another, smaller snowfield behind the base with a transport awaiting liftoff. "Not losing anything here" is in his opinion. I personally would love a full-fledged single player campaign. Please note: I have several weeks worth of in-game time with BF2. Some of this could very well be the nostalgia filter talking, but I have played it recently on PC and still loved every minute of it. |
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| Antunee | Apr 23 2015, 06:11 PM Post #1217 |
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#1 Girl
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I can't take that edited chart seriously. If I wanted opinions and walls of text, I wouldn't be looking at a chart of features. I don't want "justifications." I want facts. Most accurate chart I've seen with less opinion Number of maps is misleading. It includes the free DLC, which is also mentioned later. Implies that the game will have that many maps + free DLC later. Most likely not moddable because Frostbite. The campaign "missions" sound Spartan Ops-esque. No definite information, though. What information we do have is dissatisfying to a large amount of people, and EA's track record itself is reason enough to be weary. We've all been burned by "hype" releases before. I just don't see why so many people are dick riding EA and this game (I'm not saying anyone here is, it's mostly Reddit) after everything that has happened with all of the ridiculously over-hyped games recently. |
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| DucksFAN93 | Apr 23 2015, 06:46 PM Post #1218 |
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The Sports Nut Member
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Well, because nostalgia is really playing a massive part in everyone's "let downs." I would rather have less, but so much more polished and integrated than simply more just for the sake of having more. The amount of "classes" in BF before were mostly Reskins, nothing really differentiating them (prequel vs classic). Anyways, why can't we wait for more information before deciding to kill someone over a game. I'm so tired of hearing about the gaming industry doing us wrong. At least we have games for gods sake |
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| Outlaw454 | Apr 23 2015, 06:47 PM Post #1219 |
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Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies
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I can answer the dick-riding part: because we have been waiting for 10 years for a new battlefront game. 10 years is a long time to build up your own expectations and just willfully accept it in whatever form it comes. Last we had heard anything about a new Battlefront, Free Radical studios shut down and that was the end of it, and that was several years ago. |
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| Romanticide | Apr 23 2015, 10:22 PM Post #1220 |
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Cult Leader
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I never played the original Battlefront games, so comparisons like this don't particularly matter to me. So what if it has less content, leaves out modes that were apparently in the older games, or whatever? The times, they have changed. It takes a lot more time and resources to make an AAA production in 2015 than it did when these games came out. That in mind, for a game like this, I'd rather have less content if that means it's more polished. More maps, vehicles, or whatever can always be added later. Just give us a fun game and a decent amount (whatever that might be, idfk) of base content and most of us will probably be happy to wait for more stuff. There will always be people who complain, but tbh that's what gamers *do* these days. Sometimes there's good reason, sometimes not so much. If the game's any good, nobody is going to give a toss about the complainers. Single player would be cool, but not at the cost of what most people are playing for. Let's be honest: That's not single player campaigns, not in this genre. I'd rather have a more polished bot/online experience than a campaign I'll play for 10 hours at most and forget about.
I'd agree that we should be grateful for the good stuff that comes out. There's still plenty of it even in the shitstorm that (AAA) gaming is today. Life is Strange and Cities: Skylines are awesome and they came out this year. Persona Q was pretty good. I'm hyped for X and Persona 5, to say nothing of Zelda when that finally comes out. Etcetera, etcetera. Problem is, there's a hype culture surrounding video games (and everything in general, really), so once something comes out, we read the reviews/play the game a bit, throw out our opinions, and then move on the the next hyped thing. In this sort of atmosphere, there just isn't much *time* to appreciate good shit. There also isn't much incentive; that's not where the clicks are to be found for the gaming media. If you can write something that either gets people hyped or outraged, you've met your click quota for the day. I'll be grateful for what's awesome, while always criticizing what's wrong and hoping for the industry to make progress. These aren't mutually exclusive stances to hold, even if they appear that way. |
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| CALJR_8760 | Apr 24 2015, 05:20 AM Post #1221 |
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The Lonely One
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I'm ok with less maps and stuff like that if it means it'll be more polished, but single player is a big aspect. Most people never touched these games online considering I'm sure the majority owned it on the ps2, which wasn't very reliable for online gaming. I'm also ok with no space battles for now. I liked space battles ok, but it was disappointed that when they added those we also lost out on the in atmosphere battles, which made the first battlefront better to me, having battles on the ground while there are dogfights in the air. Still would like for space battles though, loves infiltrating the other ships and blowing it up from the inside |
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| MrMarill | Apr 24 2015, 12:45 PM Post #1222 |
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DAT STORY TIEM
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If I was charged £10 for a movie that had atrocious CGI work and was crudely edited like it was a first draft when it had a huge budget, I'm going to be mad. I'm not sure why the games industry needs to be so thankful for companies making money off them. Some games are awesome - Alien Isolation and Shadow of Mordor come to mind as really great, recent AAA games. With gaming's consumerbase being so prevalent on the internet discussion boards, our feedback goes a lot further than other forms of media. While we can continue to vote with our wallets, we can also tell developers that it is not okay to have such a ludicrous amount of DLC on day one. So I am upset and want to change things when said DLC sold well anyway (although I respect this is an ambiguous statement straight from the company's mouth). Gaming is possibly the most expensive form of media there is and I really don't want to see it become more expensive with less content that isn't even polished as well as before. |
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| CALJR_8760 | Apr 24 2015, 01:31 PM Post #1223 |
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The Lonely One
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That's the thing, you should never be thankful for something you're paying for. For the price of one game I could go to the movies at least 6 times, buy at least 3 movies, 6 books, 6 albums, or a couple months of my comics pull list. So when I go to drop that money on a video game, I expect a lot of quality, especially when some of these games have over twice the budget of big blockbuster movies without the need to pay ten million dollars to the lead actor and the need to fly all over the world to make it. If there is any media that needs quality control its video games. |
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| DucksFAN93 | Apr 24 2015, 03:48 PM Post #1224 |
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The Sports Nut Member
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Then don't buy a game that sucks you know when it actually releases, not 7 months prior to the release. Idk why you all like missing my points and arguing with me. |
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| MrMarill | Apr 24 2015, 08:20 PM Post #1225 |
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DAT STORY TIEM
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If you don't give feedback to developers about concerns, we reach release and the game comes out disappointing but still prints money on release from pre-orders, everyone vows to never pre-order again and then pre-orders the next big game. Right now, there's a lot of people upset at the moment because Splatoon has the amiibo equivalent of Day One DLC along with no voice chat and a complete lack of customisable rules for lobbies with friends and stuff. If this had all been stated earlier, the community could have voiced huge concerns with these features but as they're only being announced now, there's nowhere near enough time to fix these and a lot of people are very concerned with how the release is going to shape up. Giving feedback to developers is not a bad thing if it makes the final product better when it's released. |
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| Granskjegg | Apr 24 2015, 10:31 PM Post #1226 |
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Eg e husfar.
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There aren't a whole lot, but more and more companies are starting to take community feedback seriously. One company that's doing this quite well is DICE (specifically the LA team), the Community Test Environment helped improve Battlefield 4 a lot (or so I hear from the community). Actively seeking help and feedback from the community is something I consider an important part of game development (especially for multiplayer games, and ESPECIALLY early access games), you don't want the community to change the vision of the game, but pointing out missing/dumb features can really make a big difference. And Nintendo's (or whoever) reasoning behind no voice chat for Splatoon was laughably stupid. How hard would it be to implement an option to disable voice chat in the settings menu? |
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| Romanticide | Apr 24 2015, 11:33 PM Post #1227 |
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Cult Leader
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http://steamcommunity.com//workshop/aboutpaidcontent/ Where do I begin with this one? I guess a good starting point would be, "I'm not against the idea of modders getting paid for their work." Some of the absolute best mods are practically essential. In the case of Skyrim, these would be the Unofficial Patches and SKSE. The Unofficial Patches fix a lot of bugs that Bethesda will never get to and SKSE is required for a lot of great mods. Some of the best mods add quality content or radically change the game. Some of these would include Falskaar, Wyrmstooth, Frostfall, and Wet and Cold. I wouldn't have an issue paying for any of the mods I mentioned. How much I'd pay for each mod is a different matter, which... is subverted by "pay what you want" buttons. Nice! But yeah, each mod currently in the Workshop has a lot of price points you can choose from. This is a pretty nice feature tbh; I wouldn't have a problem paying $2 or so for Wet and Cold. I'll pass on everything else though. Yeah, modders put a lot of time and effort into their work, and yeah, if people are willing to compensate them for it, they deserve the money. I'd like it if they got more than a 25% cut, though. Bethesda and Valve obviously deserve a cut for what they do, but to take 45% and 30% respectively and leave 25% for the people generating the content you want to sell... That's some bullshit. If it were more like 50% to the modders and 25% to Bethesda and Valve, that would seem more fair to me. Reasonable people can haggle over these numbers, but I tend to think the people who create whatever you're selling deserve the most money. The problem with this scheme is that most of the mods aren't worth paying for. I'd only consider paying for Wet and Cold and Midas Magic. Everything else is pretty meh IMO. If they had launched with mods that people would actually pay for, maybe this wouldn't have been received so badly. There's a difference between launching with a few of Skyrim's most epic quests, some of its most essential mods/patches, a few good companions, some of the best texture packs, and even some of the meh packs of weapons/armor and... This underwhelming launch. Then again, maybe that would have inspired an even bigger backlash, who knows. I tend to believe people are willing to pay for quality, though. However, if I'm paying for a mod, I now expect it to work with every version of Skyrim and the official DLC. The official HD textures are an obvious exception for texture packs. I also expect it to work with other paid mods, or if it cannot, I expect that to be noted. Testing compatibility with all unpaid mods is obviously impossible, but I'd expect to know of incompatibilities with more well-known mods. Don't like it? Tough shit, don't charge me money. Donation buttons/Patreon links and relatively short compatibility issues sections are all well and good for free mods, but requiring payment means you need to put in more effort to ensure our product works. After all, once you charge money, it's a product. Valve and Bethesda expect us to curate the Workshop for them. Why should I? That's not my fucking job. I'm not getting paid for it, or if I am it'll probably be a few dollars for my Steam Wallet if I report something. Big deal. None of us here is a part of any modding community (as far as I know), so we won't *know* if most mods are stolen content or whatever. We probably won't know of most original authors. I don't care about nudity, suggestive dialogue, sex, or whatever. I do care about content that is offensive to marginalized groups, and that's about it. The way I see it, if you want the Workshop to be curated, you need to hire actual curators. But... it's Valve. We know Valve's biggest failings are in customer service and curating. I don't know. At first I thought the system was total garbage. I still don't think it's very good, however. I think the system could be a good thing if it were paying modders what they deserve, if it had content that were worth a shit, and if it weren't going to divide the modding community. Already we're seeing people say "don't use my work for money", which isn't a good thing in a community that relies on collaboration to make quality content. A lot of mods use code from other mods/modders to make their own content, which allows people to make better mods than they might have been able to otherwise. Taken to its logical conclusion, the modding community would be split into three groups: One that believes in free modding and works only with people in it for "the love of modding", one that believes it should be allowed to monetize its work and is ostracized from the free modding community, and another willing to work with/allow their work to be used by both sides (like the SKSE crew). Quality content would probably come from all groups, but the barrier would be if you're willing to pay. I think most people would have accepted this if it were done by The Nexus as opposed to Valve. Valve doesn't need the money and they aren't as invested in the modding community as The Nexus. The Nexus has spent years building its reputation as the place to go for TES mods (and now mods for other games), so it has a bit more skin in the game than Valve does. I think it's still the place to go; I prefer their lack of limitations on file size and the Mod Manager is a blessing for complex mods like SMIM or some shit. Edited by Romanticide, Apr 25 2015, 06:15 AM.
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| Granskjegg | Apr 25 2015, 12:00 AM Post #1228 |
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Eg e husfar.
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I'm a bit divided on the paid mods, on one hand it could lead to more big quality mods, on the other hand it could lead to a lot of shitty mods flooding the workshop. Right now there are a lot of funny ones like the golden potato, the Chicken dovahkiin, the Ultimate Performance Mod and loads more. Thankfully it's not possible to have your mod cost money right off the bat, they need to be up for a certain period of time or get rated by the community before they can be sold. I don't believe people should be able to charge for small mods like "generic cool sword x", bigger ones like "Immersive Armors", "Wet and Cold" and even the unofficial patch mods are ones I wouldn't have a problem paying for. The "pay what you want" feature is nice, but I feel like 40 kroners (or even 20) for something like "Wet and Cold" is a bit steep. If every mod cost 1 or 2 dollars, it would get pretty fucking expensive for the average person that uses mods. I have a bit over 20 mods installed, that's close to half the price of the actual game. But as Gil mentioned, this would require Valve to hire curators, and they obviously don't seem too keen about that. This is still a new concept, it'll be interesting to see how it evolves. Here's to hoping it wont just end up in a mess of troll mods that cost $99. |
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| Outlaw454 | Apr 25 2015, 01:40 AM Post #1229 |
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Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies
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The problem is, with Workshop, you are limited to 100 MB. That rules out the huge quests, Immersive Armor/Weapons, etc. |
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| Granskjegg | Apr 25 2015, 10:29 AM Post #1230 |
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Eg e husfar.
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IIRC Steam recently removed that limit completely (at least for Skyrim). http://www.destructoid.com/no-more-file-size-limit-for-skyrim-mods-on-steam-workshop-288495.phtml http://www.pcgamer.com/skyrim-steam-workshop-mods-can-now-be-bigger-better/ (too lazy to make the links pretty, but there you go) |
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