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- Bitchin' in Purple
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- May 8, 2011
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I think this thread would serve as a good place to post what DLC we have, so it's easier to tailor multiplayer games to what we have. I do feel ghost needs BNW, but even playing G&K would be an improvement over vanilla. >.>
I haz:
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Also, considering our game last night, I figure both you and ghost (probably more so ghost) could use help on what I'd consider the basics. Because this is me, strap yourselves in for a loooooooong post. I assume BNW, standard speed, and not-large/huge maps.
There's even more I could say but this post hits on stuff that will apply most every game.
Civ 5 Tips and Shit 1) Where do I found my capital? This is probably one of the most important decisions you'll make in the entire game. If you can found it by a mountain, on the coast, and by a river/lake (preferably a river, but a lake will work too), DO SO. However, most starts won't give you this combination of desirable traits, so you'll have to compromise.
I tend to found my capital where it'll have the most food/luxuries. That spot will generally be by a river/lake instead of by a mountain, because there might be other mountains there (yay mountain ranges), which means fewer workable tiles. Mountains tend to have more hills by them too, which are useful to have, but unless you're the Inca, you'll want some flatland/river tiles for Farms.
I also prefer founding it on a hill if at all possible. This cuts Scout production from 7 to 5 turns. The earlier you can get Scouts out there, the sooner you can start finding city-states, ruins, other civs, etc. The only thing you're missing out on is the Windmill later, which isn't that great a building. I tend to go with a double Scout opening, so that means I can start things like a Shrine 4 turns earlier.
You might consider turning on the "tile yield" option. It'll let you see what tiles give what bonuses to food/production/etc.
2) What should I build to start the game? If your opening build is not a Scout, you're either on an island or you are doing it wrong. There are no exceptions. As mentioned above, getting Scouts out earlier means you're able to find stuff earlier.
I tend to go double Scout if I'm on a large landmass, like a continent or a Pangaea map. The second Scout should be sent in the opposite direction of the first so it can find more stuff. However, this isn't something I'd consider a must. You could even start on a Worker if you felt you wanted to, a Warrior so you can defend your capital/kill Barbs, or even a Settler if you lucked into a population ruin.
After I've built my Scouts, I've usually finished researching Pottery. If I'm going to take Tradition this game, I build a Shrine. I'll get the Monument for free later. Every turn I have a Shrine is a turn I get closer to a Pantheon. If not, I build my Monument. After the Shrine/Monument, I'll build a Granary for the extra food. It's VERY handy in the early game, but building one also allows you to send food to your other cities if you're so inclined. If I haven't built my Shrine yet, I'll build it after the Granary.
At this point, I'll start building my Settlers. On the higher difficulties, land goes FAST, and you need to lay claim to your land before the AI does. Set the capital to production focus and lock every production tile you're able to. Your city cannot starve when building Settlers, so don't worry about food. By this point you should have found good sites for 1-3 cities, which is all you'll be able to support early, until other civs start getting their hands on luxuries they can trade. I generally build 1-2 to start and leave the 4th for after the National College. This means you probably won't get The Great Library, but it's a gigantic noob trap anyway. You'll be better off getting your cities up than building GL in nearly all cases.
After that, I'll build a Worker or two for my expansion cities. By this point, I've stolen a Worker for at least the capital, but this is not viable on the lower levels because city-states/other civs will take too long to build Workers. It's generally safest to steal one from a city-state; you can declare war, steal the Worker, and make peace all in the same turn. You'll need to ensure the city-state's zone of control won't sap all your movement, so move next to the city-state if you need to *before* you declare war. Steal a Worker twice and the city-state you first declared war with will have the resting point for its influence set to -20. I believe this is permanent, so don't steal the first Worker from one you want to ally.
On higher difficulties (Emperor+), I build some Archers after all this. The other civs know how strong you are and will not hesitate to declare war if you're weak. Early war is not very good in BNW and even Deity AI needs to build troops, so you can usually be assured you won't be DoWed in the first ~75 turns.
3) What should I research first? I research Pottery first almost every time. I *might* go Mining if I have a start that has mostly luxuries that require Mining/Masonry to improve. However, Sailing/Calendar/Writing are all very useful techs and all require you to research Pottery first. Pottery also means you can build Shrines and Granaries, which are very useful buildings no matter what you're trying to do.
I go Mining after that unless I'm Babylon. Babylon wants to rush Writing for the Great Scientist. Everyone else wants Mining for their luxuries/chopping forest. Many luxuries are on forest tiles, and you need to chop them down to improve the tile. You can also "chop rush" for an early Wonder like the GL or Stonehenge, but this isn't a strategy I care for; it's time I could be using to build things that matter more. It works because early Wonders are 125 hammers and you'll get 15-20 hammers for chopping the forest.
I'll *usually* go Calendar next to get dem luxuries, but after the first two you need to pick the techs that will be most useful based on your start position/game plan.
You'll need Writing at some point. I wait until I've founded my first 2-3 cities to research it. There are more useful things to build early in the capital, and your other cities won't be big enough to get any use of of a Library. You're building them in your expansion cities so you can build the National College (requires Philosophy) in your capital earlier. Try to time researching Philosophy so that it happens as soon as possible after you've built all your Libraries.
4) What Social Policy should I take? Well... I take Tradition almost every time. It's much easier to support a small empire than a large one, the Science/Culture penalties aren't as huge, and I feel the Tradition bonuses/policies are more powerful than Liberty in general. Honor and Piety are generally very bad trees for serious games, though Honor is a viable second tree for you warmongering assholes out there. You'll usually have better trees to take than Piety, though.
Alternatively, if you're going to warmonger, open with Honor. This stacks with the Aztecs' UA, making it a viable opener for all Aztec strategies. Its opener has the most impact early, because the 8 culture from Brutes/10 from Spearmen isn't going to cut it later on in the game. If you're lucky, you'll get in a kill or two before you build/get your free Monument, making it all the better. After that, open Liberty and go through the tree. I tend not to like Tradition/Honor because if you're taking Honor, you're saying you want to conquer, and Tradition is for tall (few cities, high population), generally peaceful empires.
I usually take the policies in this order:
Tradition: Legalism -> Landed Elite -> Monarchy -> Aristocracy -> Oligarchy
Legalism is a no-brainer. Free culture buildings = faster policies. Landed Elite is another no-brainer. Faster growth is always good. Monarchy may very well save you from negative GPT early. The Happiness effect is very powerful over the course of a whole game; a good capital will give you 20-25 Happiness from this policy alone. By the time you get Aristocracy, you might be working on your National College (this policy works for National Wonders), or if you're feeling ambitious, your first World Wonder. This stacks with Egypt's UA and the pantheon that lets you build Ancient Era wonders 15% faster. Oligarchy is pretty good for city defense, but you really take this for the closer: 4 free Aqueducts and the ability to buy Great Engineers with faith starting in the Industrial Era.
Liberty: Republic -> Collective Rule -> Citizenship -> Representation -> Meritocracy
You take Republic because it's on the way to Collective Rule. Collective Rule gives you what might be your first Settler. It's been my second Settler in the games I've played recently with Liberty, which isn't *bad* but it means I'm getting little mileage out of faster Settler builds. You have to take Citizenship next. Still, it's a good policy and the extra Worker/faster tile improvements is very useful. I take Representation mostly because my cities aren't connected to the capital this early. Reducing the increase of culture costs is very useful, though. The Golden Age probably isn't so useful at this point, but whatever. You might have your cities connected by the time you take Meritocracy, but again, you take it for the closer. I usually pick a Great Engineer and rush a Wonder. You could take a Scientist, but I find the Engineer to be most useful.
5) What do I prioritize? Science, science, science. This means: Food, food, food.
After I get the essential buildings in the capital and have built my Settlers, I'll usually switch from the default focus (balance of food/production, basically) to food focus. Why? Science is largely tied to population, and food focus will allow me to grow cities more quickly. Sure, I'll be building a lot of things 2-5 turns slower than I otherwise would, but I'll gain an extra citizen that much faster, which means more Science and potentially more hammers to be worked. You can lock a high production tile (3+) if that won't stunt your growth to ensure you build things quicker. Don't waste a Great Engineer on a Manufactory to gain a high production tile. Just... Don't.
I switch to food focus in my expansions when they're around population 5 or so. They need time to get the essential buildings (usually a Library/Granary, in some order) and time to gain more citizens. Switching too early is pointless; every building will take like 30 turns if you switch at pop 2 and lol @ that.
It's not very easy to find the time to build a Caravan or Cargo Ship because the capital build order is very crowded in the first 100 turns and other cities will probably build them sloooooowly, but do try to find it, the sooner the better. I tend to build this after every city has one Worker. By that time, at least one expansion will usually finish its Granary so it can start sending food to the capital. Whenever you research a tech that gives you another trade route, try to work in a Caravan or Cargo ship. I tend to send food from all of my cities to the capital first, then send a food route to each of my cities. The remaining routes are external.
You also want the National College before turn 100. To this end, the Library should be the first or second thing you build in your expansion cities. Ideally you'd time it so that Philosophy is researched around the time you've finished building Libraries, but Philosophy is an expensive tech without Libraries, so you might hold off until they've all been built.
All of this growth will cause a strain on happiness, so you'll probably need to trade for luxuries, buy tiles that have new luxuries (if possible), or even detour to Construction for Colosseums. As long as Happiness is above -10, you're doing alright. It might hit -6 for me at most; -10 is fairly hard to hit unless all your luxes get pillaged or you take over a city or some shit. You'll probably have money problems as well. If you do, try to sell a luxury for 7 GPT to the AI and/or sell off 1 Iron/Horse for 2 GPT to the AI. If you can't do any of this, you need to research Currency ASAP so you can build Markets. Currency is on your desired tech path (to Education), but the longer you can put that off, the better in most cases. Well, unless you have what would be an amazing Petra city.
6) Religion?
I put it here because you'll probably get a religion relatively early, assuming you took a pantheon that gives you faith per turn. If you're the Maya/took a Prophet with the Liberty finisher, that works too.
The pantheon you should take is dependent on your land. Desert Folklore is considered the most powerful pantheon by a long shot, because it adds 1 faith to ALL desert tiles. If you have a good number of desert tiles and some asshole (usually the Celts/Ethiopia) hasn't taken this, you should, no questions asked. Nearly all of them are dependent on your land, but a few are more general in nature/have niche applications. Spain, for example, LOVES One With Nature.
It'll take a while after you found your pantheon to found a religion, but it'll usually happen in the first 100 turns. Once you spawn a Great Prophet, it's time to consider your beliefs.
I usually take Tithe (1 GPT per 4 followers in a city) as my founder belief. It works best if you spread your religion like a motherfucker, but even in a small empire it's one of the more useful founder beliefs. Church Property is basically saying "I didn't get Tithe", which never happens to me. Papal Primacy is worth considering in a diplo game, because if a city-state follows this and you have Consulates, you're bffs 4eva. I find the others too niche to be worth discussing.
My follower beliefs are usually Religious Community (1% production for each follower, up to 15%) and Swords into Plowshares (15% faster growth if not at war). If playing as a warmongerer, the latter is obviously not useful; I'd replace it with Pagodas/Mosques/Monasteries/Cathedrals, whatever is available, for the extra happiness. Divine Inspiration kicks ass if you're playing a culture game and want all the Wonders you'll build to generate faith for you.
Itinerant Preachers or Religious Texts is the best enhancer belief. I've never tried IP, but it allows your religion to pressure cities up to 13 tiles away instead of 10, which would be handy on larger maps.
7) I've survived the early game. Now what?
After you've built your National College, which is what I define as the end of the "early game", you can build that 4th city if you haven't. I find that building 4 before the NC sets it back an unacceptable amount, so I usually don't. It also usually strains my happiness too much.
Your tech path should be a beeline to Education. If you reach this ~T110-120, you're playing a good game. Universities are the most important buildings in the game; they come with two Scientist slots. The other science buildings have only one. I might detour for Iron Working/Construction, depends on the game. Detouring for Sailing/Optics on an Archipelago map goes without saying, though you can generally hold off on these techs until they take ~5 turns to research. You need Sailing before Education on an Archipelago map; Triremes are how you'll scout.
Obviously, build Universities ASAP. Staff them with Scientists once a city reaches size 10 and won't have under 10 food after being staffed. This assumes food focus; it's acceptable to have under 10 food on production focus.
As for what to build other than Universities: Well, buildings that give your city extra food/production are always useful. If your city is on a river/lake, you can build the Water Mill, and if it has improved Stone/Marble, it can build Stone Works for extra production and happiness. Build Workshops ASAP so you can put the Ironworks in your least productive city and get it up to snuff. If you haven't already built Markets, get them up; you'll need the money. If you're going to warmonger, now wouldn't be such a bad time to get Barracks/start building some more troops. Send them out to fight Barbs to work towards promotions/alliances with city-states. If you're going for Culture, you should build Amphitheaters. What you build often depends on what you need; not every building is useful for every game.
I usually don't attempt a Wonder until after NC. You unlock the Oracle when you research Philosophy and it gives you a free social policy, so it's a very good Wonder. The AI doesn't prize it as highly as other Wonders either, so you might be able to get it. Even so, I only try this if it'll take me ~9-12 turns to build; there are other things to build. Other than that, I usually don't attempt a Wonder until the Renaissance Era; that's when some of the really good Wonders become available and when I'll start pulling ahead in tech so there will be less competition.
The next tech beeline is *probably* Astronomy. This will take ~10-20 turns after Education, but you want the Observatory and/or Caravel ASAP in most games. Observatories are great science buildings, whereas Caravels will allow you to meet civs overseas. You might not need either in some games, however. If you don't need/got Astronomy, the next target is Printing Press (~T150-160), for the World Congress/Leaning Tower of Pisa. The Leaning Tower of Pisa is an EXTREMELY powerful Wonder, and while you were working towards it, you unlocked Workshops/Ironworks, which will help you build it faster. The Great Person bonus is very powerful, and the free Great Person (PROTIP: Take the Engineer) is awesome.
You've probably noticed most beelines are to science techs. Reaching them faster allows you to pick up all of the techs you're skipping over that much sooner, as opposed to getting a few really fast. The final two are Scientific Theory (~T180-190) and Plastics (~T240-250), which you predictably want to get to ASAP. You'll have a ton of infrastructure to build in the Industrial Era, but you should prioritize Public Schools, Factories, and Hospitals, in that order. There will be less in the Modern Era unless you're playing culturally, in which case there are Broadcast Towers and a whole slew of Wonders to aim for, in addition to Research Labs.
8) Spies, wut do?
This is relatively simple: Check the technology score. Click the little globe icon, hover over everyone's score, and note their technology scores. You get 4 points per tech, so tech score/4 = number of techs everyone has researched. If you are the tech leader/near the tech leader, leave your spy in the capital. You want to keep your advantage. If you're not (I'd say this is >5 techs behind), go out and try to steal.
Your first spy should reach level 3 by the time you get your second spy, which is when you reach the Industrial Era. When you get this spy, pick a city-state and send your first spy there to rig elections. When the chance to coup is ~85%, attempt a coup. It'll succeed most of the time. If it fails, you'll get a replacement in a few turns. Level the new spy up to 3 however you choose. I usually have one spy in the capital at all times, but I'm also usually competing for the tech lead. You get a new spy per era, so rinse and repeat.
You can also use them as diplomats, but I find this is a more niche option. If I propose something like Science Funding, I'll send diplomats to other civs in an attempt to buy votes for it because the AI hates this proposal. They should really patch it so more AI like this one but whatever. Other uses for diplomats include offsetting most of the tourism penalty for differing ideologies (-9% instead of -34%) and gaining additional delegates once you research Globalization (+2 delegates per diplomat).
9) How many cities should I found and when should I stop founding them?
If you're playing Tradition, the bonuses of that tree are tailored to a 4 city empire, so that's about the point where you'd stop. However, if you can found/support a 5th city before T200 (I'd consider this THE cutoff in most games, though it's rare I found a city after T150), go ahead and do so. I'd have to have a really good spot to justify a 5th city though.
If you're playing Liberty, I don't have a definitive number for you because I don't play it much, but I'd say it's best to stop founding cities when there's no more good land available. From there, I'd start warmongering (if that's the plan) or transition into a peaceful victory.
Why is it best to stop founding cities after a certain point? Social policy costs go up 10% for each city you found, which is a pretty hefty amount for a city that might not support itself culturally. More importantly than that, there is a 5% increase in tech costs per city. (It's only 2% on huge and I believe large maps, though don't quote me on large.) I'm pretty sure this is additive instead of multiplicative, but the important thing is, it adds up fairly quickly, and it becomes harder to make up for the increase in tech costs later in the game. I'll illustrate this with some tech costs, before and after founding a second city.
Ancient Era: Pottery: 35 beakers/36.75 beakers Calendar: 55 beakers/57.75 beakers
Each of these techs will take you ~10 turns to research, and the extra 1 BPT just for founding a city will actually make it faster to research these very early techs. You get cities down in the early game so the penalty doesn't affect you much, if at all. Just make sure they're on good dirt so they can grow nice and big.
Classical Era: Philosophy: 175 beakers/183.75 beakers
This is a very expensive tech for the early game, but even so that's still less than a 1 BPT increase in cost. Again, made up by plopping down a city. By this point I usually have 3 cities but whatever.
Medieval Era: Education: 485 beakers/509.25 beakers
Again, an expensive tech when you're likely going for it, but because it'll take 10-15 turns, the cost increase isn't much more than 1 BPT. Still, that second city will take some time to pull its own weight, especially once you get into the Renaissance. It'll likely do so after you grow it a bit and build a Library/University.
Some other techs/their costs:
Printing Press: 780 beakers/814 beakers Architecture: 1150 beakers/1207.5 beakers Scientific Theory: 1600 beakers/1680 beakers Steam Power: 2350 beakers/2467.5 beakers Radio: 3100 beakers/3255 beakers Plastics: 4100 beakers/4305 beakers
I tend not to found cities after T150, as I've said. I'm on my way to or researching Printing Press at about that time. T200 will have me around Rifling or Steam Power, it depends on the game. It gets harder to make up the increase in costs around the time the Industrial Era starts, because you'll have to grow your cities and build each of the science buildings, which takes time. By this point, you should be preparing for your core cities to get the awesome new infrastructure of the era, as opposed to also having to worry about getting new cities up to snuff.
10) Ideology?
Ideology is heavily dependent on your objective. If you're trying to conquer the world, Freedom will do you no favors in that area, for example.
If you're a warmongerer, you're taking Autocracy. The only "must-haves" are Elite Forces (a weaker version of Japan's UA), Nationalism (33% unit maintenance reduction), and Clausewitz's Legacy (25% attack bonus for 50 turns). Everything else depends on how you'll conquer the world.
Freedom is more reliable for culture IMO. Avant Grade, Civil Society, Universal Suffrage, and Media Culture are all great tenets no matter what, whereas Order's Cultural Revolution and Dictatorship of the Proletariat tenets are situational. Order has the potential to give you 68% bonus Tourism opposed to Freedom's 34%, but how often will that be happening? On lower difficulties, a good game will be over before most/all AIs take an ideology. On higher difficulties, the other civs might be happier than you.
If you're playing for a science win, Freedom and Order are both viable. Order has what I'd argue is the best single tenet in the game, that being Worker's Faculties. 25% extra science for a building every city wants anyway (Factory) is amazing, and being able to build it in half the time is the cherry on top. Freedom and Order have a tenet that allows you to generate Great People 25% faster, and they both have a tenet that allows you to rush spaceship parts. I'd say Freedom's is better because it relies on Gold (more reliable) as opposed to Faith, but both are very good. Freedom gets the better ideology Wonder by far, too; the Statue of Liberty is one of the game's best Wonders. My pick would depend on the amount of faith I can generate. If it's over 25 FPT there's no question; take Order and save faith for Great Engineers at the end.
I'd go Freedom for diplomacy. Autocracy might be doable considering the Gunboat Diplomacy tenet allows you to gain 6 more influence if you can demand tribute from a city-state (send your army of ballers around the world threatening city-states), but it has nothing else that will help you. Freedom has Treaty Organzation, which will allow you to gain 4 influence per turn if you have a trade route with a city-state, but more importantly it has Covert Action, which doubles your spies' chances of rigging city-state elections. You should be rigging city-state elections with level three spies *anyway*. You could also take Arsenal of Democracy, build hella Scouts and gift them to city-states for 15 influence per, but this assumes you have fuck all to do, which is rarely the case.
11) Help me pick a wincon?
Some civs lend themselves to certain wincons. Japan is probably not best suited for a diplomatic victory, Venice probably won't win through science, etc. A civilization's Unique Ability (UA) has the most influence when it comes to determining what civs are good for what wincons. Almost everyone has a Unique Unit (UU), but that does not necessarily mean you should try to conquer the world with it. A lot of civs have a Unique Building (UB) and/or a Unique Improvement (UI), but they usually aren't good enough to dictate a wincon in and of themselves.
I'll just pick some civs you should consider for each wincon. Many civs can do one or two wincons well, but these are fairly obvious simply from their UAs, or in the Inca's case, their bias/UI. (hills and Terrace Farms = huge cities, lots of science)
Domination: The Zulu, The Huns, Mongolia Culture: Brazil, France, Egypt Science: Babylon, Korea, The Inca Diplomacy: Greece, Siam, Venice
Poland can do practically anything thanks to its UA and is arguably the most powerful civilization in the game. It's even viable to take *Piety* with them, which should tell you something about their power. Not many civs can claim that. If there's something you want to learn, Poland can probably help.
However, it can change based on how the game is going. If you've been beaten to many/all of the culture Wonders, culture won't go well for you. If Greece/Siam are in the game, good luck with diplomacy. Even so, I'd say all but culture are relatively easy to do for a beginner. Culture is... different... and you should probably work on your game before attempting it, at least at your normal difficulty. Maybe drop down if you want to try it at first, idk.
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