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Yamcha (23rd) vs. Goku (post Sacred Water)
Topic Started: Jun 29 2015, 07:18 AM (379 Views)
Mike
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Super Saiya-jin Grade 3
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Who winz
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Koshka
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Son Goku should take this easily IMO. There were never any statements to suggest Kuririn/Yamucha > Son Goku (Post) or Piccolo Daimao. The first statement about him being surpassed was about Tenshinhan doing it.

And this doesn't prove anything, but it seems implied that Cyborg Tao Pai Pai is > Yamucha at least and it's really hard to imagine that somebody who is above Piccolo Daimao got treated that badly in the first fight of this arc.

Anime-wise Yamucha could win considering how confident he was at the thought of fighting a Goku who had trained for 3 more years.
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Tenshinhan had a moderate advantage over a Goku stated to be as fast as three years before. Krillin/Yamcha
are moderately weaker than that Tien. So, this is a great fight.
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Mike
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Koshka
Jun 29 2015, 01:58 PM
Son Goku should take this easily IMO. There were never any statements to suggest Kuririn/Yamucha > Son Goku (Post) or Piccolo Daimao. The first statement about him being surpassed was about Tenshinhan doing it.

And this doesn't prove anything, but it seems implied that Cyborg Tao Pai Pai is > Yamucha at least and it's really hard to imagine that somebody who is above Piccolo Daimao got treated that badly in the first fight of this arc.

Anime-wise Yamucha could win considering how confident he was at the thought of fighting a Goku who had trained for 3 more years.
Well, I don't think Cyborg Taopaipai is actually stronger than Krillin or Yamcha. I just think they overestimated him.

Taopaipai was Ten's bitch for the entirety of their match, and the latter wasn't even going all out. Yamcha was suggested to be a worthy opponent by Shen.

Yamcha could also keep up with Goku and Tenshinhan's movements while Taopaipai couldn't keep track of a slower Tenshinhan, for what's that worth. (Although I guess you could write that off as an inconsistency like Kaioshin, Base Goku, and Piccolo keeping track of Super Buu/SS3 Gotenks despite the 1000x+ gap there.)
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Koshka
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Vegetto
Jun 30 2015, 08:10 AM
Well, I don't think Cyborg Taopaipai is actually stronger than Krillin or Yamcha. I just think they overestimated him.

Taopaipai was Ten's bitch for the entirety of their match, and the latter wasn't even going all out. Yamcha was suggested to be a worthy opponent by Shen.

Yamcha could also keep up with Goku and Tenshinhan's movements while Taopaipai couldn't keep track of a slower Tenshinhan, for what's that worth. (Although I guess you could write that off as an inconsistency like Kaioshin, Base Goku, and Piccolo keeping track of Super Buu/SS3 Gotenks despite the 1000x+ gap there.)
Yamucha wanting to gang up on Tao Pai Pai after he cut Tenshinhan suggests he's below Tao Pai Pai IMO but to each their own.

I don't think it's possible to take anything concrete from Shen's comment personally. Tenshinhan is >>> Yamucha and Shen is stronger than what Tenshinhan believes is possible. Piccolo praised Kuririn by saying taking over the world wouldn't be as easy he thought too... yet a completely wrecked Piccolo who can barely stand or keep his eyes open is still powerful enough to take out Kuririn and two people stronger than him at once.

The thing about Yamucha keeping up with Son/Ten's movements is a great point. Not sure how to counter that just yet.

There's a lot of cases of really weak people seeing really strong people's movements, but since it was specifically stated that Yamucha was good enough to see them this most likely isn't just Toriyama overlooking power gaps IMO.
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Mike
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I agree things like keeping up with movements are inconsistent (Piccolo keeping up with Gotenks/Buu), but like you said, it was specifically pointed out in this scenario, and also, there's this:
Spoiler: click to toggle

When Goku couldn't be kept track of, Toriyama went out of his way to show it with Kami-sama's reaction. So it's possible during the 23rd he was being consistent with things like that, but I admit it is a heavy assumption.
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Koshka
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That's an interesting point. I've never seen anybody bring that up before. I concede since I can't counter that.

At the very least then, based on speed/seeing feats: Yamucha > 66% Piccolo Daimao > Cyborg Tao Pai Pai

I'm still not sold on Yamucha being able to beat Son Goku (Post) or Piccolo Daimao since it seems like he and Kuririn wouldn't be so shocked by Tenshinhan's overall power if he was only as quick or slower than they were IMO, but you proved he has to be at least over 66% of him.

Quote:
 
Chapter: 170, P13.3-4
Kame-sennin: “Wow…To think that he’s grown into that great a martial artist…I no longer have any role to play at all…”
Yamcha: “Boy, I give up…”
Kuririn: “Maybe he’s a little too strong…”
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