| Mafia Open #2 Post-game | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 13 2016, 05:13 PM (215 Views) | |
| EOE | Dec 13 2016, 05:13 PM Post #1 |
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Roles Night Actions The game started off really well in terms of activity then kind of fell off. Town was a mess and Mafia could have just rolled with it and won. The Mafia's planning was really fun to watch though. I would like to have seen more mind games during Night 1. If you are a PR, look like a Villager, if you're a Villager, look like a PR, more talk of strategy regarding the roles and interactions etc. There were a lot of weird interactions in terms of powers and kills this game too:
Mafia picking up on Colly being a power role due to his response to being Hooked was very good. Fighta's deductions during Night 2 were really impressive too. Spotting that blue_persil was Charasmatic due to the vote counts, and Colly wasn't Cop due to Verdant's claim and Colly's soft-claim that he was hooked Night 1. I'm surprised Mafia didn't agree to kill blue_persil and win at this point! Colly's Day 1 post responding to kerbykong's misinterpretation of his post was so good, it made Colly look very towny. I liked blue_persil's first post about Skarfelt random voting to draw attention away from the Night 1 kill. I think you needed more content in your post though. You needed to give everyone a reason to read you as town, because you had already been acting suspicious by lurking and not posting anything. I liked that you were assertive vs Skarfelt though, as a lot of people are very easily swayed and backed down when there was even a hint of opposition. Lupin and Verdant should have plotted together more. Get Verdant to claim Cop, force a Mafia to counterclaim, or Verdant gets protected by the Doc and leads Town for the rest of the game while Lupin's identity as actual Cop is hidden. Tactics like this aren't immediately obvious but just keep them in mind for future games. Also if you are getting lynched and are a power role, claim it. You can't afford to be mislynched Day 1/2 as Cop or Doc. If anything, this game shows how attentive you have to be to reading the thread and staying active. Lupin knew that Verdant was inno Day 1 and Colly knew that kerbykong was guilty Day 2, but both Cop and Doc were lynched those days due to inactivity. Should we have a longer waiting time between games next time or were people just unsure of what to do? Maybe having more roles was a bad idea, as people seemed a lot more comfortable with their Villager roles in game 1. Leave any thoughts below! |
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| Colly | Dec 13 2016, 05:28 PM Post #2 |
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I AM CAPTAIN IDIOT |
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| kerbykong | Dec 13 2016, 05:33 PM Post #3 |
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whaaaat, did Colly even post day 2 I can't see it |
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| Skarfelt | Dec 13 2016, 05:38 PM Post #4 |
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I think the setup was a bit Scum-sided but, honestly, it kinda felt like we could have coasted and still won. I think it's fair to say that a huge part of the game was dominated by my posting constantly so if I just hadn't done that, we could have just strolled to victory. I'm pretty disappointed that Colly didn't post his Guilty before we won though, that would have made Day 2 really interesting. I didn't get a chance to post my breadcrumb (look at the first letter of my first three posts Day 1) which I really wanted as a trump card. I feel like odd numbered players is weird for Night start, similar to how even is weird for Day start. Even if the game was cut to 3 Maf vs 8 Townies, it'd be 3v7 Day 1 then MYLO Day 2. I've seen something done in other places where they still play Night start but it starts on "Night Zero" which basically means every role can work except the Mafia's kill. This also removes the fact that SuperChar signed up and wasn't allowed to play while still giving people more stuff to do Day 1. Also, I apologise if I came across as a dick - part of my gameplan was to just strangle all information Town was trying to put out and I did so by basically putting others down when I could. Recognise that I do not really think that everyone's useless. Incidentally, I'm super glad that people picked up on my gameplan (become town leader, suffocate information) because it shows how good the games here are gonna be in the future. I'm not planning to play every single game this aggro, of course, because I want to mix up how I play so that people don't go "As Mafia he always did X and as Town he always did Y" etc. etc. But yeah, this game definitely had a few teething issues. No Reveal allowed us to plan some really interesting things as Mafia but I can imagine being pretty irritated playing it as Town, especially considering major Power Roles could die Night 1 out of nowhere. If the Mortician dies Night 1, that totally changes the game and nobody's even aware of it. I'd be willing to try it again to see how it is from a Town perspective, though. Outside communication goes really well with No Reveal. I think that Mafia being able to talk during the day is like totally broken though. We were able to quote entire posts to each other before posting them so that everybody looked as genuine as possible. One of the big talents of playing as Mafia to me is being able to read your buddies' thoughts. For example, I didn't go into Day 1 planning to lightly bus AN2 but I ended up doing so because I wrote myself into a corner. I was able to tell him "don't panic, it's not meant to be a lynch" in the Mafia Discord but if I didn't have that, it'd be on AN2 to try and work out what my intentions were while simultaneously not giving me away which is more interesting. I also liked having more Power Roles but just basically none really got the chance to be used. I thinking having a few more VTs is important though to give Mafia a swarm of people to hide in for claims while also making the game come more down to deduction. Considering Mafia won the last two games (though Open #1 was largely because of modkills tbf), it might be fair to make the setups a bit more Town sided. It does make sense, of course - playing as Town is harder as an inexperienced player as you can't coast - but it's food for thought. Overall I enjoyed playing again as this was my first time in like four or five years. I think I'd like to mod next time and try some other rule stipulations but I'll see what everyone else thinks first. |
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| Colly | Dec 13 2016, 05:39 PM Post #5 |
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I didnt get to post day 2 lmao, i had been offline since the DP began Me hinting to be hooked was pretty stupid though. I shouldn't have even hinted at having a role until I actually made use of it. Really no reason for me to do that. |
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| Skarfelt | Dec 13 2016, 05:45 PM Post #6 |
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I actually hard read you being Tracker specifically in the Mafia Discord which is pretty funny. I was Ninja which meant I couldn't be Tracked so I was strongly considering claiming I was RB'd N2 in case the Tracker went on me but then I didn't think I'd have enough leverage to actually sway Town. The original idea was to just lynch my Cop counterclaim but when none came I was like a'ight just kill CTurtle lol. |
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| Lupin | Dec 13 2016, 07:15 PM Post #7 |
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I really should have logged on Saturday night, I don't think there needs to be a categorical change, I just genuinely forgot because I was so exhausted after CC, I feel kerbykong's reason for lynching me definitely had a lot of holes which I could have brought into the conversation if I had literally just opened the tab lol. Overall having Cop/Vigi as a team night 1 was way too OP for us to go out like that, I actually was internally working through some sort of strategy like EOE suggested, but I didn't get that far lol. Also Jonty that C-O-P play was too next level, good stuff. You definitely did excellently and I was going to investigate you night 2 but again, didn't get that far. Pretty happy BP and I managed to at least arouse suspicion around you though, even if I didn't go anywhere in the end. Well played everyone, can't wait for next game. |
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| blue_persil | Dec 13 2016, 07:19 PM Post #8 |
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"If you are a PR, look like a Villager, if you're a Villager, look like a PR, more talk of strategy regarding the roles and interactions etc." Everyone was a PR though. In my case there was a 50/50 chance I was charismatic villager which turned out to be true. |
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| Skarfelt | Dec 13 2016, 07:35 PM Post #9 |
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Setup balance is pretty tricky to get exactly right I think. You have to look at your initial numbers and then decide which faction should have more powerful roles. In this game, Scum had a massive advantage in numbers but Town had four extremely powerful roles in Cop/Tracker/Doc/Mortician and its other roles weren't bad either. I think it's fair to say that with this many Mafia, Town should have that many PRs but I'd say that Mafia just had too many members. With one less Mafia, there could be one more VT but yeah. One thing Jordan wanted to do with the setup (if I recall our discussions correctly) was to give everyone a role and some more reason to be invested. Even the VTs had some kind of role. There's definitely tons of value to be had in VTs though like I said further up. Regarding the schedule for games, when do people wanna do the next one? People are going to have much more time over the holidays I'd imagine but maybe people want a break over that time as well. What do you all think? |
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| Lupin | Dec 13 2016, 07:43 PM Post #10 |
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ASAP lol, I want the redemption |
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| Fighta | Dec 13 2016, 08:15 PM Post #11 |
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As far as the last game goes, my one main concern was the whole Charismatic Villager, because it introduced an element where we could have won by the end of Day 1 if things went perfectly. But I think charismatic was more of a fix for having less entrants than the setup originally required. Other than that, the mafia having the ability to check each other's messages before they send them might be a bit too strong. I think it's ok to discuss during the day and give points that could be used to frame/defend someone, but letting the whole message gets checked just lets more inexperienced players (*cough* me *cough*) rely on the more experienced players to make sure that i'm not screwing up, which kind of removes some of the point of the game. |
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| Fighta | Dec 13 2016, 08:19 PM Post #12 |
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Oh yeah as far as the next game goes I'm alright to do it whenever everyone else is. This one was fairly short (under half of what the last one took if I'm remembering properly) so I'd be alright with another one starting this month, but if people want to leave it till January that's fine by me |
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| EOE | Dec 13 2016, 09:32 PM Post #13 |
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If a less experienced player is making a well educated post, would that not be suspicious? Playing as Mafia is mostly about replicating your town play. For that reason, I don't think Mafia checking each other's posts is op, though it does mean slips are less likely. |
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| Skarfelt | Dec 14 2016, 12:30 AM Post #14 |
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I don't think that element specifically is the OP one, it's just how the Mafia can flex their strategy on the fly. To me, assuming Colly had signed on and posted his Guilty, Day 2 would have been really exciting if the Mafia couldn't communicate. One member is fake claiming Cop, another has a Guilty on them - how do the Mafia adapt to the Tracker's Guilty? Do the other Mafia members distance themselves or do they knuckle down and go all out for the wagon on CTurtle/Colly? Like I said, I think having the ability to adapt to the behaviour of the other members of your team is a Mafia skill. |
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| blue_persil | Dec 14 2016, 06:27 PM Post #15 |
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Just wondering, if Colly had been lynched Day 2 would the game have proceeded to Night 3 since the vigilante, doctor and charismatic villager were still alive? |
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| EOE | Dec 15 2016, 01:26 AM Post #16 |
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No, because even with a Doc save, it would still have been 4v4 Day 3 in terms of MafiavTown votes. Once the Mafia votes and Town votes match, the Mafia wins because it would result in a stalemate otherwise. |
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| blue_persil | Dec 15 2016, 06:45 PM Post #17 |
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The vigilante could kill a mafia player though, right? Let's say on night 2 the hooker targets the charismatic villager, the mafia try to kill the vigilante, the doc saves the vigilante and the vigilante kills one of the mafia. Very unlikely but it could happen as far as I can tell. Day 3 would start with 4 town votes versus 3 mafia votes. |
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| CTurtle | Dec 15 2016, 07:33 PM Post #18 |
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The vigilante all ready used his shot though it no longer was an option. |
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