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| Mafia Open #3 - Day 1 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 19 2016, 04:57 PM (695 Views) | |
| Skarfelt | Dec 19 2016, 04:57 PM Post #1 |
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Role List Role List FAQ The Rules Game Specific Rules Player List
Edited by Skarfelt, Dec 21 2016, 10:55 PM.
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| Fighta | Dec 27 2016, 06:43 AM Post #26 |
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There's pros and cons to both, really: -If we lynch, there's a chance of hitting mafia, but there's also a chance of hitting a townie or the independent. We don't really have a strong lead on anyone, just a couple of suspicious actions (Verdant's revenge voting, Lupin's defence (although I'm possibly pushing him too hard on that and it was just a joke, idk, it just feels like it's too easy a way of brushing it off). So here's a question to everyone: If we were to vote someone off today, who would it be? -If we don't lynch, we eliminate the risk of mislynching (because how can you mislynch if you don't even lynch)- but the mafia walks in and takes a free kill. This doesn't really give the regular townspeople a lot to work off of, but at least gives our investigative roles another night of reports, assuming they make it through the night. In the end, it's really down to how much you think a lynch will get us. I'm not completely against the idea, I'd just like something a bit more solid before I commit to something. Also, seeing as I'm assuming there's an extension, can I get an updated vote count (because I'm not sure what counts as abstaining and voting to not kill anyone)? Unless there's no extension and this whole post is useless, in which case, uh, oops. |
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| blue_persil | Dec 27 2016, 11:21 AM Post #27 |
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VOTE No Lynch It seems like a decent idea. Right now few people, if any, are above suspicion and I don't think anyone is standing out. |
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| Skarfelt | Dec 27 2016, 02:56 PM Post #28 |
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Vote Count 1.1 No Lynch (4): RedSlasher, Fighta, CTurtle, Blue Persil Lupin(2): Colly, MagiMagi Verdant (2): Redslasher, Jeshter Jeshter (1): Verdant MagiMagi (1): CaptainAsherz Redslasher (1): Lupin Not Voting: Kerbykong The deadline has been extended 24 hours but no further. Day will end at 8pm tonight on the 27th of December. |
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| Jeshter | Dec 27 2016, 10:35 PM Post #29 |
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Oh yeah, I did forget that no-lynching gives us less chance of killing a power role, meaning they can potentially hit mafia tonight. I agree with that then. Vote: No Lynch |
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| CTurtle | Dec 28 2016, 01:45 AM Post #30 |
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I think everyone should take this quote in. I think it's a bit weird how passive of an act it is to not try and stick to your reasoning unless there is a better reason. Not the most shady thing but it's still a bit weird. |
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| Skarfelt | Dec 28 2016, 12:13 PM Post #31 |
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Nobody was lynched. Fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. No story for you guys cuz you're so boring. It is now Night 1! Day 2 will begin at 8pm on the 30th of December or when everybody has sent me confirmation that they wish to end the Night. Remember, people will die tonight! Edited by Skarfelt, Dec 28 2016, 12:14 PM.
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| Skarfelt | Jan 4 2017, 07:22 PM Post #32 |
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Okay so due to me having very little time in the near future and everyone playing Day 1 like they were being forced to at gunpoint, I've decided to abandon this game and simply make another one down the line when people have more interest. I'm also going to take some time to explain what was done wrong in this game and how activity can improve in the next game. There seems to be this belief that evidence can only be gained overnight. At least, I assume this is the case based on the fact the game No Lynched. Let's back up a bit and think about what No Lynching actually does for the Town. Assuming that town Lynches every day and Mafia kills every night, the player numbers will be as follows; Day 1 - 11 Players Day 2 - 9 Players Day 3 - 7 Players Day 4 - 5 Players Day 5 - 3 Players Day 6 - GG So the game can go until Day 6 at the very latest. Also, assuming Town mislynches and lynches Town Days 1 to 3, Day 4 is LYLO which means they must lynch Mafia or they lose. Day 5 will also be LYLO assuming they lynch correctly. Now, let's assume you guys No Lynch Day 1; Day 1 - 11 Players Day 2 - 10 Players Day 3 - 8 Players Day 4 - 6 Players Day 5 - 4 Players Day 6 - GG We see in this scenario that the game lasts the same amount of days but with an important difference - there are 6 players alive on Day 4, not 5. What this means is that Town is in MYLO which means that if the Town mislynches today, they lose, but if they No Lynch they still have another Day. This mean that Town is forced to No Lynch on Day 4 assuming they No Lynched on any previous Day and they go into LYLO on Day 5 instead - if they don't NL on Day 4, they have a 2/6 chance of hitting Mafia compared to 2/5 so obviously the latter is better. In theory this sounds good - Town gets an extra day of discussion and an extra Night of reports before LYLO. In practice, however, this is very very bad. In the first scenario, Town enters LYLO having performed three lynches and had four nights of reports. There is now a lot of information to be garnered here. Remember that if Town is lynched, you can go back and read who was pushing pressure on that person, who was distancing themselves from it, who had flimsy reasoning to join it. Similarly, if Mafia is lynched, you can go back and read who was defending them, who was trying to get as far away from the wagon as possible, who was jumping on to bus their ally and so on. Having an extra lynch is much more important than having an extra Night, especially as that extra Night is spend with little to no information. Let's say that Lupin or Verdant were lynched Day 1 and they flip Town/Scum or whatever. The Tracker and Santa can now look at who was involved in both lynches and draw lots of suspicions themselves to follow up on. Instead, the Town No Lynched. They now go into the Night still with no concrete evidence and their track/present are, again, just wild shots in the dark. tl;dr: No Lynching when an odd number of players are alive is bad don't do it More importantly than all of that, though, I want to talk about the actual gameplay of today. I don't believe that any member of the game went into Day 1 with a gameplan. I appreciate posts like Redslasher's here to think critically with little evidence - the post does have a few mistakes in it like saying "I won't vote who I'm suspicious of cuz that would be suspicious" but I'll put that down to this being Andrew's first game. That said, there were next to zero other useful posts in the Day. There seemed to be an attitude of "welp, we dunno what happened, we can't do anything, onto tomorrow". But there was evidence and discussion-material - the setup. Town had three Power Roles, a potential extra Ally in Oogie Boogie and a mindgame minigame going on with The Grinch vs Santa. There is a lot of room for discussion here. Nobody needs to outright claim Day 1, of course, but there's nothing stopping a player from saying "So, how should we effectively be using the Santa role?" Santa is able to send personal messages so maybe try to discuss making a code that only Santa and the recipient of the present would know. Maybe discuss who should receive presents to try and bait The Grinch into using his power. Maybe Player A believes that nobody should open their presents until late game where they have more information whereas Player B believes they should all be opened right away so that if one's a bomb, it can be ruled out immediately. Outside of that, there's also a Tracker in the game. It stands to reason that the Tracker is one of the most powerful roles in the game as a standard investigation role and, thus, the Doc present recipient will want to be on them. As a result, it's more likely that The Grinch will sabotage that present and leave the other ones okay. Similarly, Santa is going to want to make sure that the Cop investigates them so that when they claim later on, Cop can back them up. There's also the Rudolph role. How and when should that be used? Town can discuss the timing of this one-shot power and how to most effectively set up the game for Rudolph to confirm as many members of Town as possible. Maybe all recipients should wait until after a certain point to open their presents so that Rudolph can confirm Santa first and then they can narrow out who got The Grinch's present. After all, if two people say that their present started with a codeword and the other person's did not, that person has probably been sabotaged by The Grinch. I haven't even started talking about Oogie Boogie, a role who can choose to join either Mafia or Town. It's clearly in Town's best interests to get him to join them so they should discuss how to best use his role to make him want to join them - talk about confirming him at the same time as they confirm Santa and so on. The thing is, it's not like I thought about all of that when making the setup. Those were just a few things I thought of off the top of my head when writing this post. I don't want anybody to feel discouraged and like I'm slamming you all for being mega bad or something because that's not the case. However, I think there's a fundamental flaw with the way the game is being played right now and I'm coincidentally too busy to mod for a while anyway so I might as well bring it up now before the next game. I feel like people are playing with a fear that's stopping them from committing to anything. It is okay to be wrong. If you are Town and you think A, but A is actually incorrect, it's okay to admit that you made a mistake and then carry on with the game. Your number one priority is finding the Mafia, not surviving until the end. If you die horribly in a lynch Day 1 but win the game Day 5, you still win. The only players who have something to hide are the Mafia. By all means, it's fine to have some private thoughts - not every read needs to be out on the table all the time, you don't need to role claim constantly etc. but you have nothing to lose by saying "I think this player is suspicious and I will vote for them". If questioned why, back it up with your thoughts. After all, your thoughts are town-y because you are town. By not committing to anything and playing with constant hesitation, this only benefits Mafia who are able to slip under the radar. I guarantee you that Mafia want there to be less activity so they can just coast to free wins. So with all those discussion points above, you may be thinking "yeah but none of those have anything to do with who's Town and who's Mafia" but it is still discussion. Discussion into how the setup should be optimally played for Town is something Mafia, obviously, do not want to see. Members of Mafia may try to sabotage Town in some way by posting seemingly well-reasoned ideas for how the setup should be played that allow them to fit into a ConfTown status or by letting them slide under the radar when it comes to claiming time. Mafia may ask players to claim preemptively or try to goad priority targets into softclaiming or generally role fishing. When any form of discussion happens, remember that Mafia are always lying. When Mafia says "we", it is a lie. So that's a super mega long post that was basically stream of consciousness. I apologise for cancelling the game and I apologise if I came across as harsh and I apologise if you were genuinely excited for Day 2. Of course, this will not be the last Mafia game. I think that taking some more time between them is also generally a good idea but I need the time to devote to modding anyway. As an aside, if anybody here wants to try modding (it's really not very hard) then feel free to throw your name into the hat and we'll see about doing it. Thread is open for discussion, game is over now (because I just told Town what to do basically so that's kind of unfair to throw into the game in the middle of the game) so I can reveal roles if people want yeah idk bye |
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| Fighta | Jan 4 2017, 09:39 PM Post #33 |
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In case you're wondering who the mafia were this game, it was me (the Grinch) and Verdant (Scrooge). Here's a link to the discord in case you were wondering how that went: https://discord.gg/HAat8r3 (there isn't as much as last game's because we couldn't talk during the day) Night actions for us were as follows: Nothing night 0 (so yeah, in the end we only got a cop present out of the night and maybe tracker getting santa) Night 1 we killed magi, set the bomb (which I believe was sent to Kerby, god knows if he opened it) and redirected Lupin's power onto Colly (I don't even know if that did anything). As for the whole abstaining day 1 thing, the main reason I pushed for that was because I was pretty sure Verdant'd be the one on the chopping block if we went for a lynch, so obviously I wanted to avoid losing my only teammate if possible. I wasn't very fond of how it was set up, but that might just be me being pessimistic: -A single report could wipe out half of us -I couldn't see any reason for Oogie Boogie to help the mafia, so he may as well have been another investigative town role -If one of us died the other person was on their own of a town of up to 8 people. -Rudolph could have forced all the PRs to claim on day 2, because i'm pretty sure that the entire mafia still showed up for a kill (this really depended on a lot of things though- rudolph using night 1, claiming all PRs day 2, everyone believing the claim and the PRs all actually claiming. it still caused me to think a lot, and I didn't fancy our chances even with a roleclaim) A lot of these issues probably come down to me not knowing anything about mafia but that's how it looks to me. I was kind of looking forward to the challenge though, but I guess we'll never see how it would have turned out. (at least we've got some more stuff we can do day 1 though!) If the next game's late jan/early feb I probably won't get to play either because mockssssssssssssssss but hopefully i'll be back after that |
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| Fighta | Jan 4 2017, 09:51 PM Post #34 |
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on a less serious note: -how did i get mafia two games in a row -still haven't had anyone vote for me, i'm pretty sure -i really wanted an investigative role ;( |
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| Skarfelt | Jan 4 2017, 10:01 PM Post #35 |
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Re: Rudolph, I think you misinterpreted Rudolph's role. He sees who visited people but not who they visited. So he'd just see that five people (both Maf, Santa, Tracker and Oogie Boogie) travelled then would try to narrow them down. You can also obviously set up a claim yourself, counterclaim Tracker etc. That said, the game was ridiculously Town-sided because Mafia have won every game convincingly (considering game #1 had a Mafia modkilled) so the setup is definitely town-favoured. |
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| Fighta | Jan 4 2017, 10:17 PM Post #36 |
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I think I understood the role fine. I was expecting Rudolph to use it to see all of the people with roles (the people you listed) then force them to claim to try and weed out the mafia (because you can't really claim VT if someone's pointing out that you did something at night, so there'll be people double claiming). Even if you ended up lynching the actual PR, you know the other person is mafia then, something like that |
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| kerbykong | Jan 4 2017, 11:17 PM Post #37 |
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I was Oogie Boogie, I kidnapped Lupin N1 and he was VT. We spoke and had a plan if I managed to find the mafia (I was gonna coast with town). |
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6:51 PM Jul 11