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The War in Iraq
Topic Started: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:44 pm (213 Views)
Xtreme
Member Avatar
The Creator
There is no reason at all that we are still there except to "complete the mission". Well, the mission in the beginning was to capture Hussein and take him to trial. Isn't that the end? What is the point in fighting guerilla forces? Don't you think we should have learned back in Vietnam that you can't win a war vs them? They will not give up. And if you capture their leader, they will still find some kind of support to do whatever they want. Nuke is the answer but, if we do that, the world is over. We should have never even went in to begin with and just beafed up security. Speaking of security, all this money we put into this war of nothing, could have been speak on much better homeland security. So what, we have a few extra rules at airports and what not. Any type of boat could come up on our shores and take a city or two before getting owned by our army. But still, one or two citys is too much. They shouldn't even make it to our land. Instead, we go to their land and try and force them out which is almost impossible. And the claim that our immediate withdrawal would cause chaos is not proven. It did not happen in Vietnam either. Vietnam and the war in iraq are almost identical. You think we would have learned our lesson the first time.
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Etra
Level 22
Short term: It's dumb as fuck to have invaded Iraq. Losing money, soldiers, global popularity, etc.

Long term: Iraq would be yet another country the U.S. has control over. It's like a gradual but definite form of global domination.
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Halcy0n
Level 8
I agreed with Bush in the beginning.

Now.....
<_<



Kinda following along with Etra, the little people only see the little picture.
The big-wigs in charge of the county see the big picture.
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Am25
Level 0
wasnt their main reason for going to war is finding weapons of mass destruction?
and they havent found shit so they shud have pulled out by now
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MisclickED
Level 2
They fucked it up by invading. Not smart, quite dumb. Now they can't pull out now, because then they'd really fuck Iraq over. They have to stay in order to correct their idiocy. However, I still say they should be held accountable. They should be recognized for the morons they are.
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Etra
Level 22
Am25
 
wasnt their main reason for going to war is finding weapons of mass destruction?
and they havent found shit so they shud have pulled out by now

MisclickED
 
They fucked it up by invading. Not smart, quite dumb. Now they can't pull out now, because then they'd really fuck Iraq over. They have to stay in order to correct their idiocy. However, I still say they should be held accountable. They should be recognized for the morons they are.

Take a look at some of the things that Bush has done in office and you will see that his public image of being a complete dumbass is a facade. Taking that and the intelligence network that the U.S. has into account, I doubt the U.S. actually thought Iraq had WMDs, they just needed a proximate cause to justify an invasion of Iraq. As I said before, Iraq is just another step for the U.S. in their goal of taking over the world.

Countries that the U.S. has influence in: Canada, Mexico, most if not all of South America, Australia, South Korea, South Vietnam, Israel, Britain, a few countries in Africa, Israel, China, India, and now Iraq.
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TarTeR
Sauce
Lmao, we should hate the war since we have a pretty good chance of being recruited when we're old enough.
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Halcy0n
Level 8
If I don'tget a scholorship, I'll be joining.

UnitedStatesMarineCorpsSir!

See? I'm even practicing.
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Am25
Level 0
seriously ima be fuckin pissed if there is a draft in 3-4 years
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IvIech
Member Avatar
Level 3
Guys...

Let me post 2 problems...

1. You guys are growing up in an age of incoherence, thus, lots of the things that are important to the cause of war are lost, because it is old news, and not entertaining.

2. The war in Iraq and the middle east is due to mistakes made in the past, during the past century, we have lived in a world divided into two. The NATO side and the Warsaw Pact side. This was clearly defined for over a century, and as I posted in another political bashing post, this was all that was known, constant struggle for a leader, and constant war/tension. Do you see the fact that now that Russia is no longer the world leader, the US has "won." Due to all of the things that happened in the past, we have the present. Trust me, Bush is doing us all a favor by placing our presence in the place that is the most hostile and unstable to the world. We really don't worry about korea because we have 2 bases on South Korea and Japan, stationed with at least 150,000 soldiers at any time. We had our stations in Kuwait, but obviously it wasn't enough to keep the middle east in peace.

So my question to you is... Do you know your history? Read about the cold war, there are thousands of refrences to Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran, all key to the cold war, and training, stationing, and supplying a constant war effort to these countries. All these people knew were war (as I have posted before) and anybody who has volunteered to be in war(MGS quote: Those who know war look for more.) want more. All of the information is there, and you can connect it to find out why we are doing this, or at least how much this can help us and the world.

Oh, and remember that at least 1/4 of America is full of retards.
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MisclickED
Level 2
Of course I know history. Yet you fail to realize that there wasn't a specific need to invade IRAQ. If you say we should place our soldiers in the area where there's a hotbed of turmoil, then what about Iran (which brainwashes it's children through religion to HATE the west) and North Korea (which again brainwashes people to HATE the west). Now compare this to Saddam, where ALOT of his people hated him. That's a good thing. We need to fear the leader's whose people are ready to lay down their lives at any cost, (Iran, North Korea).

There is no point in invading Iraq when other, more dangerous countries loom on the horizon. And you speak of "US influence" in the middle east? Er... not when that "influence" just gets more people to rally up AGAINST the US. Think about it this way. An average villager in Iraq, a few years ago, would think that some preaching Imam is crazy if they say the US is killing all their children. Why? Because it isn't a concrete idea, the US is just some country far away. Now the USA has quite happily made itself quite concrete, and many villagers can now see the US and blame them for any sort of troubles they have. This equals = insta recruiting grounds for terrorists.
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Tonic
The Mambo King
Here's a twisted view-point for a change:

The bush administration, instead of working to centralize and stabilize the Iraqi goverment and quell the dissidents, they are fueling it to keep secatrian violence going? Why, you say?

Well for one, to create permament military establishments in the Iraq, allowing for contractors to secure oil fields indefinately. What has been or will be more profitable for the government? A quick war, with a quick pullout by the military in Iraq, or a long, drawn out campaign that will last decades? As much as we hate to admit it, this is all about money at the moment. Money and international face.

Not long ago, two former British SAS agents were caught in a British controlled city of Iraq, gunning down Iraqi policemen, planting roadside bombs and launching mortar attacks, all while dressed in typical Muslim garb. Basically, trying to sow chaos and disorder. Why? Simple, because they were most likely planted there by British intelligence. I could get more detailed on the subject, but I'll save that for another time.

It is not in the best interests of the Western powers to terminate this war anytime soon. Let's just hope the democrats can take Congress in the Elections this year, and hopefully set us on the path for change. A democratically controlled Senate and a Republic president = Lame duck. And he might be the lamest duck of all.
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IvIech
Member Avatar
Level 3
Guys, facts vs. ideas.

I am not going to debate this unless you actually put down something to back it.

Military Industrial Complex

Read it

Then come back to me.
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Halcy0n
Level 8
Black Gold.
What is it? Oil.

Did you know just how much freakin oil is in North America?

Anyone?

We have a oil filed in Alaska that is about 1/2 the amount of oil in the Middle East.

We have a oil field in Alberta that holds as much oil as the middle east has.

And I'm not even going to mention the recent oil strike in the Gulf of Mexico (also not going to mention that is can supply oil for America for teh next 40 years).


The way I look at it, America has a brillient plan. Use up the worlds supply of oil. Then America becomes the supplier of oil, instead of the Arabs.

Or just hoard the oil, letting the world collapse, paving the way for a New World Order.
Or something like that.


Although I would like to point out that no matter what we say or do, it isn't going to change anything.
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Etra
Level 22
Halycy0n
 
The way I look at it, America has a brillient plan. Use up the worlds supply of oil. Then America becomes the supplier of oil, instead of the Arabs.

Did you come up with this on your own or did you hear me say it somewhere? I recall saying the same thing on some forum but I'm not sure if it was this one. Also, you didn't include the oil shale under the Four Corners. The potential oil there isn't in millions or billions of barrels of oil, but trillions.

MisclickED
 
Of course I know history. Yet you fail to realize that there wasn't a specific need to invade IRAQ. If you say we should place our soldiers in the area where there's a hotbed of turmoil, then what about Iran (which brainwashes it's children through religion to HATE the west) and North Korea (which again brainwashes people to HATE the west). Now compare this to Saddam, where ALOT of his people hated him. That's a good thing. We need to fear the leader's whose people are ready to lay down their lives at any cost, (Iran, North Korea).

The U.S. needed to have a strategic foothold in the Middle East, the "hotbed of turmoil." On a purely strategic standpoint, having a military base Israel isn't enough. But having a base in Iraq would be more than sufficient. Iraq borders almost every country in the Middle East. Iraq has plenty of desert to train American soldiers for those types of conditions. And the distance between Israel and Iraq isn't a large factor, which would allow the easy movement of troops and supplies. Iran doesn't border as many countries and North Korea isn't a priority since it and the U.S. are in a stalemate; neither can really do much. In all honesty, the Iranians and North Koreans can sacrifice their lives all they want, but if their leader doesn't use them in an effective matter, their lives were wasted. And for us, that would be a good thing.

MisclickED
 
There is no point in invading Iraq when other, more dangerous countries loom on the horizon. And you speak of "US influence" in the middle east? Er... not when that "influence" just gets more people to rally up AGAINST the US. Think about it this way. An average villager in Iraq, a few years ago, would think that some preaching Imam is crazy if they say the US is killing all their children. Why? Because it isn't a concrete idea, the US is just some country far away. Now the USA has quite happily made itself quite concrete, and many villagers can now see the US and blame them for any sort of troubles they have. This equals = insta recruiting grounds for terrorists.

Global politics aren't the same as school; a country may benefit from the support of other countries but it isn't a necessity to take action. It also seems you're too influenced by news propaganda. Any article you see or read is there for one primary reason: to increase sales/views. Would more sales or views be made by talking about how much the citizens of Iraq are in support of the U.S. or by showing images of Iraqis holding signs that say that they want to kill all the Americans? The radical Iraqis that want to destroy the U.S. and kill American soldiers are far outnumbered by those that agree with what the U.S. has done.

IvIech
 
Oh, and remember that at least 1/4 of America is full of retards.

That's an understatement, it has to be at least 50%.
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Halcy0n
Level 8
Etra
Oct 24 2006, 03:33 PM
Halycy0n
 
The way I look at it, America has a brillient plan. Use up the worlds supply of oil. Then America becomes the supplier of oil, instead of the Arabs.

Did you come up with this on your own or did you hear me say it somewhere? I recall saying the same thing on some forum but I'm not sure if it was this one. Also, you didn't include the oil shale under the Four Corners. The potential oil there isn't in millions or billions of barrels of oil, but trillions.


It's been kicking around my environment class for about 2 months now.
Alot of people probably followed the same train of thought.

Regardless, now is a perfect time to buy stock in Amerian oil companies :P
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Tonic
The Mambo King
Etra
Oct 24 2006, 07:33 PM
Did you come up with this on your own or did you hear me say it somewhere? I recall saying the same thing on some forum but I'm not sure if it was this one. Also, you didn't include the oil shale under the Four Corners. The potential oil there isn't in millions or billions of barrels of oil, but trillions.

Actually, that idea has been around for a while. It's an obvious conclusion when you consider the facts. Etra is right. The vast extent of U.S. oil shale resources, amounts to around 2 trillion barrels, and has been known about for many years. In the past, however, it has always been set aside for the relatively cheaper alternative petroleum. Now, as we run low and it becomes increasingly expensive, maybe we do need to look into our oil shale resources as a viable component of our energy demands.

However, as was pointed out, I'm sure the United States does seek to gain monopoly of the oil industry. Providing our own fuel resources would be more beneficial to the average man, but not to the oil barons of the goverment. We will continue to ignore our potential and continue to depend on foreing aid, mostly from Canada. Our proven oil reserve rank 11th in the world, right behind Nigeria.

I'm not sure which oil field you are talking about, Halcy0n, which holds more oil than the whole middle east. If you would provide a link to this information, because I have no heard of such a vast oil field in Canada. Because as far as I know, the Middle East has the largest reserves of oil in the world.
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Halcy0n
Level 8
I heard it, oh, maybe 4 months ago on the radio.

Here's a quick link I found: http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/mar...13/msg00227.htm

"Officials say the well produced 10 million cubic feet of natural gas and
3,000 barrels of light crude oil daily during the test. The oil
production is about 100 times greater than the average well in Alberta."

It doesn't say for how long, so I dont' know how big it is.

Here's anotehr link: http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P150938.asp

"Canadian Natural Resources (CNQ, news, msgs). I like the company's willingness to distinguish between barrels in place -- 16 billion -- on the 115,000 acres of oil sands it leases in Alberta, and recoverable barrels -- 6 billion -- with current technology. The company's big bet on oil sands, the Horizon Phase 1 project, is on time and on budget for producing its first oil in 2008. Production in Phase 1 will ramp up to 110,000 barrels a day. That would be a significant increase to the company's production of 560,000 barrels a day during the first quarter of 2006 from conventional oil and gas wells in Canada, the North Sea and off West Africa. The stock recently pulled back on disappointing first-quarter results as costs rose and natural-gas prices fell. Our StockScouter rates the shares a 5 out of a possible 10."


Looking at these links, it appears that the Alberta oil field isn't as big as the whole Middle East (heh), but it is big.
I think.
<_<
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hev
Member Avatar
Lift Member + Teddy lover
Bush VS Bush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDh3WZ-R5Hg
It's about how Bush has changed his views on issues in the east before his presidency and now during his presidency.
(I believe this was made in 2005, but I'm not quite sure. Its from the Daily Show though)
It was made for laughs, but it does show some interesting quotes.
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ThunderBird
Unregistered

Ha...there is no such thing as wars...its more like a front really ;).

Im not going to say much but heres the truth...and some of you will choose not to believe it because your heads are filled with propaganda lies.

Did you know every nation the USA invaded are now filled with US corparations?
You tell me "they're only their for the oil"...but really oil is TINY compared to how much money the US corperations make everytime they set up shop at a new Nation. Look back at history all the way to the spaniards...the reason for invading wasnt to "Teach them about Christ". Cause if it was they would've handed out bibles...not ship gold back to Spain. Thats what war is...a business. Japan invaded Manchura china not because they wanted to press their believes...but for their natural resoruces. Like i said blood for money, thats all it is. You dont believe me then next time you stop at Iraq...look around. You'll see a whole bunch of american coperations in action. Subways, seven 11s, Mcdonalds. After all...why did you think the US REALLY pulled their troops out of Vietnam? Cause of protests? Cause of Dissease and defeats? No, its because after studying vietnam they could already tell they wouldnt profit from such a poor country. You see...as i remeber in a God Father movie...its not personal...just business ;)
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