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| Physics | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:42 am (177 Views) | |
| DeMaGoG | Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:42 am Post #1 |
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Level 23
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Gravity does not effect time, I believe. It does effect light, and my first answer was shadows, but that's ruled out, obviously.... However, I'm not sure if black holes are disruptions in space or space-time so I could be wrong. Another way to look at it is the fact that gravity is a force of attraction between objects with mass. Since mass is equivilant to energy, E=mc², then the thing must have no energy to not be effected by gravity (or no mass but it is saying the same thing either way since if 1 of those variables in the equation is zero, the other must be as well). So this brings up another question, assuming my knowledge of the subject is accurate, absolute zero is the temperature at which all matter loses all of its energy; therefore, anything at absolute zero will not be effected by gravity, however this is impossible because if you have a 1 pound block of iron and put it at absolute zero, the iron would no longer have any mass, so it would no longer be matter and would cease to exist, which obviously breaks the rule that matter cannot be created nor destroyed. Wow! all of that is just speculation, so I'm gona have to print this part off and talk to some physics professors to see what I got right and wrong. I'll update this! On another note, I was reading Dante's Inferno a few months ago and I came across something interesting. He wrote "they yearn for that which they fear" in reference to those hell. Essentially this is referring to the fact that God gives every man the ability to choose heaven or hell just by accepting God or not, so in logical sense, those in hell must have chosen not to accept God and therefore wanted it. I just find that interesting haha. |
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| DeMaGoG | Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:22 am Post #2 |
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Level 23
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Had to double post.... Apparently absolute zero is a point of minimum energy, not a point without energy. See what happens when you don't know all the facts people? You make mistakes! :P |
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| Sarge | Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:42 pm Post #3 |
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Another question that I found interesting since you're on the topic of physics.. Vision is the reflection of Light. Therefor all we see is light, and if there is no light we see nothing. Imagine you are holding a mirror directly in front of you. Light bounces off the mirror, and comes back at you, allowing you to see your reflection. Now imagine you (and the mirror you're holding) are going at the speed of light. Since you are the same speed, light will never reach the mirror, making no light come back at you. Are you now invisible? |
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| XpLoiTeD | Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:01 pm Post #4 |
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† Rawr †
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No... ur fucking destroyed and ripped apart due to the speed you are travelling haha |
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| Sarge | Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:04 pm Post #5 |
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This is theoretical, not literal. |
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| Username | Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:11 pm Post #6 |
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Level 9
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Unless all parts of you were accelerating at exactly the same rate, then you wouldn't notice. It's only relative motion that you feel.
I think it would be the same effect as what would occur inside a black hole. Light would become red shifted as you get closer and closer to the speed of light and the wavelengths get larger. Eventually then yes, you wouldn't be able to see anything. I have a really good book about black holes/speed of light/gravity ect. that explained interesting things like that. Of course, in order to accelerate an object to the speed of light, the energy required to do so would be infinite, as the objects mass approaches infinity... |
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| Sarge | Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:11 pm Post #7 |
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All we see is light, and moving at the same speed as light makes things invisible is a contradiction within itself. This is what led Einstein to the theory that all things are relative to light, not time. He theorized that light is always moving relative to you, 300,000,000 meters per second faster than you are. As you approach that speed, since time is relative to light, time then slows down. |
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| XpLoiTeD | Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:12 pm Post #8 |
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† Rawr †
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Okayy Username :] Lets see you get something manmade travelling as fast as light. Chances are it would rip to pieces... haha or melt due to extreme heat or something of the sort ha. Just curious what is the speed of light im kind of rusty. |
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| Sarge | Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:16 pm Post #9 |
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I think thats about 650,000,000 miles per hour. And what I'm saying is, the theory is that you can't reach the speed of light, because everything is relative to light. |
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| Username | Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:46 pm Post #10 |
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Level 9
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No, you're incorrect. The idea of 'everything being relative to ____' is what Einstien's theory disproved. At the time, everything was relative to 'ether' which was an invisible, undetectable substance that propagated all through space. Relativity states that the only detectable motion is accelerated motion, and that each observer has his own, valid, state of reference.
What you're referring to is called the time dilation effect. (I dug up some of my old physics notes :P) It doesn't occur because time is relative to light, but because speed is related to the frames of reference between observer and the observed. The speed of light isn't important because its how fast light moves, its importance is that it is a physical constant. If you look at a simplified version of the time dilation effect, the time recorded by the person observing the person moving at the speed of light reaches zero -> time stops. The reason you can't accelerate at the speed of light is because mass is also related to the velocity of an object (E=mc^2, where energy is related to the velocity). As an object approaches the speed of light, its change in mass is given by:
Ugly equation, when written like that. Basically, what happens is that the closer you get to the speed of light, the closer the denominator gets to zero. If you put the speed of light in for v, you actually get 1/0, a divide by zero error. The limit of 1/0 is infinity, -> if an object were to be moving at the speed of light, it would have an infinite mass. To move an infinite mass requires an infinite amount of energy, so you cannot reach the speed of light. TL;DR Mass is related to velocity, velocity increases, mass increases. Speed of light is a natural limit that, when reached, brings mass to infinity. |
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| Sarge | Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:53 pm Post #11 |
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Wouldn't that make the mass of light infinite? |
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| Username | Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:58 pm Post #12 |
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Level 9
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It would, if photons had mass! Light is one of those things that is really difficulty to describe. On one hand, you can say that mass is tiny particles bouncing off objects, getting absorbed ect. At the same time, its valid to describe light as an electromagnetic wave, and in some situations, thats the only reasonable way to do so. (Radio waves, gamma rays, microwaves). The truth is that no one knows much about light, except that it is massless, and when you consider light as a particle, you have to imagine photons as massless particles that carry energy. |
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| Sarge | Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:16 pm Post #13 |
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Contradicts e=Mc^2 If M was 0, E would be 0. Yes light is very strange. |
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| Username | Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:22 pm Post #14 |
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Level 9
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Hell ya it is! Quantum theory is trying to get it all figured out, and when it does, it'll probably trump Einstien and disprove the applications his theories have to gravity. One way quantum theory has tried to explain light is to say that energy is delivered in 'quanta', or discrete, indivisible packets. That way, you could say that the illusion of 'photons' is actually these little packages of energy, and the 'wave' of light is a stream of these packets. More importantly, we had exactly the same post count :) |
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| Geofari | Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:28 pm Post #15 |
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Level 13
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would the object's mass approach infinity? or 0? because light itself has no mass i've always believed that when a body travels at the speed of light then it also bends time has anybody here read or heard of quantum mechanics? and if so then do you believe it? |
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| Username | Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:01 am Post #16 |
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Level 9
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Read moar! I already mentioned quantum physics, and I gave an explanation of why light moves at the speed of light. Also, I touched on time dilation (bending of time). Quantum mechanics has been demonstrated in a few weird experiments. One aspect of quantum mechanics is that it puts an enormous weight on observation. For example, a photon (or any atomic particle) is technically everywhere. That is, an atomic particle is nothing more than a probability wave, giving the chance that it will be found at any location. So, a photon has a 50% chance to be here, a 75% chance to be there, and a 0.000001% chance to be at infinity. As soon as you try and 'see' where it is, this wave collapses, and the photon 'chooses' it's location. This idea was shown by shooting a single photon through some reflectors and ending in a sheet that records the photon strikes. The way it is set up, is there is a reflector that the single photon hits, and it has a 50/50 chance of going left or right, then bouncing and hitting the sheet. If you have no information about the path, the photons will make a wave interference pattern, typical of two beams of light interfering with (crossing) each other. Wait what!? It's a single photon. It must be interfering with itself! As soon as you put a detector that says 'the photon bounced left' or 'the photon bounced right', the interference pattern dissapears, and what you see are random photon strikes on the sheet, exactly what is expected. Explanation? The wave interference is caused by the probability wave of the photon interfering with itself, and as soon as you observe it, the wave collapses, causing the photon to 'choose' a location - the random hit. Quantum mechanics is badass. It basically says that we don't - and can't - know/predict anything about the way the universe works. |
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| Geofari | Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:13 am Post #17 |
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Level 13
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haha sorry about that i got lazy |
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| DeMaGoG | Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:57 am Post #18 |
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Level 23
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So, I might be misunderstanding you, but from what I understand, the reason for the different spots on the "sheet" is that the photon is actually in two places at the same time and the only explanation (that I have heard of) is that there are parallel universes. As for traveling at the speed of light, if light is relative to you and always travels 300,000,000 meters per second faster than you, you could technically travel at that speed and not be traveling at the speed of light. So we could travel light year distances seemingly as though we were traveling at the speed of light. I'm just going off of what I understand though. As for the whole mirror thing, this is how I see it. Let's say you start with no velocity. Then you are instantly traveling at the speed of light (impossible but we aren't being literal in this example). So the light traveling behind you at the moment you began to move would be traveling with you, so you could no longer see it. The light that began between you and the mirror would never reach the mirror, so you could not see yourself. However, you have to think of light coming from other places. So we are going from point A to point Z. Anything directly behind you will be "invisible." But lets say point B is behind point A at an angle. Now you are traveling and you begin to reach point X. Now light (logically) has been reaching this point from point B for (theoretically) always. So when you reach point X, these light waves hit your mirror and you see them (assuming your brain can interpret light while traveling at light speed). Since point B was behind point A and at an angle, it's distance is further, so you must be seeing light that reflected/emitted from point B before you left point A, so you are seeing the past. I think things directly in front of you would look normal... So basically, anything that is at a greater distance from the place where you are than the place where you began will be seen in the past. Theoretically, if we travelled faster than the speed of light, we could eventually see all the way back in time. Again, I'm speculating sooo be sure to criticize this! |
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| Username | Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:22 am Post #19 |
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Level 9
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Ahh, I wasn't very clear. Parallel universes is a much sexier explanation. The pattern is formed over time. So, a single photon is shot into the system per millisecond, and after an hour, a wave interference pattern appears. (As in, you still see a dot appear for each photon, but they are co-ordinated into an interference pattern)
You're right, in that every observer measures the same speed of light, regardless of their speed. But what that means is that if I were moving at nearly the speed of light, to an outside observer, everything that I do would happen very very slowly. Everything I see when I look outside would be happening quickly. This follows with the idea of time dilation. If you tried to hit the speed of light however, your mass would become infinite and you'd run out of energy. If you did manage to break the speed of light you would go backwards in time, due to time dilation. Time dilation makes a trip appear to take a shorter amount of time the faster you move. So, if someone moving at 2/3 the speed of light went on a trip that took them 15 years, it would seem as if 20 years had passed to other, slower observers, once they came to rest. If you graph out the function of time dilation with time on the y-axis, and the speed of light on the x-axis, it traces a half circle that hits zero time at the speed of light (implying that at the speed of light, a trip of 20 years to a relative non-moving observer would take no time for the object moving at the speed of light). If you were to continue this line.... it would go into the negative time underneath the x-axis, thus, travelling to the past. I don't know what physical property that demonstrates. Your idea with mirrors does make sense, I see why that would work. |
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| DeMaGoG | Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:45 am Post #20 |
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Level 23
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Since gravity is a force with no energy would it be possible to use gravity to travel at the speed of light? Or would it be your own mass that would have to be infinite? |
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