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| Death | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sun Mar 9, 2008 11:22 pm (1,104 Views) | |
| Helio | Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:17 am Post #21 |
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Level 21
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Acually that's what I had in mind Lol |
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| Relieve | Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:44 am Post #22 |
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SoniC
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It is hard to imagine that, to not have a mind or thought at all. I shiver everytime I try to imagine that -.- |
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| Helio | Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:53 pm Post #23 |
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Level 21
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That's the real hell: reality. |
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| Tonic | Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:08 am Post #24 |
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The Mambo King
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So humans have an afterlife. Why? Are humans special? What about the millions and millions of species that came before humans? Is there a huge farm heaven? And a huge aquarium heaven for fish? What about bacteria and other microscopic life? Is there a heaven for them too, where they can invade all the hosts organisms they want forever and ever Amen? Tapeworm heaven? What about brain tumor cells? That's life too! Cancer cell heaven? What about all the people with mentally dehabilitating diseases? Down syndrome heaven? Wouldn't that be fun? Can I stop now? Be realistic. I'd like there to be a magical wonderland after I die. Don't get me wrong. It just doesn't make sense when you think about it. |
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| Geofari | Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:07 pm Post #25 |
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Level 13
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you have to consider that we are the only mass intelligent species in our entire solar system. the earth is the only inhabitable planet in our system and we happen to be on it. we are special in that we have created what several other species have not: society and abstract thought. |
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| iLLioNaiRe | Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:21 pm Post #26 |
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Level 6
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Yeah, o.k., tell that to primates, dolphins, and wolves... But your abstract argument saves you! |
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| DeMaGoG | Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:21 pm Post #27 |
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Level 23
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So how do you explain the unexplainable? For instance, Jericho. Scientists determined that it was actually impossible for the walls to fall inward like the Bible describes, but then they unearthed the city and found the walls fell inward... If it were impossible then how did it happen? I'm sure there are other instances, but I'm much too tired to think of anything... Edit: Also, what about people who have died and then came back to life? They always describe an after life... I'm a little skeptical of stories like those though, so until I see one first hand I don't know what to think of this example. |
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| Geofari | Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:27 pm Post #28 |
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Level 13
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:) lets say international society and demagog - you can just get a doctor to stop your heart, does that not qualify as dead? |
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| DeMaGoG | Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:29 pm Post #29 |
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Level 23
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I don't know, I'm not a doctor, are you? |
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| iLLioNaiRe | Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:40 pm Post #30 |
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Level 6
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There was some article in Times or Newsweek dealing with a stopped heart... Something along the lines of being able to be revived within a certain time limit after your heart stops beating.. I forgot |
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| Druzil | Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:50 pm Post #31 |
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Level 7
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For some procedures I think they have to stop your heart, so you can technically be dead for periods of time and be revived. But if blood flow to your brain is stopped for too long you will suffer serious brain damage which can get the point of not being able to be revived. |
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| DeMaGoG | Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:56 pm Post #32 |
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Level 23
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Something I do know it this: Death is caused by either lack of oxygen or nutrition (I'm not sure about dehydration and toxins though, I don't know if they fall under the lack of oxygen part or not, some toxins that stop breathing would be but I'm no expert...). Lack or nutrition is the equivilant of starvation. So every other way you can die is through lack of oxygen. If your heart stops, it would stop delivering oxygen to the brain. The brain can live without oxygen for a few minutes. If you started the heart and breathing again before the brain died, then the person was never actually dead. The reasons cells die from lack of oxygen is lactic acid fermentation. Normally the cell has oxygen and makes ATP (energy molecule) with oxygen. When there is no oxygen, crucial steps can not take place and the glucose used to make ATP becomes very few ATP molecules (I believe 2 or 3 compared to something like 34-38 with oxygen) and lactic acid. The cell keeps doing this until there are no more glucose molecules. Lactic acid is poisonous to cells, and the build up of it in the cell kills it. If cells did not try to save themselves through anaerobic(sp?) respiration (without oxygen) then the lactic acid would not build up and our cells would merely enter a state of suspended animation until they were given oxygen and glucose again. So basically in trying to save itself, the cell kills itself. |
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| Helio | Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:30 pm Post #33 |
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Level 21
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You aren't technically dead until your brain has "died" which is 4 minutes time after your heart has given out. That's why people can perform CPR on drowned victims and whatnot. |
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| Tonic | Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:04 am Post #34 |
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The Mambo King
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And babies? Babies are still without cognitive thought. In other words, they can't formulate opinions, ideas, thoughts, emotions, personality; pretty much everything associated with being an intelligent species. And as we know, personality is influenced by your surroundings and upbringing. A baby has not yet developed his social skills, speech ability, and countless other things necessary for survival. If a baby dies, what happens to the baby? Does he go to heaven a thoughtless baby, to exist that way for all time? Or does heaven make you "grow up". If so, how? What kind of person would that baby be if he "grew up" in heaven? Certainly not similar to someone who grew up in, let's say, a ghetto in Queens. Or a ghetto in Nazi, Germany back in the war days. Do you understand what I'm getting at? All the things that make us who we are are the result of our past experiences. Without this experience, who would we be? Babies. Can you remember when you were a baby? Of course not. Now imagine this non-remembering, extended for an eternity. Get my point? |
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| iLLioNaiRe | Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:40 pm Post #35 |
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Level 6
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I think you're mostly referring to identity, but I see what you're getting at. I think you're saying experience determines our destination, right? Then again you're implying some sort of nihilism. |
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| DeMaGoG | Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:56 am Post #36 |
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Level 23
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There are several "crowns" (12 I think) you can gain when you enter heaven dependent upon stuff you did while you were alive, otherwise your life doesn't effect you in heaven. Earthly memories won't matter and such. Basically, heaven is so different than anything we are used to, for instance no time, that it is impossible for us to know much about it at all, other than what is in the Bible. Since it doesn't say anything about babies that I know of, your arguement is pointless. |
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| Tonic | Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:13 am Post #37 |
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The Mambo King
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My argument is pointless? Are you fucking stupid? So if it doesn't appear in the bible, it's "pointless" to address it? What in God's holy fucking name are you talking about? Mental retardation, AIDS, Airplane!, the Holocaust also don't appear in the Bible. Is it pointless to bring those up? The Jews who died in the Holocaust were not Christian. The Nazis who slaughtered them are. Who's going to heaven here? Is it also pointless to bring that up? It's not in the Bible or anything. I'm bringing up some different angles and ethics questions to your "heaven after death" nonsense. I'm saying that according to the Bible, your afterlife depends on the deeds of your life. For a baby, who has done nothing in it's life e.g. Commit to a religion, be baptized, worship a faith, how is this baby to be judged? The baby can't even think for itself, much less recognize the consequences of his non-actions. Do you think an infant will know he or she is going to hell, much less why? Is he to be tortured for all eternity? There's a lot of stuff your Bible doesn't say. And a lot of the things it does say are dubious at best. Jesus and Dinosaurs existing in the same time period? Do you believe that? Don't be so obtuse about opinions which don't fit into your little neat book. If it's not in the Bible, that doesn't mean an argument is pointless. |
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| Tonic | Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:53 am Post #38 |
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The Mambo King
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Posted Image |
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| DeMaGoG | Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:53 am Post #39 |
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Level 23
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Well I misunderstood your arguement. I thought you were saying who you are on earth effects who you are in heaven, and I'm not sure it works that way (it could though, I'm not claiming to be an expert haha). But now that I see what you are actually saying, I'll give you my oppinion. Also, there is no need to get mad, it's pointless :-p. So according to the Bible, your afterlife depends on accepting Christ and proclaiming God above all else. It has nothing to do with what you have done. If it were based off of what you had done, how would you know if you did enough good? When you were judged would God say, "Oh sorry, you needed to do one more good thing to get into Heaven?" God is supposed to be pretty merciful now so it is generally assumed those who aren't old enough to understand and accept God go to heaven, but we really can't know that until we are dead. I get what you are saying now, I think, and I've wondered too, but it all comes down to faith. Also, just because some artist drew Jesus riding dinosaurs doesn't mean anything.... The Bible says the earth was created in seven days, but there is no time in heaven, so how long is a day to God? |
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| Tonic | Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:25 am Post #40 |
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The Mambo King
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To clarify, I'm talking about going to heaven as a baby from a subjective point of view. If you died as a baby, would you go to heaven as a baby? How does that work is what I'm asking. I don't remember when I was a baby. I'm happy now, when I can analyze and interpret my surroundings, formulate and make decisions, and just plain know what and where I am. A baby doesn't know any of this. He can't grasp present time, can't make thoughts or words. It can't speak a language so it's thoughts are formless and last an instant. Heaven is for all eternity, right? Being a baby for all eternity? |
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3:06 PM Jul 11