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| The Pulse Theory; A new explanation of Snipers | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:27 pm (478 Views) | |
| Sarge | Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:27 pm Post #1 |
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Hacker Hunter
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Pulse Theory Original Idea by Solar Tested/Explained by Sarge Basic concept: When you make a lock, the range of your sniper continues to change until you get to your target. Download the test Map Whats happening during these tests? Test #1: Both snipers lock at the same time, so their pulse continues to change at the same time. When they get to range, their range is exactly the same, making them double kill. Test #2: Top sniper is created, then there is a short wait before the bottom sniper is created. This was to show that the pulse does not start changing until you make a lock. Test #3: The Top Sniper locks, and 200 milliseconds later, the bottom Sniper locks. Since they locked at different times, the pulses are changing at different times, so when they reach each other, the pulses will be different, and somebody will get a kill. Test #4: The Top Sniper locks, and 50 milliseconds later, the bottom Sniper locks. This was to determine the time interval that a full 'pulse' takes. I'm guessing it's a little more than 100 milliseconds. For the information to follow, I am assuming that both Stances and Dlocking work. If you don't believe Dlocking works, try playing This Map. If you don't believe Stancing works, try playing some more snipers for a bit. Now, imagine a large circle around your ghost, about the size of a ghosts range. When you first make a lock, the circle starts at MAX range. Then, if your target was not in range, the ghost will start to walk towards it. As it walks, the range changes. Right away, the range goes from MAX range to MINIMUM range, and then slowly gets longer until it reaches max range again, where it then repeats this cycle. The circle moves outward, and gets bigger. Keep in mind, the change is very small. Most likely about 1 tile or less difference between max and min range. This explains why in test 4, the top sniper won every time. The wait was too short for them to finish a full cycle, so since the top sniper started first, his pulse would be closer to MAX range than the bottom sniper. Now, if the top sniper had reached max and then started back to minimum (like in some of the test 3's), the bottom sniper would have longer range until he reached MAX and reset again. How does this explain anything? Lets say your running away from somebody, and you are about the distance away from them as your max range. If you just lock them, your ghost will have to take the time to stop and turn around. Right away, you will be at minimum range before you shoot, causing you to die. If you D-Lock, your first click will have your sniper turn around, and then when you make the lock you will be ready to shoot already, and the pulse will be at max range. For stancing, its pretty obvious. You lock as they get in range, making it so you never move, and are using MAX range. Ofcourse, it will be extremely difficult to use any of this to your advantage, unless you are able to time your locks so you reach them at max range. With all that said, I now believe without doubt that Angles do not exist at all. Feel free to ask questions, make new ideas, call me a complete retard.. Whatever pleases you. |
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| Relieve | Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:48 pm Post #2 |
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SoniC
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DLock doesn't depend on your range. It depends on the DELAY of your sniper turning around. If you are running away from an NL, and you DLocK. That just DELAYS the time of the turning around. It's pretty obvious, Move + Lock will obviously make you turn around faster. DLocks do NOT change your range at all. Every single DLock has enough range to shoot, it's just the matter of turning around fast enough. |
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| Sarge | Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:16 pm Post #3 |
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Hacker Hunter
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Correct. The first click allows you to turn around faster. This makes it so there is no delay before your shot, meaning the 'pulse' will still be at MAX range since it has not changed yet. What you said is correct, and goes along with pulse theory.. |
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| BaSe | Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:34 pm Post #4 |
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Level 27
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good concept and nice work.. but its not breakthrough stuff... most snipers know a dlock will beat a nl if done correctly almost 90 percent of the time.. I guess that 10 percent is when the NL cycles through and is at max range? lol Angles are a way to get your sniper to max range if u look at it like that.. Moving your sniper around so u can lock at max range is an angle |
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| Sarge | Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:41 pm Post #5 |
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Hacker Hunter
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It's not really anything new for you to actually use, just explains why some of the things like Dlock and Stances work. I've tried probably hundreds of different angles, having the 2 comps lock at the same time. They Dk'd every single time, never did either win. Several other people have tried to make angles work. If they lock at the same exact time, they will DK no matter what the 'angle' is. That's why I believe that angles do not exist. |
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| DopeLockz | Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:45 pm Post #6 |
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Level 1
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Yea i don't believe in angles drifting a sniper into a range spot yea timing locks obviously i love stancing but angles i try and use over and over "same ones" fail dlocks work when done correct |
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| Princess | Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:17 am Post #7 |
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Banned
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WooD and I discovered this in 2004, but we didn't name it as anything. I knew (but not discovered) the "gun trick" in 2003. KLiT didn't discover it either, but his own findings were original, so he gets equal credit since I didn't leak it to a lot of people. His way of explaining it was also different. I've also invented two methods of never missing a glitch, known about 115 since 2004, and found a way to make your sniper instantly spawn on single player, but sadly doesn't work on Multi :-( I know, I still suck, lol. What you stated was pretty much common sense. After sniping for so long, it becomes painfully obvious that one direction or one degree didn't win 100% of the time, that angles were more of a fluke that could never really be 100% mastered, thanks to some random interval in the game. Granted, we didn't delve so deeply into it, we just knew there was a certain timing that would beat any lock, and the timing constantly changed, because two snipers locking at the same time, from different distanced at the exact same angle, would never win every time. It all seemed to be random. So props for figuring out the mechaniocs for it. However, Dj.TeC discovered a way to simply this into his own little gun trick a couple of years ago. It was really complicated, and I think he's pretty much the only one who could ever get it to work. I'll explain it later when I'm not eating and if anyone is interested. I don't think he'll mind since he no longer games and since it's such a bitch to figure it out. It requires so much attention and thinking, that if you were that alert in motivated during a game, I think you could do well enough with out it anyway. And many snipers figured this out after WooD and I, WooD and I may have not even been the first. I personally credit FaZ- with being the first person to throw away the traditional angle theory. But I'm definitely more on top of this game than most people, fucking SOLAR especially. I just never gave it some fancy-sounding, futuristic "theoretical" name. |
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| FaZ- | Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:41 am Post #8 |
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Level 39
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I've had a similar thought as this, but as a coder I don't see why it would possibly be done. It could certainly be emergent behavior, though. Many cool things are, and virtually everything that we do in Snipers is. My thought is that a traditional lure distance takes one "pulse" and follows through with it. I thought that by perhaps doubling the distance of a lure, you could achieve the same effect. That's insanely hard to test though, without computers, and I never really cared that much to try it. If you try a lure that's too close, you never kill them unless they didn't lock you. That doesn't fit with your theory though, because then even sometimes you'd get a kill on a too close lure, and you don't. For you to prove that this works to me, you need to discover how long a pulse is, and create snipers at increasing intervals from him, having him lock, walk towards them, and always kill. Whether he dies or not is irrelevant. I assume you're using computers to test this. If this is true, Starcraft runs at 24 FPS, so the pulse should be approximately (1000/24)*x milliseconds, where x is an integer from 1-24, assuming it doesn't calculate more than once per frame. My "angle theory" map with the two computer spawns also throws a wrench into this. The computers lock at exactly the same time (or at least as fast as possible, no two actions can ever be given at exactly the same time). However, there's no pattern to their deaths unless you set up drift spots... Quite frankly, I don't buy this. =p REVELATION EDIT: What this made me think though is that we all obviously know how fog of war re-centers on your sniper... What if the same is true with the ghost's range? That would create a lot of the behavior that you're seeing, because a ghost walking continuously in a certain direction would seem to have a "pulsing" range, which would reset to maximum when the Sniper makes an action or a certain amount of time has elapsed. This would explain why stances work, why walkstance works, and why a lure works, according to the "one pulse" version I gave above. Bingo...? |
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| Princess | Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:17 am Post #9 |
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Banned
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That's what I was thinking when reading his explanation, that it worked the same way as trail vision. |
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| GhosTy | Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:31 am Post #10 |
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When Plan B fails, go back to Plan A and surprise them
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o_O Interesting. I like FaZ's idea better :X but I guess that's kinda bad for me since I don't click often |
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| Sniper | Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:31 am Post #11 |
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Level 32
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Dont tell the ways to never miss a glitch -.- Its one thing in this game some people have a jump on even tho most ppl know. :\ |
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| Princess | Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:33 am Post #12 |
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Banned
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yeah, it's kind of leaked now, I guess. But that one's mine 100%. I meant I'd explain Dj.TeC's trick if anyone was interested. He seemed to be able to make it work, a way to kind of landmark the timing. But God it requires so much attention. |
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| Sniper | Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:35 am Post #13 |
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Level 32
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And James you know a way to angle perfect every time...so i still say angles are involved. As long as you dont fuck the "Curve" up ....the problem with it tho is you dont have enough time in a game all the time to do it... I still think snipers has something to do with angles. |
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| GhosTy | Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:46 am Post #14 |
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When Plan B fails, go back to Plan A and surprise them
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o_O I hit blinds and glitches by looking at how my circle looks. I press A and click xD that's why. |
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| Sarge | Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:14 am Post #15 |
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Hacker Hunter
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Like test #4 on the map provided?.. |
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| Pulls | Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:06 am Post #16 |
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Level 4
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.... ¯\(º_o)/¯ Don't spam like this, Thanks ~ Base |
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| ][-][uRRiCaNe | Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:11 am Post #17 |
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Owns Hackers
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The only reason people THINK angles do not work is because they think they have set the angle up correctly and when they go to shoot the whole angle axis has been totally shifted at the last second. It's really simple if you think about it. You have your sniper set up based on the position of your opponent. Then you end up locking too early which IMMEDIATELY changes your snipers pathing causing the angle axis to shift and then you get rocked. This leaves you puzzled making you think angles do not work. The fact is you do not know how to judge firing distances. Again, if you walk up the map you will notice your snipers gun is constantly shifting at the same spots etc. If you notice where the gun is at a particular path in the map, then it will be that way when you pull back to try and set your opponent up. Basically take note of your pathing as you are walking so that you can use that to your advantage. In fact, you could probably make your DLock's work 100% of the time if you click to the side of the opponent that will place your gun to the inside of him/her and then repeat the second lock once he is set up instantly. Stancing... if you want to say that works 100% of the time then you are sadly mistaken. I'm kind of skeptical of this theory, but I'm open to looking more closley into it. As for now click the link on the navigation bar {KLiTs Sniper Training} and read about the drifts. Then you will understand why you THINK angling does not work. |
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| Sarge | Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:48 pm Post #18 |
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Hacker Hunter
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I made a map using the same exact tile all around, to get rid of any possible drifts. I tested for any drifts before starting anything. I then Started making 2 ghosts attack eachother, and slowly moving one of the ghosts over 1 pixel at a time, all the way across 3 full squares. They dk'd... Every single time. Like I said, many people have tried to make example maps to show that angles work. The point is, if they lock at the same time, they will DK. Every time. Try it for yourself. I see people that think angles work.. Everytime they 'angle' and die.. They say 'wow that shoulda been my angle, thats bs'. Pulse explains every thing a LOT better, and more consistant. When you drift, your sniper usually turns away, making him have to face his opponent right before shooting. This slight delay while he turns allows the pulse to start at max, and as he turns it changes to minimum because of the delay, making the 'drifter' die. |
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| ][-][uRRiCaNe | Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:07 pm Post #19 |
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Owns Hackers
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So you are implying: That drifts only occur because of the terrain. They don't occur whenver you attack another sniper. The fact that two people lock at the same time has no bearing on whether it is a DK or not. DK's can happen if you lock an hour later, 2 minutes before, 30 seconds ago, or tomorrow eventhough your opponent just locks now. As for your comment on people setting up angles and claiming BS. That is because they failed to do it correctly? Lol. |
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| Sarge | Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:14 pm Post #20 |
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Hacker Hunter
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I'm implying that on the specific map that I made purely for test purposes, there were no drifts.
Did you even download/play the test map? (First link)
It seems that about 50% of the time, everybody fails to do it correctly. Once again, feel free to prove to me that angles work by making a demo map of 2 computers locking at same time (according to you this doesn't change anything) and having one person win. |
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