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Walks/Locks, more skills?
Topic Started: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:14 pm (334 Views)
Deleted User
Deleted User



I think the ONLY difference is human error, besides quicklock.

( Which is only in locks, more or less )

Because I can QL faster than most, but I still die to someone who's slower at times because of my missclicks.

If you know the game, if your not lazy and you don't mc.

You'll win everytime, if you don't just NL.
( In my eyes )

If I don't MC a dlock, I kill every time.. thats enough proof for me.

But to some they'll see if differently... so meh.

Discuss!
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Sniper
Member Avatar
Level 32
Locks is way more skill.

In walks u dont even have to lock. can just stand in a glitch and they shoot for you..
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Druzil
Level 7
Sniper
Nov 21 2008, 05:25 PM
Locks is way more skill.

In walks u dont even have to lock. can just stand in a glitch and they shoot for you..

I've always found this argument a little bit retarded.. Did people actually sit in a blind and not lock? I never did, I still locked because it's much faster.

Both require skill, people who bad talk walks without even thinking it through are morons. I prefer locks over walks, but walks isn't a newb way to play it, I guarantee most of the people considered "good" in locks would fucking suck in walks, because elements of the game would change.
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DeMaGoG
Level 23
I was EXTREMELY good at walks, but I've never been that great at locks... I miss it :-/ But basically I'm the opposite of Druzil's example :D
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LockeD
Member Avatar
Cry to me Newbs
Walk is hella dumb. I played once with total newbs in a game cuz i was training one of my friend and fucking newbs such as Seanievee_09_badboy or some other names would fucking own every of qls due of them walking with A and me walking with RC. My qL couldnt do shit.

Locks require more skills.

Btw Damein, My Dlocks sometimes Fails. I turn Raise but no shoot. This happens alot.
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FaZ-
Level 39
DaMeiN
Nov 21 2008, 05:14 PM
I think the ONLY difference is human error, besides quicklock.

( Which is only in locks, more or less )

Evidently you've never heard of pullback. The ability to counter newb locks and trail visioning with proper timing adds a huge offensive element to the game. You can advance without having to stop and trail vision or veer off at an angle because the threat of someone locking you doesn't mean you're hopeless if you're moving towards them. Pullback was the walkstance of that era, but it was less known and more instinctual. Few players recognized that you could "pullback" towards someone.

DaMeiN
Nov 21 2008, 05:14 PM
Because I can QL faster than most, but I still die to someone who's slower at times because of my missclicks.

If you know the game, if your not lazy and you don't mc.

You'll win everytime, if you don't just NL.
( In my eyes )

QL's are a huge aspect of the current game. I'd wager that over 1/2 of the kills in an average sniper game are simply QL's without any regard to proper distance, angling, fogging, or whatever you'd like to believe.

The game is far more luck in locks, from what I've seen. How often have we heard recently how "anybody can beat anybody." In walks this really wasn't the case, there were players that were about the same level that had games always about a flag or two apart, that will always happen because there is luck in the game, but there was clear separation between players, especially in playstyle.

Nowadays you play the exact same style as everyone else, and people sit more or less depending on what they think is fair, because sitting or "playing strategically" as people like to call it now, is the most efficient way to snipe currently. That's really an unfortunate development of the maps played. As I said, this is not the case in walks, because your NL against someone coming at you isn't a free kill against even an average player. Against an exceptional player, it's rarely ever a kill.

People who say their locks would get walked, this simply isn't the case unless you were pulled on. It happened very very rarely that a lock would be beaten by a simple a-walk, and then only because the angle (direction of your sniper towards the opponent) lined up, and the locker didn't get a good "pulse."

DaMeiN
Nov 21 2008, 05:14 PM
If I don't MC a dlock, I kill every time.. thats enough proof for me.

But to some they'll see if differently... so meh.

Discuss!

If you think d-locks are invulnerable, you aren't a very good student of the game. There is a range where an enemy can be too close to even d-lock, dooming you, and a range between a d-lock and lure distance where a good player will need to angle for the proper d-lock distance, giving an opponent time to counter.


Don't get me wrong, I was one of the most vocal supporters of locks when it came out. Without Speedball, I highly doubt that people would even be playing locks right now... no one could figure out a proper unally prevention. ForeShadow had released his Locks map a month or so earlier but it never really caught on even after he added my unally prevent triggers.

ForeShadow attempted to counter the obvious flaws that were seen in locks. His map had 8 randomized respawns and the later versions had Ocular Implants after he had seen how completely overpowered newb locks were.

However, as I said, ForeShadow's maps were not the ones that caught on. The maps that were popularized at first didn't have random respawns at all and didn't have Ocular Implants, and people even still to this day bitch about mid spamming without it having been fixed properly. Locks has devolved snipers, it was very capable of being a skillful game, but the way the game is played now it is in my mind nothing close to as skillful as the way it was played in walks.

The skillsets are different, and in my mind they are two separate games.


Locked
 
Walk is hella dumb. I played once with total newbs in a game cuz i was training one of my friend and fucking newbs such as Seanievee_09_badboy or some other names would fucking own every of qls due of them walking with A and me walking with RC. My qL couldnt do shit.

Locks require more skills.

Btw Damein, My Dlocks sometimes Fails. I turn Raise but no shoot. This happens alot.


I played walks without using a. My pinky on H, my middle finger on P, and my index finger on right shift. If I sit down at a snipers game even still I instinctively put my hand in this set up sometimes. I would use patrol only when approaching fog areas or pullbacking, I ql'ed often and did well doing so. You just need to be smart about how to play.
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GhosTy
Member Avatar
When Plan B fails, go back to Plan A and surprise them
Man I've seen so many of these discussions.

I like Walks. Why? because there's a luck factor that most people fear to tread. Everyone seems to think that the luck in walks only applies to everyone else in the game and then they bitch and whine..

For those of us who A-walk, I'm quite sure that our game stats and such wouldn't change a whole lot. I like walks partly because if I mc I'm not totally owned, but walks doesn't save me every time. Hell it rarely does save me. I just like the thought of not getting destroyed every time I mc really bad.

And so what if people sit in glitches and blinds with hold position. Go the fuck around... lol..
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Deleted User
Deleted User


I was good in Walks as well, not because of just being able to walk with a timed A-walk either.

Because I knew how to QL in it
( Just like you would in Vulture Control )

As for your d-lock thing..

Trust me, I know the range of a sniper.. you don't have to tell me.

That whole paragraph amounted to nothing.. I can determine any range 90% of the time and be right, all I have to do is not MC and I will win.

If you want, I could use SA and prove this fact <.<

As for which requires more skill.. I still think Locks does slightly.. because even if you can "pullback" you can still die from an A-Walk in my eyes.

Why is this? Because of the Pulse Hypothesis.
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TeaLaGe
Member Avatar
Level 50
FaZ-
Nov 21 2008, 03:15 PM
DaMeiN
Nov 21 2008, 05:14 PM
I think the ONLY difference is human error, besides quicklock.

( Which is only in locks, more or less )

Evidently you've never heard of pullback. The ability to counter newb locks and trail visioning with proper timing adds a huge offensive element to the game. You can advance without having to stop and trail vision or veer off at an angle because the threat of someone locking you doesn't mean you're hopeless if you're moving towards them. Pullback was the walkstance of that era, but it was less known and more instinctual. Few players recognized that you could "pullback" towards someone.

DaMeiN
Nov 21 2008, 05:14 PM
Because I can QL faster than most, but I still die to someone who's slower at times because of my missclicks.

If you know the game, if your not lazy and you don't mc.

You'll win everytime, if you don't just NL.
( In my eyes )

QL's are a huge aspect of the current game. I'd wager that over 1/2 of the kills in an average sniper game are simply QL's without any regard to proper distance, angling, fogging, or whatever you'd like to believe.

The game is far more luck in locks, from what I've seen. How often have we heard recently how "anybody can beat anybody." In walks this really wasn't the case, there were players that were about the same level that had games always about a flag or two apart, that will always happen because there is luck in the game, but there was clear separation between players, especially in playstyle.

Nowadays you play the exact same style as everyone else, and people sit more or less depending on what they think is fair, because sitting or "playing strategically" as people like to call it now, is the most efficient way to snipe currently. That's really an unfortunate development of the maps played. As I said, this is not the case in walks, because your NL against someone coming at you isn't a free kill against even an average player. Against an exceptional player, it's rarely ever a kill.

People who say their locks would get walked, this simply isn't the case unless you were pulled on. It happened very very rarely that a lock would be beaten by a simple a-walk, and then only because the angle (direction of your sniper towards the opponent) lined up, and the locker didn't get a good "pulse."

DaMeiN
Nov 21 2008, 05:14 PM
If I don't MC a dlock, I kill every time.. thats enough proof for me.

But to some they'll see if differently... so meh.

Discuss!

If you think d-locks are invulnerable, you aren't a very good student of the game. There is a range where an enemy can be too close to even d-lock, dooming you, and a range between a d-lock and lure distance where a good player will need to angle for the proper d-lock distance, giving an opponent time to counter.


Don't get me wrong, I was one of the most vocal supporters of locks when it came out. Without Speedball, I highly doubt that people would even be playing locks right now... no one could figure out a proper unally prevention. ForeShadow had released his Locks map a month or so earlier but it never really caught on even after he added my unally prevent triggers.

ForeShadow attempted to counter the obvious flaws that were seen in locks. His map had 8 randomized respawns and the later versions had Ocular Implants after he had seen how completely overpowered newb locks were.

However, as I said, ForeShadow's maps were not the ones that caught on. The maps that were popularized at first didn't have random respawns at all and didn't have Ocular Implants, and people even still to this day bitch about mid spamming without it having been fixed properly. Locks has devolved snipers, it was very capable of being a skillful game, but the way the game is played now it is in my mind nothing close to as skillful as the way it was played in walks.

The skillsets are different, and in my mind they are two separate games.


Locked
 
Walk is hella dumb. I played once with total newbs in a game cuz i was training one of my friend and fucking newbs such as Seanievee_09_badboy or some other names would fucking own every of qls due of them walking with A and me walking with RC. My qL couldnt do shit.

Locks require more skills.

Btw Damein, My Dlocks sometimes Fails. I turn Raise but no shoot. This happens alot.


I played walks without using a. My pinky on H, my middle finger on P, and my index finger on right shift. If I sit down at a snipers game even still I instinctively put my hand in this set up sometimes. I would use patrol only when approaching fog areas or pullbacking, I ql'ed often and did well doing so. You just need to be smart about how to play.

is this really.. necessary faz-?
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Calio
Level 3
I agree with Faz-. Walks was more fun because people played differently and didn't do this "strategic" bullshit which basically just equals sitting. Sitting is so fucking pathetic now it's totally acceptable by everyone. None of these new gens have any idea what the real definition of sit is. Back in the day staying in the same area for more then 10 seconds was a sit and I totally agree with that definition.

The kids that call walks ez mode, or newb mode, or less skill are the same kids that are new generation and know nothing about the game except how to sit and d-lock. Walks included everyskill snipers use today plus a few more (like the pullbacks that were mentioned).

I would be so happy to see walks come back or at least see the community willing to play on either map.
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Relieve
Member Avatar
SoniC
if u hate sitting then play an anti-sit map? -.-
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FaZ-
Level 39
Klit's "anti-sit" will never catch anyone with a brain for the sole fact that you can run towards your base and it doesn't consider that sitting as long as you wait outside of the clearly defined box.
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LaRoCkO
Level 22
Walks would = bigger community.
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DeMaGoG
Level 23
So if I hosted walks would anyone join?
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Lyzon
Level 5
Someone should create a mix between walks and locks. What i mean is like every 5 seconds the game re allys everyone and unallys them again. that would stop people walking non stop and they will use locks a lil more. that will also give locks snipers a chance to stop a walks nl.
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GhosTy
Member Avatar
When Plan B fails, go back to Plan A and surprise them
That's a pretty gay idea Lyzon. xD

Damein's map had a function for walks. Nobody ever chose it though. I've played ONE game where someone finally chose it.
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Lyzon
Level 5
Lol my idea aint THAT bad :S :D I guess its a matter of preference really.
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DeMaGoG
Level 23
GhosTy
Nov 22 2008, 11:16 AM
That's a pretty gay idea Lyzon. xD

Damein's map had a function for walks. Nobody ever chose it though. I've played ONE game where someone finally chose it.

Whenever I chose it everyone would leave.... pussies.
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noob
Level 21
Lyzon
Nov 22 2008, 11:42 AM
Lol my idea aint THAT bad :S :D I guess its a matter of preference really.

no, it IS that bad.
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Deleted User
Deleted User


Here, for anyone that wants it I put together a quick map with OI, and the choice at the beginning to use Walks or Locks.

( Dropship system )

I also re-did all the triggers, and made the map a lot smoother.

Including removing all the extra little bonuses and stuff; Such as the bonus at +12 and such.

Snipers Bald Choice
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