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| Homos in the Military; WTF Mr. Pres? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:37 am (548 Views) | |
| Loki | Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:37 am Post #1 |
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Level 17
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I don't know if any of you have heard about the policy President Elect Obama is trying to instate that will let gays serve openly in the military. It was bad enough with the don't ask don't tell policy. Now, they can openly say I am gay and serve along side us. I am very against this. No homos, in my beloved Marine Corps. Why Obama why? |
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| XpLoiTeD | Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:29 am Post #2 |
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† Rawr †
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Is this for real? If so, you need to wake the fuck up and realize what year it is. What's wrong with letting gays join and serve among side their fellow Americans in the first place? They are just like everybody else.
Edited by XpLoiTeD, Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:31 am.
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| Loki | Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:42 am Post #3 |
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Level 17
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No, I can't do that. Too many times, being in the military, do you have to shower in a group shower session. When homos are allowed to openly serve, this gives them all the reason they need to openly gawk at my junk. This is going to cause a lot of controversy in the military, I can't expect you to understand that. So many people in the military are very anti-gay. They are going to have rewrite so many articles of the UCMJ (uniform code of military justice) because of this. Mainly, harassment. Some fucking queer is going to use the "he's making me do this because I'm gay card" any chance he gets. Not to mention the fact that I can't jokingly call a Marine buddy a fag without looking at a possible NJP(non judicial punishment) or a friggin courts martial. I personally have nothing against the gay community, I don't agree with their lifestyle, but hey if they want to fuck a man, let them. Whatever makes them happy. I do not agree with the open display of homosexuality that is about to take place in the military of which I serve in. So many good people, good leaders, are going to end up having their hands full of litigation because some fuckin poopy poker didn't want to do what he was told, so he played the gay card. I however, can not stand by and just let that happen. Btw watch your tone with me, I didn't get dumb with you, I expect the same respect. So just because it's 2009 it's ok for what's morally wrong to take place? Our founding fathers of this country would shit their fuckin pants if they saw this shit. Those brave men who fought for what this nation is would of never let this happen. Believe that. I had no problem with the don't ask don't tell policy. The queers had to hide their homoness or they would be discharged. Now, I supposed you're going to say something like " Oh, well what if a queer saves your ass in combat?" That is a good point. As I have said, it's not about the fact their is queers in my beloved Corps, it's the openly serving thing I'm against. If they keep it in the closet I'l keep it cool. This gives them all the reason to bitch and whine about every little thing. We have enough controversy in the military as it is. This is a bad move. Believe that. Maybe you should 'wake the fuck up" and realize that this country is heading down a very dark path. Edited by Loki, Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:49 am.
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| Arbiter | Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:02 am Post #4 |
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Level 15
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I understand the problems that would cause :o is it possible though that the homosexuals realize the dislike you have for them and as you put it, keep sticking with the "don't ask don't tell policy" ? Just curious, I dunno much about the situtaion |
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| Loki | Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:04 am Post #5 |
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Level 17
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I'm sure a lot of them would. That's a good point Arbiter. I would be ok with that. Just the ones who are going to openly flaunt the gay shit because they can now and get away with it. That peturbs me. I see so much controversy with the "gay" card being played. It's going to be worse than the "race" card. :/ |
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| Tonic | Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:26 am Post #6 |
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The Mambo King
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Our founding fathers would "shit their pants" at alot of accomplishments we've achieved thus far. They would "shit their pants" at women voting and at negros being anything other than slaves to be traded. They would "shit their pants" at the cultural diversity and immigration policy of our country. They would "shit their pants" at our tax system and at our monetary system and at our foreign policy. And if they "shit their pants" at those things, they would shit their innards at seeing Barack Obama as our 44th president. So...what's your point? Progress we've made. Your disdain for homosexuals is disappointing, especially coming from a servicemen. Your contempt does a disservice to the many thousands and possibly more gay men who have fought and died defending the honor of this great country. Your arguments against them are petty and pathetic. "They look at my junk!" Please. I respect your service to this country, but it's exactly that kind of bigotry and primitive mindset that we've strived so long to correct. And this myth that all gays are flamboyant and openly sexual towards other men is false. If you know some of your fellow soldiers who are like this, then encompass your hatred towards them as individuals, for they speak for themselves and not the gay community. When a soldier spouts such hateful and ignorant tripe, I don't hold it against the every other soldier because I know, even personally, that there are many soldiers who are intelligent enough to be tolerant and respectful of gays and don't have such unfounded biases against them. And these soldiers are every bit as brave and honorable as you, Loki. I'm sure when worse comes to worse and the only thing standing between you and certain death is an openly gay soldier, you won't care if he has his dick up his ass with a rainbow flag dyed into his permed pubic hair. |
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| Loki | Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:38 am Post #7 |
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Level 17
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I commend on you how well written this is. However, if you would of read my entire post, friend, you would see that I said I have nothing against gays as a whole. My arguement with this matter goes to the fact of the controversy this is going to cause in the mitlitary. The structural integrity. Believe it or not, it's pretty fragile. Especially with service members, such as myself, who have been on multiple combat tours and are on the verge of breaking down and taking someone with them. Something like this can and will, have more of a negative affect on the military than a positve. Wait and see. Just remember, myself, and many others in the military called it. Now, we sit and watch the ballgame. As for the gay service members who fought and died under the flag, to that I pay the ultimate respect. However, they didn't come out openly about it. They knew the rules and regs of the military and they abided by it. I can't expect a civillian mind to be able to grasp the concept of the drama and controversy this IS going to cause. My arguments are petty and pathetic? How would you know? So, you're basically telling me this will have no negative affect on the armed services as it stands today? Once again, you said "hatred" once again I ask if you read my entire post. Even if I did hate them(and I don't), I FIGHT for that right. I have lost my brothers, my closest friends fighting for that right. One of which came through the morgue here recently. Got to see him in a way that I never wanted to. So, please, don't talk to me about a disservice to many thousands of rule abiding, patriots, who have died under the flag that I risk my life for. As for the statement about the only thing standing between me and certain death...well, I cut that off at the pass in my previous post. So for the upteenth time, let me say this : " I have nothing against the gay community." Edited by Loki, Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:39 am.
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| Tonic | Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:58 am Post #8 |
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The Mambo King
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You say that the allowance of gays to serve openly in the military is going to cause drama and controversy. You also say that you don't except a civilian (myself) to be able to grasp that concept. Well, I implore you to explain it to me and I'll do my civilian best to try and understand. If gays serving openly is going to cause untold strife in the military, then maybe there is something wrong with the pervasive sentiment in the military itself. Why is it so difficult in the year 2009 for soldiers in our military to be tolerant of openly gay fellow soldiers? Does that say something about the general level of maturity and learnedness of our servicemen? I truly hope not. So gay men before were not able to express their sexual preference in the military, and other soldiers were not allowed to ask either, right? So now that the soldiers will be able to say, "I'm gay", what is going to be the dramatic result of this that you seem to be predicting? Are gays going to run around in hot shorts and paint their rifles pink? I honestly don't think so. If you are the friend of one of these men and your deem him a good soldier, then your opinion should not change simply because you find out he's gay. He's still the same man as before. And besides, I'm sure that you guys in the military already have a pretty good idea about who's gay and who isn't. If you yourselves aren't gay, then why do you let it affect you? Let them be who they want to be, and judge them by the standards that you judge soldiers who aren't gay. I'm sure you know some guys who are assholes/idiots/morons/retardswho aren't gay. If a man is a good soldier, then who cares which way he swings? |
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| Loki | Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:31 pm Post #9 |
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Level 17
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You have to understand how the military works. The military works on orders being given, and orders being followed, down on through the chain of command. A lot of times you are told to do things that you don't like, things you don't want to. Cleaning the heads, toilets, police calling rocks, sweeping a sidewalk during the middle of a sand storm, etc. While most of these things are done with blind obedience ( comes with discipline), a lot of could be considered borderline hazing. Hazing is not allowed in the military and it will sure as shit get you demoted or even brig time. Now, let's say Pfc Fruit is told to go clean the toilets, and they are very, very nasty. If he Pfc Fruit doesn't want to clean the toilets, and none of us ever want to, then all he has to do is play the "he made me do it because I'm gay" card. Believe me when I say, everyone with brass on their collars will come running to make sure whoever gave him the order is punished. Secondly, I would say at least 90% of the military has a very negative outlook on homosexuals. If these people start coming out of the closet, other service members might take it into their own hands to turn these individuals straight by beating them, playing cruel pranks on them, etc. Yes, while that is pretty much immature, you can't sop it. Third, to have your non rates take you seriously and actually listen to you, you need their respect. If someone that is a homosexual is in charge of a unit and decides to come out of the closet, he's going to lose a lot of respect. The respect he needed to lead. This will lead to a whole shit storm of negativites that I don't really need to go into. It's pretty much self explanitory. You're pretty smart, I'm sure you can figure that out. Now you are probably wondering now how this is a big deal and what the hell does it mean. That's why I said you probably wouldn't be able to grasp what I'm saying unless you have actually served. Anything that will compromise the structural integrity of the military is bad news. We don't need to be fighting each other when we have enough other things to fight. You may not think this will happen, you probably think I am blowing this way out of proportion. Well, let me tell you, the general consensus from us deployed individuals is in agreeance with what I have said. Once again, I really wish I could get you to see where I'm coming from. However, without military influence, there is just no possible way for you to understand. I appreciate you being objective though. I like a good debate. Sorry, If I come across as rude, arrogant, or an asshole. I'm normally not, but I've been away from home entirely too long and the desert is starting to get to me. So don't take it personally. :) I need a beer, and some nice male on female ( the way it's meant to be ) sex :D BTW, not that this has anything to do with it, but homosexuality is morally wrong and is definitely a sin. I hate to see how America is just starting to accept it now days. It's sad really. Edited by Loki, Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:39 pm.
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| FaZ- | Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:58 pm Post #10 |
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Level 39
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The fact is that we don't know whether sexual orientation is determined prenatally or during life. If you want to talk about "morally wrong," how about discriminating against someone for something that they can't change? This would not even be an issue if America was not such a sex-driven culture. Men and women, nevermind gays, would be able to shower openly without issue, but our society drills into males that they need to get laid every second after they turn 12 or they aren't "manly," and everyone around them backs it up by bragging about using girls and other stupid bullshit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gay_military.png The only developed and well-governed countries on that list with a policy similar to ours are Russia and Brazil. Everywhere else, this is a complete non-issue. |
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| Loki | Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:05 pm Post #11 |
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Level 17
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I am in no way about to believe people are born gay. That is just an excuse for why they do what they do. Homosexuality in my opinion is not a disease. Well, if I had to associate it with a disease I would say cancer. If I am given proof that people can actually be born gay, without the God given free will that every man has, then I will glady recant everything I have said and hold a press conference to applogize to the gay community. Those other countries on that list a very low homosexuality rate as well. America, and I speak for America only, was founded on Christian doctrine. If only they could see us now. The don't ask don't tell policy is great, I don't see why it needs to be changed. The don't ask don't tell concept does two things. 1. Keeps them from being a target of others after they come out of the closet. 2. Allows them to serve with honor in the military if they want too. Many times, those who get drunk and "come out" often get beaten or worse. When in Nam in 72, a guy in the unit got drunk and admitted he liked watching people shower and that he was in love with one certain guy, a Marine. Next day, he was in the hospital. Someone opened up and number 10 can of hurt on him and when he recovered, he was shipped out. You have to consider the people you are with. Just because someone has a different sexual preference from the rest of the squad, doesn't mean the others have to accept that behavior. Many Gays serve with honor and stay very low key so they don't become a statistic Where do you billet a gay service member? You can't have in the room with a straight male, that would be the same as having a male and a female in the same room. Bottom line is, if they keep it quiet and down low, I don't care who is gay and who isn't. Just as long as they do their job. Edited by Loki, Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:13 pm.
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| Uncivilized | Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:59 pm Post #12 |
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Level 3
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But then wouldn't females and minorities be able to use the "he made me do it because I'm ___" line as well? Are you against females in the military? It seems like you want to keep the don't ask don't tell policy for their own protection against getting beaten. Why not just remove it and then let them choose if they want to risk coming out and being beaten? And what do you mean by the policy allows them to serve with honor in the militray if they want to. If it's changed to where they can come out if they want to, can they no longer serve with honor? |
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| Loki | Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:11 pm Post #13 |
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Level 17
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When I said gay I mean the gay community, male or female, lesbian or gay. I am sure it would be the same case with them, just maybe not as much. It's interesting you should bring up the female thing. Because that is a daily issue in the military. I am not against females in the military. We have to watch our mouths daily because of female presence. You can't even use the F word around some females because they are itching to scream sexual harassment. Not to mention the fact that just recently here a female marine on my camp who pretty much fucked every swinging dick in the camp, got caught in the bed red handed with another marine. As soon as the MSGT who busted them walked in she screamed "rape". Tried to fry and innocent marine because she couldn't keep her legs closed. That goes on daily in the military. 99.99% of the time the females word is taken over the male. Believe it or not, I've seen it first hand. This is not why the post was made though. Minorities barely ever play the line game. What I meant by the "allows them to serve with honor in the military if they want to" is that before the don't ask don't tell police gays were prohibited from the military. When the policy came into affect it gave them a chance to join, follow the rules, and serve their country with honor. It isn't so much I am worried about them getting beaten, that has little do with it. It's the whole controversy that is currently going on and will get worse when and if this is allowed. If the structure of Americas military were to collapse, it's GFG. I don't care who you are, gay , lesbian, male, female, tranny, black, white, purple, green w/e, if you're down for getting your ass shot off with me, I'm cool with you. Just don't be ridiculous. Edited by Loki, Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:17 pm.
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| Stun | Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:07 pm Post #14 |
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Level 10
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Females in the military are already gay gG |
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| Uncivilized | Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:48 pm Post #15 |
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Level 3
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You say minorities rarely play the line game, but thats because they choose not to when they can. Isnt it a little unfair that gays cant pronounce being gay because some of them could play the line game? Women are allowed to, minorities are allowed to. Might as well not let them serve because they might play that game. It just seems like discriminating against a group for something they might do before they even have a chance to do it. But then... I can see your point ( least I think I do)where the structures of our military could collapse... which would be bad =/.... As for the woman screaming rape, dont women do that everywhere? Ones that aren't even in the military? And why stun o.o. Edited by Uncivilized, Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:51 pm.
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| Loki | Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:09 pm Post #16 |
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Level 17
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Haha true Unciv, it's just a tiring excuse, seen some good people burn because some woman cheated on her hubby and got caught, played the rape game. I think minorities and women don't play the card too much because they have been in the military for a while now and know how to get by without using it. |
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| Uncivilized | Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:30 pm Post #17 |
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Level 3
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o.o that might be it... |
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| Hanabito | Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:52 pm Post #18 |
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Level 26
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this and a few other things are probably some of the most ignorant things i've ever heard in my life. you do bring up some good points about them being beaten if they come out etc, but then you say you don't even care about that, so it's obvious that you're just prejudiced against gay people no matter how many times you say you aren't. you say it's not a disease, but then go out of your way to say if it was a disease, it would be cancer, LOL 2 of my best friends are gay and from birth one of them was very feminine. he was basically a bitch during his childhood and liked pretty colors and cried during pop warner football. he said he never liked any women as he was growing up. are you telling me he chose to be a little pansy and find men sexually attractive? |
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| Loki | Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:39 pm Post #19 |
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Level 17
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God given free will man, he coulda been a little more feminine than the other guys, that doesn't mean he had to be a girl. I'll have you know I am not prejudice against gays, I too have two gay friends. They respect me enough to keep the shit away from me, and I respect them enough to keep my mouth shut about them. Until it is proven that people are born gay, I will believe what I know. If God wanted us to be born gay, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a sin eh? If someone is born a little more feminine, it's prolly something to do with a chemical imbalance on the brain. He just didn't turn out quite right. Hell, I like the color pink, and I like long walks on the beach no lie, but I am not walking around hitting on other dudes. The only exception I could see to this rule is a hermaphrodite. Their sex is chosen at birth by their parents. A lot of times they get it wrong and make a girl out of someone who was a guy, or a guy out of someone who was a girl. That is the only legitimate scientific thing even remotely close to this. Would love to be convinced by some scientific fact :D I may sound like I'm prejudiced against gay people, but I assure I am not. Yes, I use some pretty harsh words but it's just military talk. I respect my friends enough to keep that shit down when I am with them. I won't lie, gay people are funny. But for the sake of a stable military, they should not be able to come out of the closet without a discharge. Once again I can't expect any of you to understand. Maybe that's my fault for opening this topic. If I have offended someone it wasn't my intent. Edited by Loki, Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:45 pm.
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| FaZ- | Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:54 pm Post #20 |
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Level 39
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Well, if there was ever a draft I was going to plead gay with Edge... There goes that excuse. |
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3:08 PM Jul 11