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Freedom; All of it's aspects
Topic Started: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:27 pm (316 Views)
Cam
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Level 24
Society? As human beings?
What is freedom for you?
Are we really free?
I'll add more questions depending on what we talk about.
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XpLoiTeD
† Rawr †
Nobodies free. If you were free, there would be no rules, with no rules.. well thats self explanatory.
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FaZ-
Level 39
Pure freedom is anarchism. Anarchism cannot function in a world with so many impure people.

We're not free, but we have restricted freedoms that are (supposedly) in the best interest of the majority of the people in this nation.
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XpLoiTeD
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lol we basically said the same thing :p
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Arbiter
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Freedom so much to the point as where common sense comes into play I think. I mean you're "FREE" to go down the street and kill some1, you'll have to pay for it though. Like faz said though, to be 100% free would be no rules, and a society with no rules is basically screwed over. We view freedom differently then say a middle-eastern or something running for their lives. They view freedom as a safe place, where they don't have to fear I'd say. We view freedom, or TRUE freedom as no worries at all, but even then, sometimes I think your mind would be a barrier, telling you not to do things, if nothing else would(morals and ethics and such)
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Cam
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"We are condemned to be free"? Sartre.
What do you think of this?
Edited by Cam, Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:38 pm.
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FaZ-
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Humans by nature are free, my guess is that that's the direction that he was going with it. Free will can't be denied.

"Freedom" has another meaning though, more about laws than choice. You can choose to break the laws, you can't choose to ignore the punishment for violations.
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Arbiter
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I think in some ways he's looking at, like faz said, free will cant be denied. And when he says "condemned" to freedom, well naturally i think of condemned as a negative word. So I look at it like, in some ways life would be a bit easier if freedom was not always an option and u didnt have free will about everything,
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Cam
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Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:26 pm
I think in some ways he's looking at, like faz said, free will cant be denied. And when he says "condemned" to freedom, well naturally i think of condemned as a negative word. So I look at it like, in some ways life would be a bit easier if freedom was not always an option and u didnt have free will about everything,
Sartre's philosophy is called existensialism. The main theory is that existence comes before essence. There is no human nature. (Which would be the essence.) This is because there is no god who can concieve a human nature. To make it simplier, when an artist wants to make a painting, he has the idea of the painting: what will it be, what will it look like, what is it's goal. For humans, there is no paintor that concieves the idea of his nature. Therefore, all humans are on the same situation, and there's nothing that tells you what's supposed to be good or bad. Therefore, you build yourself as an individual by your choices, which don't have a value on themselves, but have a value because you chose them. Hence, you are responsible for what you choose. You are responsible for yourself, and for others as well, because you give an example of what you think it's right, of what you think has a value. (If you choose socialism over capitalism, it has a value because you chose it, because you think that it's more fair than capitalism, for example.) Even if you choose not to choose anything, you chose not to choose, so you're responsible for it. This is why we are condamned to be free. I don't think it's a negative word at all, I just think it implies that freedom is a weight. You're conscious that you're responsible for all that you do, for yourself and for humanity.
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TeaLaGe
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Canadians are free. End of discussion.
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Aztec
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I don't believe in complete freedom. Even if we didn't have any laws or rules, we wouldn't be free. We would be amidst chaos, and chaos is a restriction. Can't have complete freedom with restrictions.

Oh and even if somehow everyone in this world was a good person, like they didn't take anything for granted, didn't murder or steal, etc., being a "good person" is a restriction. There will always be some sort of restriction. And nature has ways of limiting our freedom as well. It's just not possible.
Edited by Aztec, Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:17 pm.
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Ash
Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:14 pm
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Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:26 pm
I think in some ways he's looking at, like faz said, free will cant be denied. And when he says "condemned" to freedom, well naturally i think of condemned as a negative word. So I look at it like, in some ways life would be a bit easier if freedom was not always an option and u didnt have free will about everything,
Sartre's philosophy is called existensialism. The main theory is that existence comes before essence. There is no human nature. (Which would be the essence.) This is because there is no god who can concieve a human nature. To make it simplier, when an artist wants to make a painting, he has the idea of the painting: what will it be, what will it look like, what is it's goal. For humans, there is no paintor that concieves the idea of his nature. Therefore, all humans are on the same situation, and there's nothing that tells you what's supposed to be good or bad. Therefore, you build yourself as an individual by your choices, which don't have a value on themselves, but have a value because you chose them. Hence, you are responsible for what you choose. You are responsible for yourself, and for others as well, because you give an example of what you think it's right, of what you think has a value. (If you choose socialism over capitalism, it has a value because you chose it, because you think that it's more fair than capitalism, for example.) Even if you choose not to choose anything, you chose not to choose, so you're responsible for it. This is why we are condamned to be free. I don't think it's a negative word at all, I just think it implies that freedom is a weight. You're conscious that you're responsible for all that you do, for yourself and for humanity.
okay fair enough. Maybe calling it negative was a little harsh. I understand what your saying, and I agree it implies that freedom is a weight, and I'd definately say it is. Your "freedom" so to speak can be used to help others, for example wars and everything. Often people in free countries, like Canada/America in the world wars help others, and hell ya there's a weight with that. lol
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Cam
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CarNaL
Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:11 pm
Even if we didn't have any laws or rules, we wouldn't be free. We would be amidst chaos, and chaos is a restriction.
Can you explain how chaos is a restriction? Sounds interesting.
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Aztec
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Just the elements of chaos would be limiting people. You know what I mean? It's really hard to put into words...
Edited by Aztec, Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:22 pm.
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Arbiter
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like total chaos, people get caught up helping others. Chaos causes confusion. Confusion causes distraction. Distraction restricts you from being able to do stuff. That kinda what you mean?
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Aztec
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that's definitely an element
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Cam
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Maybe if it's that hard to put into words it's because it's not that clear in your mind! :P
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Arbiter
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lol, good point by ash :P
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Aztec
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I'm pretty sure everyone has at one time known what they are thinking, but couldn't figure out how to put into words.
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Arbiter
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If you don't know how to put it in words though, either you don't know the english language well enough, or you don't fully comprehend what you're trying to say I think.
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