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Questions for Theists; If you believe in God...
Topic Started: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:45 am (943 Views)
SOLAR
Level 9
1. Is there any way you could be convinced that god doesn't exist?

(If not, then your opinion doesn't matter, since it's not based on reality)
(If so, you don't have faith in your god)

2. Assuming that God does exist, why does God deserve the power he is given?

3. If God is all forgiving, or all loving, why is there a need for a hell? Why can't God forgive people after they've died?

4. How come there is no testable verifiable evidence that God exists?

5. How come every single religion says theirs is correct, and the others are wrong using the exact same reasons (such as that prophets said so, or you have to have 'faith', or you can discover God through 'prayer'?)

6. God could certainly do a lot more to show us that he exists. Why doesn't he? (He has in the past, according to the bible.) Why doesn't he make it as obvious that he exists, as the fact that the sky is blue? Every religion says god "wants" you to worship and believe in him, and he is all powerful according to the monotheistic faiths, so how come he hasn't made it obvious to reasonable people like the majority of the world who don't believe in your specific dogma?

7. If the afterlife is eternal, and the current human life is only but a speck of time, then how come the lord bases how you spend eternity on what happens in this insignificant speck of time where people are ignorant of the truth?

8. Why don't Christians follow the bible, yet say it's the perfect book? (Such as stoning to death people who work on Sundays, or beating your slaves without damaging their eyes or killing them, for example)
Edited by SOLAR, Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:48 am.
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noob
Level 21
SOLAR
Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:45 am
6. God could certainly do a lot more to show us that he exists. Why doesn't he? (He has in the past, according to the bible.) Why doesn't he make it as obvious that he exists, as the fact that the sky is blue? Every religion says god "wants" you to worship and believe in him, and he is all powerful according to the monotheistic faiths, so how come he hasn't made it obvious to reasonable people like the majority of the world who don't believe in your specific dogma?
If God would concede me His omnipotence for 24 hours, you would see how many changes I would make in the world. But if He gave me His wisdom too, I would leave things as they are.
J.M.L. Monsabre
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FaZ-
Level 39
That quote doesn't even make sense to me. Wisdom is under the blanket of omnipotence, I'm not sure what point he's getting at.
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Princess
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Question #2 isn't even relevant. Who said anyone "gave" God His powers?
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Trophy
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SOLAR
Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:45 am
7. If the afterlife is eternal, and the current human life is only but a speck of time, then how come the lord bases how you spend eternity on what happens in this insignificant speck of time where people are ignorant of the truth?
This is the best argument you have. There's absolutely no reason (though, if religious people listened to reason, there would be no religious people) why a tiny amount of time determines eternity.
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Princess
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He does raise some good points. But #2 is a dumb question, and there are a couple of questions like "Like, if God exists, then why does bad stuff happen?" Those questions, though effective, have biblical (albeit arbitrary) answers, and they aren't really an ace in the hole.
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ClansAreForGays
Level 4
FaZ-
Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:03 pm
That quote doesn't even make sense to me. Wisdom is under the blanket of omnipotence, I'm not sure what point he's getting at.
You have it backwards. Omnipotence is under the blanket of omniscience. You can have the omnipotence to make your will reality, and not have perfect knowledge.

And while we're talking about blankets, popular 'believing' philosophers mark omnibenevolence as God's prime trait over omni-potence/science/presence. Some even go as far as saying omnibenevolence is his ONLY trait, and the other perfections('omni's) stem from or are simply by-products of being omnibenevolent.

If I was on the believing end, I'd put my stake in omnipresence being the primary trait of god.
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FaZ-
Level 39
I read that as omniscience for some reason every time. The quote makes sense now, but he's essentially saying things are perfect as they are right now, which made me lol.
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SOLAR
Level 9
Princess
Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:27 am
He does raise some good points. But #2 is a dumb question, and there are a couple of questions like "Like, if God exists, then why does bad stuff happen?" Those questions, though effective, have biblical (albeit arbitrary) answers, and they aren't really an ace in the hole.
Well, the point is, religious people are told to be good, right? But why should people be good? It's not because God is "Good", it's because he's powerful. Meaning, there is nothing wrong with going against "God" even if he did exist.
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Princess
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I'm not going to agree or disagree with that. I suppose there's some truth to it, and you could argue that with any Christian who was willing to. But it still doesn't change the fact that no one said God was "given" his power, and it still doesn't change the fact that a couple of your "why do bad things happen"-esque questions are lacking in weight. And as far as I'm concerned, to even try to figure out where God acquired his power is sort an ethreal concept.
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SOLAR
Level 9
God's power is equally proportional to the amount of power people attribute to him, lol.
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FaZ-
Level 39
He's pretty fucking useless for most of us, then.
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HaZy
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Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:01 pm
There's absolutely no reason why a tiny amount of time determines eternity.
What we do during this life does matter simply because, at least according to orthodox Christianity, god is an eternal god. Therefore, all sins commited against him (and sin is by definition against god) are sins against an eternal being. And so therefore they have eternal consequences. Having an omnipotent, eternal god means answering to him with regard to his justice. Sin is eternally offensive to a perfect, eternal god and so therefore will be judged as such.

Regardless of my personal beliefs I would have to say that that makes perfect sense. Given Christian thought, your question can be answered easily.


Quote:
 
(though, if religious people listened to reason, there would be no religious people)

Now this is something that you are being called to task on. You would maintain that no reasonable people can also be religious people, as if to also maintain that because you are not religious you are therefore reasonable (or rather because you are reasonable you scorn religious people). But either way you need to defend this preposterous parenthetical. Besides being laughable it is a complete non sequitur to your post.
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SOLAR
Level 9
I do believe that in order to be a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, and many others, you actually do have to be somewhat unreasonable. I wouldn't say that they're unreasonable about everything, but you do have to be unreasonable if you will assume something to be true when there is clear evidence that it is not true, for instance much of the bible and quran contain untrue information and bad advice. If you can call yourself a christian, yet throw out most of the bible, and ignore it, then you are somewhat unreasonable.
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HaZy
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I would suppose that there could be grounds in certain contexts to call religious people unreasonable of sorts. But it is also ridiculous to call "religious people" "unreasonable" in general, as if they couldn't understand logical speech. Or as if they weren't able to present themselves well. That generalization is what I was fighting. I think that everyone at some point or another could be called unreasonable. Do I then say that "everyone is unreasonable"? Of course not. So extend the same courtesy to all the subsets of "everyone" that you can label.
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SOLAR
Level 9
HaZy
Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:52 am
I would suppose that there could be grounds in certain contexts to call religious people unreasonable of sorts. But it is also ridiculous to call "religious people" "unreasonable" in general, as if they couldn't understand logical speech. Or as if they weren't able to present themselves well. That generalization is what I was fighting. I think that everyone at some point or another could be called unreasonable. Do I then say that "everyone is unreasonable"? Of course not. So extend the same courtesy to all the subsets of "everyone" that you can label.
Although pretty much everyone is unreasonable, it's important that we notice one important distinction. Only through religion will an educated 21st century man believe in talking snakes, eternal torture, and certain arks. Religion justifies and promotes war, hatred, racism, genocide, misogyny, and poverty in a way that no other philosophy or concept can.
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Great
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Here is your answer solar:

Microcosm of the world:

Universal Truth

^ ^ ^
| | |
| | |
| | |
A B C


A = any religion
B = agnosticism or atheism
C = an ideal that hasn't yet been created

Each has a percent chance of being correct (33.3 percent). Scale this to the actual world; a near impossible chance of you (or anyone else) being correct.

This scenario only holds "true" if you understand the subjectivity of your own beliefs and submit you have the possibility of being incorrect.

Really, there is no point discussing this. Its unknowable.
Edited by Great, Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:32 pm.
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SOLAR
Level 9
Just because there are 3 possibilities doesn't mean that they're all equally plausible!

Either the earth is spherical, or the earth is flat. Just because a sentence can be arranged into a dichotomy doesn't mean each is equally likely to be true!
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Oragami
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Level 24
Need to invent a new math ;]
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TeaLaGe
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god isn't real, too many unanswered questions that really just annoys everyone because frantic will cry blasphemy and attempt to strike you down via zeus thunder.
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