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| DISCUSSION; Discussion about the league | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Tue Feb 4, 2014 12:46 am (5,156 Views) | |
| TeaLaGe | Tue Feb 4, 2014 12:46 am Post #1 |
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Level 50
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Anything related to the league can be discussed here. |
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| Skywalker | Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:40 am Post #201 |
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Level 18
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Any sniper will tell you that besides the first time this was addressed in league rules, it was a loose decision made on the spot and I'm betting over half of snipers would shoot someone just before flag is returned to get a re-spawn. I'm not even going to waste anymore type on this. If I got the win, I can't be mad that the ruling was a camp other than an unnecessary infraction for a member of my team. My main point here is that the rules were overlooked during creation with handling situations that revolve around the opposing team controlling a flag. I, a participant didn't catch this because I "signed on the dotted line" like everyone else. No big deal though, by technicality you "win your claim." I think we're done here. |
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| TeaLaGe | Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:45 am Post #202 |
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Level 50
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I was always under the impression that during a situation like that, getting shot while: 1. standing still 2. trying moving away 3. instakill would result in a camp however it's too damn silly if someone just rs and comes at you with a attempt to kill you that you're not allowed to kill them no matter what. If Rigo killed Smooth, nobody would of said anything but hilariously enough Rigo dying means he can claim even if he failed at his attempt to kill Smooth. A "what if" situation: What if Rigo DIDNT die and killed Smooth. What would you say about that? Nothing right? makes absolutely no sense at all. The only way this would work if both players pulled away instead of locking each other which neither of them did. Smooth getting punished because he got the kill instead of rigo is just plain ridiculous. An autoloss would further show how ridiculous these claims have gotten. Thanks god it didn't. |
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| SpeciaLisT | Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:47 am Post #203 |
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Level 46
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I would usually say "Nt on camp", but I wouldn't claim. |
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| Druzil | Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:44 am Post #204 |
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Level 7
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It's pretty commonplace that shooting a sniper when the flag isn't set is a camp. There are certain instances where one could argue that it was legal, but the claim you're discussing was not one of them. Tealage, please stop with these bullshit "what ifs" when you disagree with the decision rendered on a claim. Using this line of thinking is a fallacy and just takes away from the actual discussion regarding the play. When judging a claim, you need to judge only what happened, not what could have happened, or what may have happened if one detail had been changed. That's not how it works. You cannot give weight to a point of view that is hypothetical when applied to a factual one. |
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| Skywalker | Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:51 am Post #205 |
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Level 18
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So, what you are telling me is outside of these league rules in any regular game, you are both reflagging and going after your flag that your opponent has and you are just going to let him flag and not kill Rigo? Furthermore, looking at Rigo's video, you clearly see that he has adequate time to lock you, with his partner already coming at you. If this was a public game you are just going to let him flag just because your flag is almost returned? The notion is still silly to me. |
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| BaSe | Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:55 am Post #206 |
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Level 27
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Well we aren't going to allow a player to camp a rs.. just because their opponent has a flag.... If we do this will lead to people killing the rs multiple times.. You can still lure the rs and trail for the opponent.. just don't kill the rs
Edited by BaSe, Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:01 am.
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| TeaLaGe | Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:29 am Post #207 |
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Level 50
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This IS one of those certain instance where you need to look at both plays, not just 1 play where smooth shot Rigo. 1. Did rigo have time to react? Yes 2. Did rigo move toward smooth? Yes 3. Did rigo lock smooth? Yes Why is exactly are you explaining to me how how to judge? You did not even give a reason nor explain why you think it was a camp. You were so blinded by the "camp" you didn't bother look at both point of views. I made my argument base on seeing both side of the videos, concluding that because Rigo made an attempt to respawn someone and actually attempt to go through with it, smooth was justified in killing him whether or not it was a "camp" or not. In my other post, I also explained that if rigo did nothing and got shot it would automatically been a camp. Looking back at the judging process, you were the only one who didn't give a valid reason and opt to only say "camp". What kind of judging is that? The voting process itself was completely broken, if it only took that many judges to win a claim then we should claim more often. In this case, using a "What if" shows us how we behave toward a scenario. Take a look at how retarded the situation is for smooth: successfully RS someone >> Nice try on camp but not claiming you ( Even Specialist said this ) Dk while trying to rs someone >> claiming camp Die trying to rs someone >> claiming camp No matter what the outcome is, Smooth would die and/or get claimed. |
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| TeaLaGe | Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:31 am Post #208 |
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Level 50
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"just don't kill the rs". Do you know how vague that is? Sure everyone "knows" what that means. But if you insist on using those words then we have already broken that rule everytime. If someone moves towards you after they rsed and you killed them; you have effectively "camped" on the grounds that "you cannot kill the rs". |
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| Rigo | Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:21 pm Post #209 |
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Level 22
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you can make a play on me, just vis yourself of the rs's and pull and make a make a play? are you saying he only shot me cuz i was trying to rs him? he was going to shot either way he didnt magically lock me as he saw me coming. EZ play. VIS yourself of RS"s PULL let the rs'er gather himself WHILE flag isnt set then make play on me. plain and simple the only time it was ok to shot an rs'er was when it was WALKS and you were RFing. that's it when it moved to locks, they changed it to not shooting the rs'er when the flag is not set. been like that since locks was out. Edited by Rigo, Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:23 pm.
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| BaSe | Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:54 pm Post #210 |
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Level 27
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uhm yes because he camped? He did it to himself by putting himself in that situation. Edited by BaSe, Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:55 pm.
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| EmChamp | Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:36 pm Post #211 |
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Level 10
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I think the biggest issue we have is everyone has their own opinion about what every rule is, and how they're supposed to be followed. I hope for next time we can come up with some kind of survey that enables us to 1. effectively get an idea of everyone's opinions on the rules before the league starts so we don't have this many problems during the league. 2. get a consensus for what the rules will be so everyone will feel better about the rules and lastly, no one will be able to complain this badly during the league because there was a survey given out to choose each type of rule. It will never be perfect mainly because we're all peers and have our own opinions, but by doing some preemptive things like a survey for rules will help the host get a better understanding of the players own views on the rules before the league begins. I really appreciate Mav and Tealage working to make this league happen. It's been a great source of activity and promotion of this little ums game in a 16 year old game. We need to come together though and make all of these discrepancies concrete if we want to continue playing without everyone getting pissed off at each other for every series that's played. Whomever decides to host next league, whether it be Mav, Tealage, or someone else I do not mind brainstorming some kind of template with you/creating a survey in order to ensure that these problems that we're having now do not happen as much as they did in this tournament. Let's just try to remember we're here to play a game, not bitch at every single thing that goes wrong/people complaining for other people complaining. |
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| LockeD | Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:54 pm Post #212 |
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Cry to me Newbs
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Says the #1 claimer of the league. |
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| Aztec | Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:08 pm Post #213 |
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Level 24
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If Person A is going to flag and kill rs, and their team mate (Person B ) is about to return the flag, I think that this should only be legal if the Person A goes straight to the flag and flag is returned by Person B before Person A gets there, killing rs when needed. If they zig-zag or drift to delay getting to the flag and still kill rs before flag is returned, that should be a camp and therefor illegal. This was a half-baked thought. Needs refining. Edited by Aztec, Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:14 pm.
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| Druzil | Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:36 pm Post #214 |
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Level 7
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People will always have complaints about rulings and rules. I don't see us ever creating a concrete set of rules that people follow, simply because everyone has a different opinion. Not to mention, when it comes down to applying to them, most people can't be objective. The only thing that I can think of to lessen the griping is have the officials be elected if there is another league. |
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| Rigo | Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:52 pm Post #215 |
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Level 22
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people always quit because of a ruling that didn't go their way. people need to stop that. stop actin like children |
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| EmChamp | Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:07 pm Post #216 |
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Level 10
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Dru, that's a great idea as well. I think by giving the players the feeling that "they chose the rules," "they chose the officials," it will help them understand that these rulings were made BY them. I'm sure it's hard for the officials/mav and tealage to deal with all of this bantering, claims, and immaturity like Rigo said, so if we create a system that makes the players feel more at ease about the rulings, it will help the league run smoother. Don't get me wrong, I think this has been a really fun and interesting league to say the least, lol. And you're right, we're never going to have "perfect" rules, but we can definitely make it easier for everyone to deal with rules/the system required for a successful league. Even if we did like, "you have to do this survey in order to register for the tournament," it will help the officials during the league because it is a preventative measure that will also help ease some minds of players. |
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| SpeciaLisT | Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:10 pm Post #217 |
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Level 46
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dude are you stupid...? YOU CAN CONTROL WHERE YOUR SNIPER IS? be at a position where you can effectively lure and dlock, smooth was legit in range...IF that were me in that position and i mistimed the rs, I would literally dance <- and -> for a few seconds just to make him mc to make it no longer a camp, I've actually done this. And as for other times, I've made t hem NEED to lock me and lure them for a dlock and its all good...but never shot them the way smooth did which is most definitely a camp. |
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| Skywalker | Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:02 pm Post #218 |
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Level 18
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You know uow stupid this sounds? "I will dance the tskj for a few seconds as the flagger on the opposing team is also nearby." Yeah, good luck with that play Specialist. Let me know when you wake up from Wonderland. Against anyone formidable you would get shot every time. |
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| SpeciaLisT | Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:20 pm Post #219 |
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Level 46
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yo gambit left our league game in game 1 when the game still had about 20 minutes left, we were up by a lot...We won game 1 i guess but what about game 2? Isn't there a 10 minute rule or something and then they lose?
Edited by SpeciaLisT, Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:21 pm.
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| BaSe | Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:57 pm Post #220 |
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Level 27
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Left as in disconnect? had to go? your not making sense to me why would anybody leave 5-10 minutes into the game |
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