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DISCUSSION; Discussion about the league
Topic Started: Tue Feb 4, 2014 12:46 am (5,161 Views)
TeaLaGe
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Level 50
Anything related to the league can be discussed here.
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SpeciaLisT
Level 46
SpeciaLisT
Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:19 am
TeaLaGe
Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:14 am
SpeciaLisT
Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:53 am
Hey I've been wondering this for a while now, If lets say my opponents have the flag and they got cut off by me at their flag and they are pussying it until their partner rses, if i kill the rser is that a camp? Or is it because I'm trying to prevent flag? I assume its a camp, thats why I don't do it, But I did see TtS do it in Trav/Korean VS TtS/Bang video. Was wondering if this was allowed, cuz I know this is allowed at end of the game right? at least thats what damein told me.
How does your opponent have you cutoff at their flag if one of them is dead?.. Where is your teammate in all of this? If you repeatedly kill the rser without giving the rser a chance to move, then you're pretty much camping.

What Damein tells you is incorrect. This is not allowed in the league as it would fall under "camping rules".


Quote:
 
U can kill rs and keep on killing it if oponent team has your flag and you dont know where they are. Aka pussying until their pner rs. But any good player will time the rs and fuck u up. But it shouldnt be ruled as camp imo.


Just because someone doesn't appear doesn't give you the right to repeatedly kill the respawner until he appears. The whole purpose is to get in and get out. If an opponent isn't showing up somewhere then your teammate should escort you out. Either way you shouldn't be killing the respawner repeatedly because the flagger doesn't want to flag with you in the way.

What's stopping me and my teammate camping the respawner to win because the opponent doesn't want to flag?

My partner would have flag and lets say is mid heading to our base clear to flag, while I'm up there making the opponent go around and try to flag, but is cut off while opponent's partner is rsing. thats the scenario...and there is an example that I'll show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T-t7BLrEo4
@ end Kaiser gets camped, Is this allowed? curious
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SpeciaLisT
Level 46
TeaLaGe
Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:24 am
wrong vid?
No? This is a good example of what I'm talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T-t7BLrEo4
Edited by SpeciaLisT, Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:25 am.
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TeaLaGe
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oh that's ironic.. you're the one "pussying" lol.

Glitches = blue
TeaL = Kaiser
Red = Korean
Oj = KT

The first time red came up to "reflag" without oj flagging, I'm not sure if that would be a valid camp or not since you were in the vision. however if you weren't in the vision then perhaps it's a camp as the flag is not set and kaiser didn't get to move.

The second kill were okay as Korean had no choice but to kill kaiser since you kept "pussying" aka running away. The first time you ran into a blind/glitch at the top right so Korean pulled away from that since nobody is going to nl into that. On top of that Kaiser also moved and had a lock on Korean.

The third time red pulled away from the respawn range and you also "pussy" away again. This time Kaiser also had enough time to move away or lock both player. Unfortunate that he decided to go after both players instead of pulling.

After seeing that they got tired of you running away, they went to flag home.
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SpeciaLisT
Level 46
TeaLaGe
Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:34 am
oh that's ironic.. you're the one "pussying" lol.

Glitches = blue
TeaL = Kaiser
Red = Korean
Oj = KT

The first time red came up to "reflag" without oj flagging, I'm not sure if that would be a valid camp or not since you were in the vision. however if you weren't in the vision then perhaps it's a camp as the flag is not set and kaiser didn't get to move.

The second kill were okay as Korean had no choice but to kill kaiser since you kept "pussying" aka running away. The first time you ran into a blind/glitch at the top right so Korean pulled away from that since nobody is going to nl into that. On top of that Kaiser also moved and had a lock on Korean.

The third time red pulled away from the respawn range and you also "pussy" away again. This time Kaiser also had enough time to move away or lock both player. Unfortunate that he decided to go after both players instead of pulling.

After seeing that they got tired of you running away, they went to flag home.
Actually the 3rd kill was also a camp because for some reason in this vid it shows him moving, but in our game he didn't move at all, thats y in this video it glitched...and remember red already flagged he came back up to kill teal and went into our bv to get me and camped teal in the process. So your saying this is allowed?

PS Very weird how it showed him moving, must've been some sort of glitch from resolution hack, He was killed instantly at rs.

MavericK i'd like an answer from u if you dont mind, an answer for this league and an answer for outside of the league, whether if it was acceptable in both.
Edited by SpeciaLisT, Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:51 am.
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TeaLaGe
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SpeciaLisT
Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:40 am
Actually the 3rd kill was also a camp because for some reason in this vid it shows him moving, but in our game he didn't move at all, thats y in this video it glitched...and remember red already flagged he came back up to kill teal and went into our bv to get me and camped teal in the process. So your saying this is allowed?

PS Very weird how it showed him moving, must've been some sort of glitch from resolution hack, He was killed instantly at rs.
Well I'm just going by what I'm seeing in the recording. Perhaps you can post yours of the game? I mean u did win right?..

I did see teal running up so technically he did move.

Red came back up because he had no choice, it would of been automatic lost if he returned the flag. You're right that the first kill at rs looked like a camp but if you stayed out of the red vision then it would of been a clear camp. But seeing the video, it looked like red saw you coming up at him so he moved to top left. Killing kaiser looked like a necessity to prevent you from killing him from that angle.

This wasn't a league match. So whatever happen in these games are usually not judged by anyone however in this case,

I would say that it is ALLOWED only if you have vision of the opponent coming at you as like in red situation. Red does have the flag but he put himself in an disadvantage position. He got lucky that's all. You were in NO way cornered. Having multiple chances to kill Korean but you ran way too many times.

That resolution hack makes the vision look bigger then it is, so unless you guys have the game recorded, I can only go by what you provide.


Edited by TeaLaGe, Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:52 am.
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LockeD
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Cry to me Newbs
SpeciaLisT
Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:22 am
SpeciaLisT
Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:19 am
TeaLaGe
Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:14 am
SpeciaLisT
Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:53 am
Hey I've been wondering this for a while now, If lets say my opponents have the flag and they got cut off by me at their flag and they are pussying it until their partner rses, if i kill the rser is that a camp? Or is it because I'm trying to prevent flag? I assume its a camp, thats why I don't do it, But I did see TtS do it in Trav/Korean VS TtS/Bang video. Was wondering if this was allowed, cuz I know this is allowed at end of the game right? at least thats what damein told me.
How does your opponent have you cutoff at their flag if one of them is dead?.. Where is your teammate in all of this? If you repeatedly kill the rser without giving the rser a chance to move, then you're pretty much camping.

What Damein tells you is incorrect. This is not allowed in the league as it would fall under "camping rules".


Quote:
 
U can kill rs and keep on killing it if oponent team has your flag and you dont know where they are. Aka pussying until their pner rs. But any good player will time the rs and fuck u up. But it shouldnt be ruled as camp imo.


Just because someone doesn't appear doesn't give you the right to repeatedly kill the respawner until he appears. The whole purpose is to get in and get out. If an opponent isn't showing up somewhere then your teammate should escort you out. Either way you shouldn't be killing the respawner repeatedly because the flagger doesn't want to flag with you in the way.

What's stopping me and my teammate camping the respawner to win because the opponent doesn't want to flag?

My partner would have flag and lets say is mid heading to our base clear to flag, while I'm up there making the opponent go around and try to flag, but is cut off while opponent's partner is rsing. thats the scenario...and there is an example that I'll show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T-t7BLrEo4
@ end Kaiser gets camped, Is this allowed? curious
This should be allowed. 100%
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SpeciaLisT
Level 46
TeaLaGe
Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:51 am
SpeciaLisT
Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:40 am
Actually the 3rd kill was also a camp because for some reason in this vid it shows him moving, but in our game he didn't move at all, thats y in this video it glitched...and remember red already flagged he came back up to kill teal and went into our bv to get me and camped teal in the process. So your saying this is allowed?

PS Very weird how it showed him moving, must've been some sort of glitch from resolution hack, He was killed instantly at rs.
Well I'm just going by what I'm seeing in the recording. Perhaps you can post yours of the game? I mean u did win right?..

I did see teal running up so technically he did move.

Red came back up because he had no choice, it would of been automatic lost if he returned the flag. You're right that the first kill at rs looked like a camp but if you stayed out of the red vision then it would of been a clear camp. But seeing the video, it looked like red saw you coming up at him so he moved to top left. Killing kaiser looked like a necessity to prevent you from killing him from that angle.

This wasn't a league match. So whatever happen in these games are usually not judged by anyone however in this case,

I would say that it is ALLOWED only if you have vision of the opponent coming at you as like in red situation. Red does have the flag but he put himself in an disadvantage position. He got lucky that's all. You were in NO way cornered. Having multiple chances to kill Korean but you ran way too many times.

That resolution hack makes the vision look bigger then it is, so unless you guys have the game recorded, I can only go by what you provide.


I don't but you can see how all 3 snipers position change, and where the "Death" actually took place ( the rs area). What happened was KT made a fast QL and in his video it didn't register correctly assuming because of the resolution hack, but I assure you he didn't get to move on our screens. So the first 1 was a camp but the following kills are good... because I was luring?

I think this needs to be changed, you can't say its ok because he was near by and then say o its not ok because he doesnt have vis of him when he is obviously near by since thats his destination
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TeaLaGe
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SpeciaLisT
Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:55 am
I don't but you can see how all 3 snipers position change, and where the "Death" actually took place ( the rs area). What happened was KT made a fast QL and in his video it didn't register correctly assuming because of the resolution hack, but I assure you he didn't get to move on our screens. So the first 1 was a camp but the following kills are good... because I was luring?

I think this needs to be changed, you can't say its ok because he was near by and then say o its not ok because he doesnt have vis of him when he is obviously near by since thats his destination
So post your recording of it.. This is what you provided for me and this is what I'm looking at... It's that simple. Supply a replay? recording? anything beside this.

Okay, why would It need to be changed?

who's destination? yours? You had vision of korean killing kaiser outside of bv so you knew where korean was and what he was going to do, it was pretty obvious that he was going to try and block you from flagging because his partner cannot help him. I mean.. aren't you claiming to be a psychic?

I said that if korean killed your partner without having vision of where you were then it would be CLEAR camp. However I assume he SAW you judging from the recording vision thus he ran top left.
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SpeciaLisT
Level 46
I don't have a recording... Can't you just take my word for it or hypothetically assume what I say is true about that rs... And I'm saying it needs to be changed so it can be clean cut on whether it's a camp or not... Since it was end of game he's allowed to do that? Or can I do what he did at any point of the game?? Can we get more opinions? Just one more thing to hash out and try to agree on as a Community
Edited by SpeciaLisT, Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:40 am.
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LockeD
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Cry to me Newbs
Mav.. What does /time having to do with preventing hack?? Wtf
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777averick
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On Vacation
/time is not an antihack, it is meant to make sure that it is the correct video (based on the time and date) and to ensure that you upload your video within 48 hours of that time stamp.
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ClansAreForGays
Level 4
im back
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joints
Level 2
019: MVP, Explanation as to why it goes to Bang instead of TtS, Stats are virtually dead even flags bonuses and TtS has better K/D why does he not have MVP?
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LockeD
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Cry to me Newbs
http://s15.zetaboards.com/Sniper_League/topic/7606178/1/#new

I dont understand how is this not ruled a sit. We either have inconpetent judges or this is rigged. Mav you said it urself, we should NOT allow that.. Yet it is ruled with no consequences? How is BM and unfair play tolerated.. Hm
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Druzil
Level 7
How about some basis to backup your accusations TtS? Where is the delusion?

You're going to attack me based on my usage of the word sit for a fallback? Really? That's weak even for you. If a play is defined as a fallback it's a sit. I'll reiterate something I said earlier: every fallback is a sit, but not every sit is a fallback. If you want to make allegations that I'm unfit to officiate (even though you'll be the only person on this forum with that opinion) then at least have some governing evidence to support a such a claim.

For clarity's sake I'll humor you, since you take my verdict very personally. The ONLY reason you managed to skate by without another infraction point is because orange was seen in your partners vision for a second or two. That, apparently, was enough for other officials to give you the benefit of the doubt. I obviously disagree, but it's a majority system.

The part that I feel is going over your head is how I perceive the fallback rule to be defined. Immediate danger does not refer to a player making progress toward your flag, if that were the case it would be acceptable to backtrack at any point in the game.

Quote:
 
Just because he's not quite reached base vision does not make the danger any less immediate. He WAS going to flag, and I had damn certain vision to prove it.

Considering that you made it back to your base vision before the attacking player did, I would not categorize that as immediate. With that being said, you had a play at the enemy flag, both you and your partner had the means to 2v1 the respawn and retrieve the flag. You both chose not to. Rather than taking the open lane to the enemy's flag, you ran back because you had fringe vision of an enemy player, who hadn't even crossed mid-map yet.

When the person who wrote the exact rule you're being claimed under takes issue with the play, you should examine it rather than become defensive like a child. I'm going to say, flat out, the judges who did not render a sit verdict on this made a mistake, and based on the discussion in the officials' forum they were hung up by the wording of the fallback rule.

Once again, I'm welcoming a conversation in which you can bring up any reasoning to why my thought process is incorrect, rather than a juvenile "you're an idiot".
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Druzil
Level 7
Good job on not being juvenile. You managed to write an essay without providing any counterpoints. Re-read my previous post if you need a rebuttal, everything you've said was answered before you even thought it up. I look forward to your next episode of bipolarism.
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BaSe
Level 27
Quote:
 
Not a sit.

OJ was shown in running past white. therefore put the flag in immediate danger. Fallback is justified when flag is in "immediate" danger.
The important part to me was that oj was shown as running there.. and it wasn't an assumption.

Quote:
 

I agree its a fallback sit. I read somewhere that a fallback sit was justified if the flag was in "immediate danger". And I thought it was based on 30sec left and down by 1 flag


Quote:
 
That is exactly why "IMO" I thought it was justified. I felt the flag was in immediate danger because Kist ran past Jeff. leaving a clear path to the flag..

Quote:
 

If trapp waited 5 secs longer before moving up. the play is normal. With red having the flag.. and two people cutting off his path.


Or If Kist ran straight for the flag. he would of saw trapp in trail vis. like a normal play.

Hugo, those are my remarks. Judging these gray areas is clearly opinion based which is why there is so much discussion about it. Just like in any sport that requires judgement.
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LockeD
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Cry to me Newbs
TtS
Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:19 pm
First of all, it's not a sit. Not in the slightest. A sit is unjustifiably waiting around, and more specifically doing so in base vision. I did not wait - or sit - at all. I fell back.

As for whether or not it was a justified fallback - according to the rules, it was. There WAS immediate danger, regardless of what idiot says otherwise. Just because he's not quite reached base vision does not make the danger any less immediate. He WAS going to flag, and I had damn certain vision to prove it.

Sit
 
Just because there's a player progressing forward towards his flag does not warrant backtracking to his base vision, not to mention TtS' partner had the opportunity to engage orange and chose not to, further facilitating the sit. I think the key part of the fallback is "immediate danger", not perceived danger. It's not okay to run back to base vision pre-emptively because he assumes someone is going for your flag eventually.
This judge should lose their position. Clearly this person is lacking the capacity to judge when confusing this as a sit when it is actually a fallback, let alone the delusional explanation for why it is a sit. This sort of irresponsible and irrational behavior is exactly why we as a community can not get along. Epic fail.
Well i dont use "fallback" to justify a small sit lol. To me theres sit.. And no sit.. No such thing as fallback. Anyways my comment was mostly towards mav.. He states his opinion as this is "BM" and "we dont want to see it" but doesnt apply consequences which doesnt make any sense.. Contractions
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TeaLaGe
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contractions guys.
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TeaLaGe
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Level 50
look at this asshole Emchamp and his claims. I'd let all those fly.

We should make a rule that if you lose 0-2, you can't claim retarded things like this. Nobody wants to replay a set that they already won because of spilt milk. Especially when you're outclassed to the max.
Edited by TeaLaGe, Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:42 am.
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