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DISCUSSION; Discussion about the league
Topic Started: Tue Feb 4, 2014 12:46 am (5,158 Views)
TeaLaGe
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Anything related to the league can be discussed here.
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TeaLaGe
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EmChamp
Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:14 pm
I'll just let the judges decide, because arguing with you is like telling a child they have to go to sleep in order to wake up for school in time.
or maybe you just don't know how to play the game. Atleast we know that you don't know shit about the game enough to make a valid opinion.

If this was a camp every other play where rigo respawned and got shot inside his bv must be a camp right?

take some notes.
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EmChamp
Level 10
Omg. I know it's not a camp, in any other fucking game outside of this tournament. The rules are set though, and if the flag isn't, it's a camp. You're now just getting mad at me interpreting the rules just like Spec did. When you set these jurisdictions for a tournament, you can't just change your mind. The rules are supposed to be concrete enough so that these discrepancies don't happen. Stop complaining that the rule isn't clear enough for this to not be a camp.
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TeaLaGe
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EmChamp
Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:21 pm
Omg. I know it's not a camp, in any other fucking game outside of this tournament. The rules are set though, and if the flag isn't, it's a camp. You're now just getting mad at me interpreting the rules just like Spec did. When you set these jurisdictions for a tournament, you can't just change your mind. The rules are supposed to be concrete enough so that these discrepancies don't happen. Stop complaining that the rule isn't clear enough for this to not be a camp.
there can never be rules concrete enough to completely make sure that everything is a guarantee this or that. Where have i changed my mind on any of the rules? This is a free discussion, I'm not part of the judging process nor am i part of the rule making. I can only suggest and let maverick decide if it's good to keep or not.

You were attacking my opinion and me personally for being a "hypocrite" when i have no part in this game nor judging this. I'm merely defending my opinion just like smooth defending himself from attacks which rigo instigated.

Why don't you stop complaining that it's a camp when rigo had enough time to move back. Just because rigo tried to kill smooth doesn't mean smooth has to bend over and let it happen.

By saying "it's not a camp, in any other fucking game outside of this tournament." you have effectively reduced yourself into being rrelevant. Every game inside and outside the league has is nearly the exact same "rules". The only difference is one of them punishes you for it while the other doesn't.

Key facts:

1. Both flags were taken, thus no flags set
2. Nobody knew where red was
3. Smooth lured and pulled away
4. Rigo respawned with a missclick and a lock which propelled his sniper toward smooth
5. Smooth on reflex action cause his ghost to kill Rigo on grounds of self defense
6. Rigo dies
7. Claims sits because his sniper didn't kill smooth as expected to.

Edited by TeaLaGe, Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:38 pm.
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TeaLaGe
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Quote:
 

Xploited

This isnt a camp. White n Blue cross paths mid left n hit, almost exactly at mid. While Glarez is taking flag back, if he had walked right into reflagging it would of equaled out perfectly. The only reason hes bitching and the only reason he got shot was cause he spawned LEFT. He had time to RS back. Had he spawned Mid or RIGHT he would of been even better off. He also pulled cause maybe he thought he rs'd already RIGHT. Coming to find out he is barely spawning LEFT. He got shot n it was a perfect flag transition. Also, Red was up there a long time, so he either SAT or came back, if he wasnt up, Glarez took the appropriate 2-3 seconds to safely return flag, if he had gone straight into flagging, the flag would of been there upon RS. So this is just crying about losing.


Lastly. This game was a blowout. So hes trying to get a game overturned cause of a 15 point flag which happened 1 time, and is clearly debatable [WHICH HE DIDNT EVEN RECEIVE CAUSE HE DIED] when he lost by 70+
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Aztec
Level 24
Are individual stats being recorded? Or is that too much work? I looked around and couldn't find them.
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LockeD
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Cry to me Newbs
well didnt tealage had a bot that recorded stats from replays by itself?
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AsSaSsiN
Level 29
Aztec
Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:14 pm
Are individual stats being recorded? Or is that too much work? I looked around and couldn't find them.
Just GP,W,L,MVP.

Honestly it's too much to ask someone to figure out everyones stats. If for future leagues we want to see things like Kills deaths bonus flags, we'd have to result to the old way of doing things with the winners posting the stats at the end.
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SpeciaLisT
Level 46
TeaLaGe
Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:06 pm
It's comedy hour because you're so against the idea that smooth isn't allowed to kill rigo when rigo charged at him.

DUDE LOOK @ where he is, If he lured at the right timing then he would've been fine, but he didn't he was in range of killing rigo, Rigo mced, if RIGO DIDNT MC, it would've been an attempt camp on smooth because smooth would've been raped. But because he mced, Smooth GOT HIM. There is no such rule where it says "you move a Milimeter due to an mc from spawn results in a non-camped kill"... Now if smooth was far enough to lure him to dlock thats a completely different story, but in this part, smooth was so close to rs Rigo had to try to get the kill. Smooth could've timed that respawn pressure a lot better, legit 2 second differential between flag being there and not being there... Theres no way around this, its a camp, end of discussion tealage. This is why I hate speaking to u about shit cuz its like u purposely try to exploit rules AGAINST ME for some fucking reason.
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TeaLaGe
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Explain to me this, do you all agree with that?

If red respawns and come after me, and i kill him, is it "camp"?

Edited by TeaLaGe, Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:44 am.
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SpeciaLisT
Level 46
TeaLaGe
Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:42 am


Explain to me this, do you all agree with that?

If red respawns and come after me, and i kill him, is it "camp"?

You're a fucking idiot...enough said. The example that showed red moving compared to rigo moving are 2 different things, wasn't even close to what Rigo had. 2ndly, if you lure red and kill him thats fine, but U CANNOT Kill him at he RS position, you need to lure him or let him set himself up somehow, IF THERE IS NO FLAG WHY ARE U KILING HIS RS? EVen if theres no vision on orange, that doesn't matter, because if the flag was set u'd just kill red and run with flag you dumbass...god, i legit think ur stupid as shit sometimes..another rule ur trying to exploit with wording when you know exactly what is meant.
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TeaLaGe
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Can someone else answer? I'm afraid specialist doesn't know how to communicate.
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AsSaSsiN
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You're exaggerating far too much to make your point. Smooth was actually in range of shooting orange while he re-spawned. Here's the evidence: http://imgur.com/oILH3SF Orange (seeing white was in range) did the only thing he thought he could do, and that was try to re-spawn him. Rigo mis-clicked, and died not even an inch from where he re-spawned. The only play white gave orange was to try to re-spawn him, yet 1) the flag was not available for white to grab. 2) white had no knowledge of where red was. Even If orange had moved up instead of down, he would have got shot in the back by smooth because he was that close. Rigo was unable to make a play. This is why it is a camp.

Now in your example, the respawner is 1-2 feet away and has the ability to move left right up nl or do whatever he chooses. Blue lured for vision of red re-spawning, yet he wasn't on top of red to the point where red didn't have an option. Blue then lures red and blue shoots red. That's not a camp, and is not comparable to this situation.
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TeaLaGe
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Good answer.

Take a look: 23:56 in game timer, Exhibit A:



Rigo there miss clicked but also made a lock You argued that
Quote:
 
Rigo was unable to make a play.
but this is a play itself, do you not agree?

Quote:
 
Rigo miss clicked, and died not even an inch from where he re-spawned. The only play white gave orange was to try to re-spawn him, yet 1) the flag was not available for white to grab. 2) white had no knowledge of where red was.


From that video, he had more then 1 choices, he could pull up or stood there. which in this case I would probably argue that this is a camp but the problem is, he initiated the attempt to kill smooth. I mean, if you are initiating an attempt to kill someone it means you're making a play correct? I do agree that if he was killed instantly it would be a camp.

Even if it's an inch or not, Rigo recording show that he was able to make a play and was not killed instantly, take a look at Exhibit B:



^ - that is why I can't agree that it is a camp.

You are correct that smooth was in range to kill but the issue is who knew that Rigo was going to spawn in that particular side? Smooth reaction was justify as it was reflex move. I know FOR SURE anyone running or luring in that type of angle would definitely be twitchy about a random spawn where they are. If you grabbed a flag and ran left, while at the same time see someone mid respawn, wouldn't you instantly lock that person knowing that they are in range to kill you?

Likewise, Rigo locking Smooth was also a reflex move because he was ready to kill smooth judging by his boxing.

Once again, I can't agree that this is a camp because smooth is incapable of making any plays to prevent rigo partner of flagging because he had no vision to start with.

---------

As for my video, it was to show that no matter where red went, even if red was inches from his respawn "luring" that if blue kills him, it would be considered as a "camp" in the rulebook. For example, what if red pulled up just a bit and tried to "dlock" but still died? It would still be breaking the rule. That saying, we have broken that rule so many time trying to reflag/kill when the flag isn't set. I know some people would cry "Exploiting rules" as their only excuse because they can't think for themselves.


Edited by TeaLaGe, Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:38 am.
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AsSaSsiN
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You say Rigo was able to make a play by trying to re-spawn Smooth. I disagree. His hand was forced. When I say "make a play" I mean the time and ability to move in whatever direction you want without fear of being killed right away. When there is no flag to take you should be able to make the play you want, not the play you're forced to. If a player is walking towards you and in range of you when you respawn your only move is to try to lock. It would be stupid to move backwards because the other player is advancing towards you and now you turned your back on them when you were already in range from the get go. Like I said, even if he attempted to move backwards he was dead from the get go.

You say who knew rigo was going to re-spawn on that side. I ask then how is it Rigo's fault that he did? As the attacking player it is your responsibility to stay clear of all re-spawns if you are in danger of camping.

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SpeciaLisT
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AsSaSsiN
Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:41 am
You say Rigo was able to make a play by trying to re-spawn Smooth. I disagree. His hand was forced. When I say "make a play" I mean the time and ability to move in whatever direction you want without fear of being killed right away. When there is no flag to take you should be able to make the play you want, not the play you're forced to. If a player is walking towards you and in range of you when you respawn your only move is to try to lock. It would be stupid to move backwards because the other player is advancing towards you and now you turned your back on them when you were already in range from the get go. Like I said, even if he attempted to move backwards he was dead from the get go.

You say who knew rigo was going to re-spawn on that side. I ask then how is it Rigo's fault that he did? As the attacking player it is your responsibility to stay clear of all re-spawns if you are in danger of camping.

Good man, this is common knowledge
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TeaLaGe
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Rigo hand was not forced. As long as there was no flag there he didnt have to do anything until smooth backed away. The problem he went after smooth. If smooth shot him where he stood or shot him while he was moving back then yes its a camp. Your hand is not forced in that situation. If someone is within your range you have the choice to shoot back and pray you get it, pull back for a dlock or do nothing and it would be a camp.

I just explained to you... smooth reflex action caused him to die but rigo was still able to make a lock on him and move toward smooth.

You sre correct that the attacking player has to stay clear but what was smooth suppose to do? Let rigo p flag? Because smooth had no vision he tried to lure and gather as much vision as possible because he had no idea where red could be. It was by a stroke of luck that rigo respawned where smooth pulled back from.

Arguing that smooth shouldnt be near any respawn is just telling him to let rigo p flag unopposed.
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SpeciaLisT
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TeaLaGe
Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:54 am
Rigo hand was not forced. As long as there was no flag there he didnt have to do anything until smooth backed away. The problem he went after smooth. If smooth shot him where he stood or shot him while he was moving back then yes its a camp. Your hand is not forced in that situation. If someone is within your range you have the choice to shoot back and pray you get it, pull back for a dlock or do nothing and it would be a camp.

I just explained to you... smooth reflex action caused him to die but rigo was still able to make a lock on him and move toward smooth.

You sre correct that the attacking player has to stay clear but what was smooth suppose to do? Let rigo p flag? Because smooth had no vision he tried to lure and gather as much vision as possible because he had no idea where red could be. It was by a stroke of luck that rigo respawned where smooth pulled back from.

Arguing that smooth shouldnt be near any respawn is just telling him to let rigo p flag unopposed.
Dude your talking like this is lan lat or something, they both moved towards each other literally the same time...Only difference is Rigo was facing, smooth had to turn around..if smooth was facing and rigo didnt mc, it would've been a dk, but a camp STILL.
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TeaLaGe
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You dont have a clue what you are saying. Just read please
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SpeciaLisT
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TeaLaGe
Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:54 am
Rigo hand was not forced. As long as there was no flag there he didnt have to do anything until smooth backed away. The problem he went after smooth. If smooth shot him where he stood or shot him while he was moving back then yes its a camp. Your hand is not forced in that situation. If someone is within your range you have the choice to shoot back and pray you get it, pull back for a dlock or do nothing and it would be a camp.

I just explained to you... smooth reflex action caused him to die but rigo was still able to make a lock on him and move toward smooth.

You sre correct that the attacking player has to stay clear but what was smooth suppose to do? Let rigo p flag? Because smooth had no vision he tried to lure and gather as much vision as possible because he had no idea where red could be. It was by a stroke of luck that rigo respawned where smooth pulled back from.

Arguing that smooth shouldnt be near any respawn is just telling him to let rigo p flag unopposed.
You sre correct that the attacking player has to stay clear but what was smooth suppose to do? Let rigo p flag? Because smooth had no vision he tried to lure and gather as much vision as possible because he had no idea where red could be. It was by a stroke of luck that rigo respawned where smooth pulled back from.

Me and you had a chat about this very scenario, and you said if he has no prior vis on the flagger then he has 0 right to be at respawn camping, YOU SAID THIS YOURSELF, I'm too lazy to find out where you said it....But you told me if The flagger was basically luring the person in his bv, while his partner is about to rs. In this scenario atking the rser even if flag isn't back would be justified, is what you said ( in a regular game, not a league game). You were talking about how this would be the exception to when the flag isn't set and you have the means of stopping their flag, but if you have no prior vision...is where you cannot camp the rs
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AsSaSsiN
Level 29
You keep saying Smooth made a "reflex move". I offer you this scenario. If the map was completely void of drifts and obstacles and smooth kept running away in a straight line would rigo have killed him? The answer is yes. Why is the answer yes? Because smooth was too close for rigo to make a viable move. You keep getting hung up on the fact that rigo moved a centimeter, yet who among us would not have tried to re-spawn smooth if we were in rigo's position. Are you really telling me you would just not move and then claim camp? No. You would still try to kill him because it's logical. What's not logical is clicking backwards when you are guaranteed to die if you choose this solution or not clicking at all (which you are also guaranteed to die from) you take the only option that gives you a chance of surviving.

If you look at the replay, smooth consented to letting red flag once he stopped going mid and went left. Everyone knew red was to the right, yet smooth chose the path to go up mid, then back around to the left and up. Also by reading the information smooth provided he agrees that he camped, and said he was sorry, blaming blue for his roundabout way of returning the flag.

Just because you want to prevent the opponent from flagging does not give you the right to camp his partner because you feel red "might" be nearby. It may be "unlucky" that orange re-spawned left, but again that is not Rigo's fault. Do you think if Rigo re-spawned right his choice would have been to NL and hope for the best? No. Because on the right he had time and space and the ability to make a play.
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