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Ask a Christian Anything; We are here to clear up confussion
Topic Started: May 6 2015, 03:02 AM (3,104 Views)
KingJason001
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I have been going to seminary for a while, and Heyward is very knowledgeable as well. We want to answer any and all of your questions concerning the tenets and beliefs of Christianity: Who Christ is, why suffering exists, who God is, what is the nature of God, why Jesus had to die, is the Bible accurate, what does the Bible say, etc.

We want you to be comfortable with talking about Christianity, we will not try to argue our assert our beliefs upon you, we will just state them. Anything you want to ask, we will answer without judgement. If we don't hold up to our promises here, I am sorry.
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KingJason001
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Comrade Mario
Jul 5 2015, 04:44 AM
Instinct isn't free will. When I suddenly come out of nowhere and say "BOOOOOOOOOO."

You get scared. That's a instinctual response. You didn't choose to do that. It's a subconscious mechanism.



So I'm going to ask again because I didn't understand the previous answer..

Does God support slavery?

If so what verses in the bible say that God is against it?


Why is the bible true? Why must anyone follow the word of the bible?

And if a person who rejects god does good deeds and is a good person will he be able to enter heaven?
I'll answer these when I get home. Nice to see you again Mario! :)
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Heyward
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Quote:
 
Does God support slavery?

If so what verses in the bible say that God is against it?


Your second question does not make sense. If God supports slavery then why would verses in the bible say he is against it?

To answer your question: Yes, God does support slavery. The reason this topic interests so many is because of its controversy. The concept of being another person's property is not appealing to many. It strips one of their pride, removes their independence, and requires work of them. But humility and servitude are virtues that God fully supports. He shows us this by being a humble servant himself, setting an example for us.

Jason may have more to say on this matter.
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Comrade Mario
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Your second question does not make sense. If God supports slavery then why would verses in the bible say he is against it?

I worded the question wrong.

Now that you have confirmed that God supports slavery why do you believe in this evil and immoral god? It can be universally agreed among most people that slavery is wrong. You have this EVIL God saying slavery is ok. Why follow it?
Edited by Comrade Mario, Jul 13 2015, 02:44 AM.
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Heyward
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God's idea of evil is not man's idea of evil. The men that believe slavery is evil are simply wrong.
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KingJason001
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Comrade Mario
Jul 13 2015, 02:44 AM
Your second question does not make sense. If God supports slavery then why would verses in the bible say he is against it?

I worded the question wrong.

Now that you have confirmed that God supports slavery why do you believe in this evil and immoral god? It can be universally agreed among most people that slavery is wrong. You have this EVIL God saying slavery is ok. Why follow it?
I think Heyward was not clear on what he meant.

God does not support the slavery we traditionally see in America's history. In no way does the Bible condone America's violent acts upon the African tribes that were hauled off across the sea to be slave in the land of the free.

As for what the bible does speak of is BOND-SERVANT. This simply means that people can come work for you if they owe you a debt to get rid of that debt. There is no forceful apprehension of a persons will, that is in the culture of the Hebrews. We have to think contextually when we read the Bible--that is not to slap our presuppositions to that of the Biblical writers. We have to think historically in other words. We can't say that when Paul returns an escaped bondservant to Philemon, his master, that Paul has returned him to an abusive and manipulative master as we are accustomed to in America's history. This is a presupposition, and those are big no-noes in Biblical interpretation. In fact, Paul returns the slave in confidence that Philemon will wipe his debt clean because the bondservant has accepted Christ as the one true savior and God.

All additions to scripture from me to clarify will be made in [brackets.]
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Accordingly, though I am bold enough in Christ to command you to do what is required [that is, Paul can demand Philemon to release Onesimus from the debt], yet for love's sake I prefer to appeal to you [Paul would rather not demand him, but simply ask him to do so]—I, Paul, an old man and now a prisoner also for Christ Jesus— I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I became in my imprisonment. (Formerly he was useless to you, but now he is indeed useful to you and to me.) I am sending him back to you, sending my very heart. [Paul cares for Onesimus, the escaped bondservant] I would have been glad to keep him with me, in order that he might serve me on your behalf during my imprisonment for the gospel, [because Paul was on trial for preaching that Jesus had risen from the dead] but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own accord. [Paul didn't want to force Philemon to do what was right, but allow him to chose to do what was right] For this perhaps is why he was parted from you for a while, that you might have him back forever [as a brother in Christ--for when you accept Christ you become a son of God, and thus siblings to other believers in a sense], no longer as a bondservant but more than a bondservant, as a beloved brother—especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord. [Paul calls Philemon to rejoice in Onesimus' conversion and to let him be free of the debt he's owed.]

So if you consider me your partner, receive him as you would receive me. If he has wronged you at all, or owes you anything, charge that to my account [Paul says I'd rather be your bondservant that have Onesimus be, if Onesimus has wronged Philemon, Paul says that Philemon should punish him instead of Onesimus]. I, Paul, write this with my own hand: I will repay it—to say nothing of your owing me even your own self. Yes, brother, I want some benefit from you in the Lord. Refresh my heart in Christ.

Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I say. At the same time, prepare a guest room for me, for I am hoping that through your prayers I will be graciously given to you.


So you see, Paul (Who is speaking God's own accord) is pleading to Philemon to forget the debt that Onesimus owed him.


So basically, in the time of Jesus and Paul, being slave was not as gruesome as it was in the 18th and 19th centuries. It was literally a way to pay off a debt if you could not pay it for money. I'm sure that some people took advantage of this relationship in the time of Paul, but Paul never directly spoke to this type of situation. In another letter by Paul to the church at Corinth he tells bondservants, if at all possible gain your freedom:

[in context, Paul is speaking about people who were saved (or trusted in the Lord) in unlikely circumstances, like gentiles who were uncircumcised--he tells these people to remain uncircumcised, etc.]
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Were you a bondservant when called? Do not be concerned about it. [basically, do what your master says and don't worry because this life is only but for a short time--until you will be finally be freed from this servitude and be free in the love of Christ] (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.) [he says gain, which means earn it--work out the remainder of your debt, so you can be a good witness to your master]


All this stuff goes back to Jesus saying "love your enemies." What is the best way to be a witness for Christ? I'd argue extensively that it is through persecution. If someone is beating you to the point of near death and you turn around and tell them that you love them--this is enough to show them the love you've received from God. This is exactly what God has done for us. We beat, mocked, and crucified the Lord and he turned around and offered us a way to eternal happiness, and ultimately he offered us his love. What better way to represent Christ as a bondservant or slave but to obey your master and have love for him? There is none. But Paul says it quite clear, if there is a way that you can earn your freedom as to where you will cause repute to the name of Christ, take it. But if not, do not worry, for there is a better future for you.
Plenty of Christians have done this in the past, and it would be a blessing for me to do this one day. Stories of Christians being mauled by bears and lions in the Colosseum come to mind. Do you know how every single persecuted Christian responded? They responded with boldness in their trust of God and with love for those who persecuted them.


As for the second part, it is totally riddled with presuppositions. As for the "universally agreed," I'd like to speak on a brief tangent. It's also universally accepted that micro-organisms on Mars means that Mars has life, but a placenta, that has a heartbeat is considered nothing more than a pest and a jumble of flesh. You try to live by societies standards on what is right and wrong, and you'll find yourself switching your morals more than you change clothes. There is only one set of morals that remain constant. Today it's gay marriage is a-okay, while polygamy is considered wrong; but tomorrow society will come around and accept that three people who "love each other" is just as much a marriage as two people of the same sex who "love each other."

But tangent aside, it's cliche and a little bit less sensitive than I would usually say things--slavery is bad, paying a debt is good.
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Comrade Mario
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'God's idea of evil is not man's idea of evil. The men that believe slavery is evil are simply wrong.'

wrong 2 u. right 2 everyone else. fuck ur sky god hahah.

ok thnks for clarifying tht up kingjason

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Heyward
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Slavery is a very broad term, one that the examples of bond-servantry in the bible fall under.

Major differences between modern views of slavery and bond-servantry are as follows:

Modern view assumes indefinite ownership and harsh relationship between master and servant.

Biblical view dictates a release of servants after a 6 year period and encourages a healthy, respectful relationship.

I was under the impression that you were not ignorant of this (seeing as how I've personally explained it to you before on multiple occasions.)
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KingJason001
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Comrade Mario
Jul 14 2015, 11:55 AM
shut up u jew
We've in no way intended to offend you, so I would appreciate it if you would treat us as we have been so kind to treat you.
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Comrade Mario
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im fucking around ok dont mind me
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Heyward
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Your questions give us an opportunity to explain the answer to anyone else who is reading this thread.
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