|
Welcome to Survivor: LoL!
Schedule
|
|
Challenge 2 Discussion
|
|
Topic Started: Jun 21 2016, 07:14:53 PM (643 Views)
|
|
Nautilus
|
Jun 21 2016, 07:14:53 PM
Post #1
|
|
- Posts:
- 174
- Group:
- Pre-Jury
- Member
- #44
- Joined:
- Jun 18, 2016
|
I copied the challenge post here:
Challenge Post 
"Let's talk about me for a minute" - Draven
Congratulations! You've passed your first tutorial, now it's time for a second! This time we're going to be a bit more focused on champions, so stay sharp!
---
The mods have chosen three League of Legends Champions. You will be asking "Yes" or "No" questions to try to figure out who we chose. The tribe that does this using the fewest questions will win immunity.
You are allowed to use outside sources for this challenge. Please arrange a time which works for your tribe for one of the mods to run this challenge. Only 5 people can participate in this challenge from each tribe.
All of the questions must specifically be designated for 0, at least 1, exactly 1, at least 2, exactly 2, or all 3 of the champions. You are NOT allowed to ask compound questions. For example, you can ask "Is at least one champion female?" but you are not allowed to ask "Is at leash one champion a female that shoots a ranged weapon?"
Before beginning the game, each tribe must submit a number. That number will be their guess as to the total number of questions asked by all tribes. (If a contestant is not guessed, they score the maximum of 150 additional questions) In the event of a tie, the tribe that guessed closest without going over will win immunity.
This challenge will be performed in a topic in your Tribal forum. When you are ready to begin, please make an appropriate topic there. You have 24 hours.
Resources
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions
Sounds like it doesn't matter TOO much which five of us do the challenge as long as we have a solid strategy. people will more league knowledge and good at strategy would probably be most helpful.
Edited by Nautilus, Jun 21 2016, 07:32:30 PM.
|
|
|
| |
|
Replies:
|
|
Dr. Mundo
|
Jun 21 2016, 08:48:08 PM
Post #21
|
|
MUNDO VERY CLEAVER
- Posts:
- 181
- Group:
- Pre-Jury
- Member
- #39
- Joined:
- Jun 16, 2016
|
MUNDO MIGHT NOT BE SO GOOD AT THIS COMP
HAS LOTS OF LEAGUE KNOWLEDGE BUT BAD AT QUESTION ASKING
|
|
|
| |
|
Lulu
|
Jun 21 2016, 08:58:49 PM
Post #22
|
|
- Posts:
- 474
- Group:
- Institute of War
- Member
- #34
- Joined:
- Jun 16, 2016
|
I got min as 16 and max as 20 with Strategy 2. I can try to type out an explanation if anyone would like one.
|
|
|
| |
|
Amumu
|
Jun 21 2016, 09:00:57 PM
Post #23
|
|
- Posts:
- 311
- Group:
- Jury
- Member
- #15
- Joined:
- Jun 3, 2016
|
- Lulu
- Jun 21 2016, 08:58:49 PM
I got min as 16 and max as 20 with Strategy 2. I can try to type out an explanation if anyone would like one. I would like one to make sure we're counting the same.
|
|
|
| |
|
Lulu
|
Jun 21 2016, 09:15:53 PM
Post #24
|
|
- Posts:
- 474
- Group:
- Institute of War
- Member
- #34
- Joined:
- Jun 16, 2016
|
I'm writing one, it might take a while
|
|
|
| |
|
Lulu
|
Jun 21 2016, 09:58:57 PM
Post #25
|
|
- Posts:
- 474
- Group:
- Institute of War
- Member
- #34
- Joined:
- Jun 16, 2016
|
nerd stuff Let's assume all of the champions wind up in the small groups on the first three questions. Those numbers are easiest to work with, and the probability is approximately the same whether they're in the small groups or not.
Question 1: "Are all three champions above the word 'the' in alphabetical order?" (separates the last 27 from the first 104) Answer: NO
Question 2: "Are at least two champions above the word 'sip' in alphabetical order?" (separates the last 38 from the first 93 (chances of this are approximately 50/50)) Answer: NO
Question 3: "Is at least one champion above the word 'map' in alphabetical order?" (separates first half of list from last half of list) Answer: NO
At this point, we know: there's at least one champion in the last 27; there's at least two champions in the last 38; all three champions are in the last 66.
From here, you split each section in half repeatedly (using "at least one" questions) until you single out where each champion is. However, there are possible shortcuts. I'll start with the min.
MIN
Start by cutting down the smallest group, 27 Question 4: "Is at least one champion between the word 'the' and the word 'via' in alphabetical order?" (separates first 13 from last 14) Answer: YES
That eliminates the last 14 from EVERY group, leaving us with the following information: there's at least one champion in the last 27, but not in the last 14 (in other words, in #27-15 from the back; it's a group of 13); there's at least two champions in #38-15 from the back (group of 24); all three champions are in #66-15 from the back (group of 52).
Keep doing that.
Question 5: "Is at least one champion between the word 'the' and the word 'type' in alphabetical order?" (separates first 6 from last 7) Answer: YES
New groups: at least one champion in #27-22 from the back (group of 6) at least two champions in #38-22 from the back (group of 17) all three champions are in #66-22 from the back (group of 45)
Question 6: "Is at least one champion between the word 'the' and the word 'trust' in alphabetical order?" (separates first 3 from last 3) Answer: YES
New groups: at least one champion in #27-25 from the back (group of 3) at least two champions in #38-25 from the back (group of 14) all three champions are in #66-25 from the back (group of 42)
Question 7: "Is one of the champions Trundle?" (separates last 1 from first 2; went with Trundle to make the later groups connect and make them easier to follow) Answer: YES
New groups: at least one champion #25 from the back (group of 1 - done) at least two champions in #38-26 from the back (group of 13) all three champions are in #66-26 from the back (group of 41)
Now you take care of the second group.
Question 8: "Is at least one champion between the word 'sip' and the word 'tab' in alphabetical order?" (separates first 6 from last 7) Answer: YES
New groups: Trundle at least one champion in #38-33 from the back (group of 6) two champions are in #66-33 from the back (group of 34)
Question 9: "Is at least one champion between the word 'sip' and the word 'soon' in alphabetical order?" (separates first 3 from last 3) Answer: YES
New groups: Trundle at least one champion in #38-36 from the back (group of 3) two champions are in #66-36 from the back (group of 31)
Question 10: "Is one of the champions Sona?" (separates last 1 from first 2; went with Sona to make the last group connect and make it easier to follow) Answer: YES
New groups: Trundle Sona one champion in #66-37 from the back (group of 30)
Do the last group. Rounded down optimally: 30/2 = 15 15/2 = 7 7/2 = 3 3/2 = 1
Four rounds. So technically, the min on this is 14 questions.
MAX This is much simpler. The three groups starting from question 3 are the following sizes: 27 38 66
With fully suboptimal questions, the amount of questions you would have to ask for each group would be found by rounding the group sizes to the next largest power of 2:
27 rounds to 32 = 5 questions to solve 38 rounds to 64 = 6 questions to solve 66 rounds to 128 = 7 questions to solve (we could probably try to make sure this is 64 by changing Question 3 to try to get a group of 64, if it came down to it, leading to this only being 6 questions)
5 + 6 + 7 + 3 initial questions = 21
So my math was off initially. The min is 14 and the max is 21.
|
|
|
| |
|
Lulu
|
Jun 21 2016, 10:00:20 PM
Post #26
|
|
- Posts:
- 474
- Group:
- Institute of War
- Member
- #34
- Joined:
- Jun 16, 2016
|
in case it wasn't clear ^ that is my work Amumu
|
|
|
| |
|
Lulu
|
Jun 21 2016, 10:08:15 PM
Post #27
|
|
- Posts:
- 474
- Group:
- Institute of War
- Member
- #34
- Joined:
- Jun 16, 2016
|
also worth mentioning is that the average result for this, if we were dealing with true 50/50 cuts each time (which we can't do), would be just barely over 16 questions. so we should be aiming for something around that.
Edited by Lulu, Jun 21 2016, 10:08:39 PM.
|
|
|
| |
|
Amumu
|
Jun 21 2016, 10:11:25 PM
Post #28
|
|
- Posts:
- 311
- Group:
- Jury
- Member
- #15
- Joined:
- Jun 3, 2016
|
I think any way you cut it the minimum for any method is going to be 18.
Start by cutting down the smallest group, 27 Question 4: "Is at least one champion between the word 'the' and the word 'via' in alphabetical order?" (separates first 13 from last 14) Answer: YES
That eliminates the last 14 from EVERY group, leaving us with the following information:
I don't think this is correct. 1, 2, or 3 could be in this group, not just 1 person. And 1 or 2 could be in the other half. This question doesn't eliminate who suspect #2 or #3 are and shouldn't make their group smaller.
Also I think getting YES instead of all NO's at the beginning will increase the max #'s, because we're getting an answer to a question but not narrowing things down too much. Your third question assumes we'll eliminate half the contestants in one question - I don't think that will be likely.
If you want to do a practice round I can pick three random people and you can spitfire questions at me to see how well it works? But I think most strategies will have roughly the same stats as long as we're asking the right questions and I think the initial strategy is the most straight forward way to make sure we're asking the right questions and not overlooking anything.
|
|
|
| |
|
Lulu
|
Jun 21 2016, 10:21:19 PM
Post #29
|
|
- Posts:
- 474
- Group:
- Institute of War
- Member
- #34
- Joined:
- Jun 16, 2016
|
...true. Then, ignoring the shortcut where you can cut things from every group, that changes the min from 14 to 18. You're right. Though, getting all YES at the beginning actually makes the min 16 if you round everything to the nearest whole number.
Explain how the first strategy's mins and maxes work?
|
|
|
| |
|
Teemo
|
Jun 21 2016, 10:24:44 PM
Post #30
|
|
Scouty McScoutface
- Posts:
- 200
- Group:
- Jury
- Member
- #31
- Joined:
- Jun 16, 2016
|
I'm just here right now in awe of you wonderful Yordles making mathemagic happen
|
|
|
| |
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
|
|