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EDGIC Form Link
Please complete the above link prior to deadline to participate in EDGIC ratings this game. Please also share your rationale for reasoning in this thread. You may use either traditional edgic or the gamestyle analysis format in the poll. Someone will tabulate results and post the aggregate rating for each episode.
EDGIC is basically a rating system that is used to analyze patterns of how players are portrayed to see if winners can be determined from earlier in the game. It's using narratives and editing in a logical way based on many winning stereotypes.
Links of past EDGIC threads below:
Bad Edgic (School) Nexus Edgic (Nexus) Medical EDGICuation (Medevac) Medgic Kingdom (MK) LoL Edgic (LoL) Monica Lewedgic (2016) Affirmative Action Edgic (2016) Eon Edgic (Eon) Whitnedgic (BotB) Eminedgic (BotB)
EDGIC description INV - Invisible
Definition: A character, within the episode, that is edited to be irrelevant or insignificant to any of the stories. In terms of story... they don't have one.
The character... had no confessionals or tribal council questions. was ignored, lacking even in screen/face time; receives NO SPECIAL FOCUS during group exchanges such as intros, pick-ems and challenges was portrayed as irrelevant to the episode or story and/or is lacking in any character development. received NO SPV that refer exclusively to them (usually meaning by name). SPV's about a character's alliance or tribe don't count. there is no complexity, no development Note: - The character's visibility is functionally 0. - A character who gets a confessional, recap focus, story development, or tribal council question is never INV. - The character's accumulated VF, if there is any, comes from mostly background noise, group discussion, etc. - INV is used to convey an extreme sense of absence in the episode
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UTR - Under the Radar (Under Developed, Low-level Complexity)
Definition: A character, within the episode, that is edited to be either under-utilized or deliberately hidden (the trick is figuring out which). In story terms, they may have a role in the story but are being kept out of focus.
The character... receives little or no significant game relevant development. Zero to a few confessionals or TCQs. may have received significant screen time, but personal character development is of low quality and not particularly extreme. Isn't seen doing or saying anything special or of major significance; may receive UNUSUAL or extensive focus during group exchanges like pick'ems, intros, or (possibly) challenges (ie. where verbal exchanges are subtitled; actions are "replayed" for the audience; or the scene is overly-emphasized by Probst) may have had some sort of "role" or part in the episode, but will generally be void of direct conflicts and/or character insight. may have received SPV from another player(s). narrates the game (i.e., tells the audience about basic goings-on in the tribe). Narration is uncomplex and can be talking about camp life, things others are doing, upcoming game events like challenges, or even talking about the very basic plans of a larger group they are a part of (e.g., "our tribe wants to focus on beating the other one in challenges" or "our alliance wants to eliminate the people in the minority"). does not answer any questions of why or how (and rarely any of the other Ws for that matter). ie. Jim: I think Frank is in an alliance. Note: - UTR characters may get nothing to make them stand out as a person or may get little bits of who they are. However, it will not be the primary focus of their footage (see OTT).
- Because most low visibility characters fail to accumulate significant game or personal character development in their brief time onscreen, many of them are UTR. However, assignment of the UTR rating itself should have nothing to do with visibility. A low visibility character may qualify for MOR, OTT, or even CP at times when their brief content is particularly dense. A high visibility character may still lack any significant personal development or game-related insight.
- Game-relevant events that relate to this character, but are not spoken about by this character, do not increase their level of personal development (e.g., if Joe says "My alliance consists of Jimmy, Jack, and Jill," Jimmy, Jack, and Jill are not considered to develop significantly unless they get to comment on the development in some way themselves).
- When the episode ends, the character's overall development is virtually unchanged. We learned little to nothing about their game play from them.
MOR - Middle of the Road (Mid-level Complexity)
Definition: A character, within the episode, that says and does more than a UTR edit, but is lacking in character development (ie. we still don't know anything about them or what makes them tick). MOR edits are not oversimplified into OTT nor are they well-rounded into CP. In terms of story, these characters tend towards being a supporting character. This edit may contain "very strategic" moments, but without the emotional and intellectual insights necessary for a complex edit.
The character... receives moderate levels of game relevant development. Few to several confessionals and/or TCQs. They may speak about the game, alliances, plans, etc., but the statements appear incomplete or shallow. We are given a sense of where the character's mind is, but many elaborative questions are left unanswered. received low to significant screen time and may have done something notable, but overall, there was a lack in quality and depth. May receive any type of personal character development — from no personal development to very high personal development. will likely have had some sort of "role" or part in the episode, but it was as a secondary or supporting role. May have received UNUSUAL FOCUS during group encounters, BUT this focus was likely linked to someone else and was used as a tool to shine light elsewhere. may or may not have received SPV from another player(s). mid-level of complexity, CP-lite, When a character receives enough complexity that UTR seems inappropriate, but not enough complexity to warrant a full-blown CP. tells us his/her needs, wants, strategies but fails to tell us the whys and hows. (ie. Jim: I want to be in an alliance with Frank.) Note: Winners are often portrayed as MOR at some point in the story due to the necessity of cooling down, story-wise. However, a consistently MOR edit is not always good thing either, because these characters more often than not, end up being kind of "blah" and "just kind of there". It's important with heavily MOR players to ensure that a closer look is taken with regard to their content - are they consistent? are they carving out some sort of story? etc.
Pure narrators are no longer MOR as of Survivor 24. A character with all narration and no complexity is UTR. A character with some narration and some complexity is MOR. --
CP - Complex Personality (High-level Complexity)
Definition: A character, within the episode, that emerges as a "personality" that is well-rounded and well-developed (intellectually, emotionally, personally and strategic/game-wise). The editing has depth, we see their strengths and weaknesses, and their choices are presented to the audience so that we get an insight into their thinking. In terms of story, these characters usually end up being major players in the story (game) and their choices end up shaping the overall, long-term story.
The character... receives a high amount of game relevant complexity. Few-to-several QUALITY confessionals and/or TC questions and/or camp discussions. Their thoughts, motivations, and plans are laid out in detail. The viewer knows exactly what a character intends to do and why. received moderate to significant QUALITY screen/face time, does something notable or important, and was given the opportunity to talk about it. Receives any amount of personal development from very low to very high. (Strategy, game, and complex emotions like remorse, loneliness, guilt, etc or an internal conflict over a situation are shared with the audience. Their thinking process and how these feelings/thoughts/events are affecting them and their game are expressed intelligently and maturely). had a fairly significant "role" or part in the episode, and that role is part of the driving force of the story. The story for the episode "revolved" around this character, at least partially. may have received SPV from another player(s). Highly complex, may have moments of OTT (or even UTR) within a single episode since being well-rounded and complex would, by definition, include being obtuse, one-note or single-minded. answers the questions Why and How. (Jim: I want to be in an alliance with Frank because Frank is stronger than me and will take some of the attention from me come the merge) Note: Winners are usually portrayed as CP at several points in the overall story since the story needs to be about them. However, this may not be the case in the early episodes if the winner starts out with a purposeful strategy of UTR. CPs after the merge are common / expected for the winner.
Strategy alone does not equal CP; there needs to be something to back up the strategy.
Some CP characters are all about the game. Some CP characters also have a personal side. Some CP characters even have extreme personalities
CP footage typically (but not always) is delivered in confessional form. Thus, many CP characters are also high visibility. As is the case with other ratings, visibility should not influence the decision about whether or not to give a CP rating. Many characters need a ton of footage to give very elaborative thoughts but rarely a character will say something incredibly detailed and complex in a short window of time.
CP is generally the most “dominant” rating available. If a character meets criteria for CP, whether they meet criteria for another type of rating is largely irrelevant – CP is typically the correct score to assign.
CP refers to a well-developed character that plays a large role in the game structure. We see the game through the eyes of CP individuals and are often asked to take their perspective on situations. Though these characters are often big “strategists,” anyone who offers significant and detailed thoughts on the game and how they approach it may receive this rating. --
OTT - Over the Top
Definition: A character, within the episode, that is over-simplified or presented as a one-dimensional, one-note caricature. In terms of story, these characters are usually used to create drama and to distract us from the winner. They are the ones we love to love (the hero, the sweetheart) or the ones we love to hate (the villain, the buffoon, the arrogant jerk, the right-royal-beyotch).
The character... receives a very low amount of game-relevant footage, if any at all. Had a few-to-several confessionals and/or TC questions; confessionals and other discussions were generally one-sided, emotional and repetitive, without depth of thought or rationality expressed, lacked in strategy or strategy not expressed with much internal conflict (but probably had lots and lots of conflict with other people); OTT characters rarely, if ever, explain their motivations in the context of the game. received moderate to significant screen time; receives an extreme amount of personal character development. Their personality is highlighted strongly and is the central focus of their footage. Often they are a “caricature” of a real person. Confessionals were used to "paint" the character into a certain type of cartoon-like role (like the evil villain twirling their moustache, etc) or other extreme behaviour such as no remorse for hurtful actions, focusing only on loyalty or saving one's own skin, an absence of "evil" strategizing when there should be, etc. had a moderate to significant "role" or part in the episode. OTT characters are entertaining and are often the "scene-stealer" or the "drama-maker" for the episode. The story for the episode "revolved" around this character, at least partially. most likely received SPV from other players; SPV was used to reinforce the OTTness and the SPV was extreme or underscored the actions of the player in question. has very little complexity and will likely not have moments of depth or a "range of complexity" within a single episode. This is a one-dimension edit, and if the edit contains significant moments of "CP" then it is not OTT. If the edit is overwhelmingly OTT with only a few, minor moments of CP, and accompanied by OTT music, etc, then OTT may still be a better fit. may tell us about their wants and needs, but fails to tell us the hows and whys. In addition, will probably express those needs irrationally, and may blame or finger-point or display other extreme reactions to the situation. Note: OTT players are not exclusively the "in your face" high vis player. It is also possible for a minor character to receive footage that conveys an extreme amount of character development. An OTT edit can also be one where the focus of the screen-time was used to show the character repeating the same actions over and over (for example, someone who is being portrayed as a blabber mouth, will have several repeated scenes of them talking over and over, or close ups of their mouth talking, etc).
OTT Characters rarely receive an opportunity to talk about a situation or to express themselves rationally about it.
OTT characters often have tone, as well, because their antics are frequently spun a certain way for the audience. However, an OTT character does not require tone. A character can have a personality-defined, extreme edit without the edit taking a particular side on their behaviour.
OTT could be thought of as a special case of UTR. While the character still receives low game complexity, their footage highlights their personality instead. OTT characters are often (but not always) the focal point of an episode and are often (but not always) polarizing forces within the game.
Not all OTT players stay this way, and often an OTT player will go UTR for awhile if the editors want to bring them back to the main storyline as a more well-rounded character.
Some General Considerations
- As Survivor has become a more game-focused show, the extent to which characters fit into this concept of "playing the game" is generally of great interest to Edgic participants. Thus, the main focus of the Rating scale is the UTR – MOR – CP sequence, which represents a continuum of game-relevant complexity for characters. INV provides extra clarity for extreme lack of visibility and OTT provides an indication that a character is being defined by their personality and not their game.
- The titles for the different ratings have remained the same over the many years of Edgic’s existence but their definitions have evolved over time. For example, one might identify a character who is highly complex, but has low character development as a person. Though the current coding system would identify them as CP (“Complex Personality”) it might be tempting to argue that CP cannot be appropriate because their “personality,” defined literally, was not complex. Similarly, you might suggest that a character with no speaking roles or significance to the episode appeared in the background and thus were not literally “invisible.” In short, general convention is to use current coding procedures, (ie., game-relevant content), instead of literal applications of the code names.
Common Contrasts (These aren't carved in stone, but this is an attempt to explain how the ratings are viewed, and argued about, today.)
- UTR vs. INV. The key difference between UTR and INV is the amount of visibility. If a character has significant and appreciable visibility such that 1-5 seems appropriate, they are UTR. If a character is so absent that 0 seems appropriate, they are INV.
- UTR vs MOR. This is still controversial. While some argue that UTR should be applied as a measure of complexity without consideration of the amount of visibility, this contradicts it's comparison to INV, which is all about visibility. If MOR is a measure of complexity that is too low to rate CP, what is UTR? Lower than MOR complexity? How can a character have significant (3 to 5) visibility and less complexity than MOR? I expect this argument to come up again this season.
- MOR vs. CP. Here, we are focused on the depth and fullness of a character’s perspective – not merely the frequency of it. A MOR character may talk about the game, but it’s lacking in impact. Someone can have 4 game-relevant confessionals but gloss over the issue in each one while another characters gets one very well put together and coherent thought. Imagine it as if you were a teacher grading a character on how complex they were and needed to give someone “partial credit.” MOR would be a character that gets “partial credit” for being complex.
- CP vs. OTT. Sometimes a character with an extreme amount of personal development will also be game-complex. Despite the high level of character development present in an OTT edit, OTT characters are not game-complex. An OTT does not explain his/her actions or motivations – he/she is defined by those actions. CP characters, on the other hand, are more flexibly defined – many types of characters can be high in complexity, as it is the complexity that defines them.
- MOR vs. OTT. The jury is still out on how to best handle this issue. While some might argue that the complexity present in an MOR edit should take precedence over whatever character development the character has, others might say that an extreme level of character development supercedes the moderate level of complex game-relevant development. Until further consensus can be reached, it might be best to evaluate this on a case-by-case basis.
Tone Edgic rates characters based on the editorial slant of the episode, or Tone. Tone can be neutral, positive (P), negative (N), or mixed (M). Extreme versions of both P and N are also used.
Neutral The majority of edits in Survivor are editorially neutral. The edit pairs the character’s words/actions with no special musical cues, other characters and Jeff do not comment on the character in an evaluative way, and the overall narrative of the episode does not convey anything about the character that is inherently good or bad.
Positive (P) There is significant evidence of editorial manipulation for the character in the positive direction. This can take many forms including: Positive (e.g., sympathetic) music paired with a character’s words/actions. Other characters or Jeff speaking about the character in a clearly and unambiguously positive way, especially if surrounding footage emphasizes or confirms these evaluations.
The exception to the above is when positive evaluations from others are refuted by surrounding footage. If someone calls Jessica a fantastic person because she is so modest, followed immediately by Jessica taking all of her clothes off and dancing around the fire, the positive evaluation is being deliberately shown as faulty/misinformed.
The overall narrative of the episode is clearly set up so that a character is a positive force. This is very tricky to identify and should be used extremely sparingly, if ever. A good example is Mike's evacuation in Australia. There’s no positive music, other characters don’t necessarily evaluate him positively, but his exit is handled in a pretty unambiguously positive fashion. Common “Positive” traits include things like being hard working, intelligent, kind, sympathetic, skillful, a good leader, etc. This is neither a complete nor an exclusive list.
Note - T.ears and crying are NOT automatically P. Look beyond the visuals to see if the music is sympathetic, if others are saying or doing something to indicate that the t.ears are meant as a P or not.
Super Positive (PP) The character is so unbelievably and overtly positive that it deserves special recognition. The character may get special, rare, heroic, soaring music. Other characters may refer to them in terms that make them seem saintly, heroic, near-omnipotent, or extremely sympathetic. Notable examples: Holly in Nicaragua gave up her reward so that the rest of their tribe could eat. Jenna quits in All Stars so she can rush to her dying mother’s side. Astronaut Dan in Exile Island is routinely voted out and gets a hero’s goodbye for some reason. Penner's evac in Fans Vs. Favorites where he doesn't want to go but is forced to by the doctors, and Jeff lavishing him with compliments and the boat ride with the soaring music playing...
Negative (N) There is significant evidence of editorial manipulation for the character in the negative direction. This can take many forms including: Negative (e.g., “dopey” or "evil") music (or sound effects) paired with a character’s words/actions. Other characters or Jeff speaking about the character in a clearly and unambiguously negative way, especially if surrounding footage emphasizes or confirms these evaluations.
The exception to the above is when negative evaluations from others are refuted by surrounding footage. If someone calls Larry lazy followed by footage of Larry working his ass off, the negative evaluation is being deliberately shown as faulty/misinformed. The overall narrative of the episode is clearly set up so that a character is a negative force. This is very tricky to identify and should be used extremely sparingly, if ever. Good example pending.
If a character offers a comment about another character that the footage refutes, this is generally negative for the commenter. If Vince calls Larry lazy and then Larry is shown working hard, Vince looks a bit foolish for making his original comment. Common “Negative” traits include things like being lazy, stupid, naïve, cruel, bigoted, etc. This is neither a complete nor an exclusive list.
Super Negative (NN)
The character is so incredibly vile that it deserves special recognition. The character may get special, rare, evil music. Other characters may refer to them in terms that make them seem incredibly terrible to coexist with. Notable examples: Natalie in Fans Vs. Favorites talks at length about destroying Erik, ripping him apart, and “flossing with his jugular.” Russell Hantz in Samoa’s premiere spends the entire episode talking up his own evil, destructive nature. NaOnka in Nicaragua has decided to quit, but refuses to give up her food reward for the good of the tribe with only hours left in the game. Philip in Redemption Island goes on a racially charged rant about how merely calling him crazy is equivalent to calling him an *n-word.*
Mixed (M)
This is a special Tone designation. It technically is a type of Neutral Toned edit, but where the player has amounts of notable negative and positive scenes in the same episode.
This rating helps differentiate from the "nothing" (neutral) tone of a neglected character or the static neutral of a middle of the road or complex character. It shows ACTIVE manipulation of a character, rather than a passive or neglected edit.
Lastly, there should be a notable amount of P and N manipulation. If the majority of the edit in that episode has zero tone manipulation, but with one small P and one small N, it would be better rated as a Neutral. The character needs to have actual tone content. The edit needs to be shown as giving us information that this character has been positive or negative in a scene.
Some General "Tone" Considerations
- The purpose of Tone ratings is to capture the editors’ intentions about how the audience will react to a character. In all cases of tone voting, one should be able to cite exactly why they believe there is evidence that the editors advocate a certain perspective. “I got a feeling…” may be a persuasive argument at times, but will not be as effective as an evidence-based argument.
- Actual audience reaction (on any scale) to a character may or may not match the editorial emphases their tone ratings imply. For this reason, it is recommended that Edgic participants do NOT rate based on personal preferences for a character or personal evaluations of a character’s behavior.
For example, Rupert from Pearl Islands is generally quite unpopular on Sucks. However, the editing of Pearl Islands is very pro-Rupert, portraying him as a sort of pirate superhero. On the other hand, the editing of Russell in Samoa is relentlessly negative from start to finish, highlighting him as the supreme evil force and greatest villain of all time. Despite this, Russell won the fan favorite vote easily that season.
Maintaining neutrality in these cases is difficult and extra effort should be taken so as not to imbue one’s own personal values on the decision. As an extreme and contrived example, a sommelier might react in horror to the way the Survivors open up wine at a feast and drink straight from the bottle (rather than a proper vessel). This does not make the wine-drinking Survivors in question N – there’s no reason to believe that improper wine drinking behavior is being highlighted with a particular interpretation in mind. A more realistic example might be a character who states on air that she got an abortion. It is not appropriate for pro-life participants to automatically give her an N, while pro-choice participants give her a P. The focus should be on how the editors handle this revelation, not the revelation itself. Tone ratings should not be a barometer of Edgic participants’ morality.
- To expand on the above, it should be mentioned that within the game of Survivor, some otherwise unsavory behaviors may be portrayed as more neutral-to-positive. In the real world, lying is generally bad. In Survivor, lying can be presented as a necessity or even as a positive thing (depending on who’s doing it and how). In reality, taking a valuable item and planting a decoy in its place would be illegal and generally bad – in Survivor, creating or planting a fake immunity idol can be portrayed as a clever and “positive” trick.
- PP and NN are very rare, used only in the most extreme circumstances.
- Tone should be seen as conceptually independent from Rating and Visibility. While it is pretty much impossible to be INV and have tone (because you need to be in the episode in some appreciable way for the editors to manipulate something about you), any other combination is plausible. Obviously, some combinations are more frequent than others.
Gamestyle Analysis (alternative system) description After discussion with BRO, thought about a different system other than EDGIC that might better describe the live nature of social games. Edgic is a system based on how editors manipulate the narratives after the result has already been revealed and therefore they can retroactively plan out stories. Since Edgic does not have the opportunity to know the overall scheme of everything, and it is based on outguessing the editor, sometimes edgic ratings don't really translate that well and there really isn't much uniformity in the ratings. Due to the live nature of social games, perhaps a new system based on playstyle analysis might help with pattern analysis of successful winners much like how edgic uses editing pattern analysis of successful winners.
I thought of the system focusing on the spectrum of avoidance<--->approach based on personal/character development and advancement. Many of the ratings seem parallel to edgic based on how much the editor/player wants to advance the narrative of the individual. This spectrum parallels edgic in that INV means the edit avoids the character, and ott could be said to over-approach a character.
Here's the suggested rating system:
(INV) Avoidant- these players are either on vacation or are actively avoiding addressing issues and are doing little in their power to help advance themselves further. This is an active choice rather than just keeping the status quo. Therefore, someone who is willingly staying in the minority and not changing is avoiding the status quo rather than maintaining it. Sometimes seen as clueless as well. Examples: Spheal in Eon, Bernie in #2016, Joanna in BotB
(UTR) Status Quo - these players barely make a presence, are barely mentioned by other players (unless in an alliance), and do what they can to maintain the status quo. They are neutral, essentially, because they are not advancing themselves individually further, but are also not avoiding it or breaking down boundaries. However, there is effort to keep the game status as it is, because the player believes it will benefit him/her. Examples: Bachmann in #2016
(MOR) Reaction-Oriented Advancement - These players are focusing on the current tribal and are making plans and advancing their game based on the events in this specific round. Their focus is how to avoid being the next one out in their tribe and are thinking of the immediate game. They are also explaining this for their rationale. This rating should trump others when someone demonstrates the same characterization. Players who are often reaction-oriented may simply be in a horrible situation and are forced to play due to circumstance. Nonetheless, these players are reacting to events or other players' moves. Good players can be reaction-oriented due to their flexibility, but too much being reaction-oriented may mean that the player does not feel that they have clout or it can also mean that the player is so often targetted that they don't have a chance to get out of this mode. Example: Rubio in #2016, Tove Lo in BotB
(CP) Goal-Oriented Advancement - These players are aiming for the end and are making plans to do so. Their focus is who can help them get to the end or the next few rounds are and are thinking steps ahead. They are also explaining that is the reason why they are taking actions. Players can be both goal-oriented and passive, but what matters is how the player chooses to categorize their thinking. Players who are goal-oriented and are taking initiative and may have more confidence in their play or their alliance and therefore can think ahead of the turn. Examples: Barbara or Trump in #2016
(OTT) Overplay - These players are advancing themselves and taking actions, but not to the benefit to their own individual game. A chaos player can fall into this category, but also a player who knowingly is trying to play a game that benefits a close ally more than themself. On a round per round basis, it might not hurt, but on a long-term basis it can. Examples: Tulsi in #2016
Tone should be based on SPV (second person visibility). If others are talking well about a player for the sake of the player and not because of a spec/TC question. The adjectives/adverbs used or praise/criticism placed must be unprompted. For example xofelf says "I enjoy chatting with Kelly because he makes me laugh", that would be positive SPV and may lead to a P tone for Kelly. However if xofelf is asked which tribe members she enjoys, then this would not lead to tone.
Perhaps this system can help because there's often the question of active vs. reactive players. If pattern analysis helps determine how often a player should be reactive vs. active vs. maintaining status quo - will it help players in the future know how to optimally play socially to ensure that there's a balance and not an overabundance as well? IE: Tulsi played goal-oriented well - and it's a good rating to have - but was it too much that there wasn't a cooldown and therefore she became such a huge target?
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