Illy's idea for the next 'multiplayer' Oblivion...

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Illy's idea for the next 'multiplayer' Oblivion...; To pwn your friends online...
Topic Started: Jul 5 2009, 03:34 AM (254 Views)
Hypedupturtle	Jul 18 2009, 02:44 AM Post #21
The British Dude Posts: 5,437 Group: Member Member #45 Joined: December 6, 2007	Snake_Judge Jul 18 2009, 02:24 AM I don't think so. I fell Multiplayer takes too much from the single player aspects of every game that has both. Great case is the champions of norrath series (PS2 games for those who don't know) The game's story and play suffered mightily from the multiplayer options. They had the great potential to be a great counsel RPG by an American developer but basically turned in to a beat-em-up game with elves and goblins. Now I can understand why SOME games have multilayer, I mean a shooter would get really old after one or two play troughs without it, but the growing trend of every game having multiplayer is a travesty.Games like the Elder Scrolls, Bioshock, Resident Evil and Fallout are more of a single person experience for the story and the sense of isolation in the cases of the the last 3. As seen with RE5 the action paced multiplayer action is hurting the series. Don't believe me? try playing that game with out a friend, Sheva will drive you insane from her incompetence. I am highly apprehensive about Bioshock 2 because of the multiplayer, I know it isn't a main focus but all I have read about it is talking about the multiplayer applications it has and that means something was left to lag and that is normally story and ambiance, two things that first drew me in to Elder Scrolls and the Fallout series. I still maintain that well applied and thought out multiplayer can add more to a game than it does damage. Games like COD4 would not be the same without their multiplayer. The option for multiplayer in games such as TES (I'm not talking about TES MMO), so long as it remains an option and not a necessity cannot harm players enjoyment, because it is their choice whether to use it or not and if well implemented can be no threat to the game in question - as others have said, imagine being able to quest with a partner in TES IV - what possible harm could that do, if it was totally optional but available to those who wanted it? As for the MMO argument, that is just one group of opinionated people vs. another - both have strong points and although I tend to fall on the MMO side I accept that fans might be apprehensive at the thought of 'their games' being made into MMOs. Note that my arguments are based a lot around skilled and careful application. Of course a dodgy implementation can ruin the name of its host - that goes without saying, and there always have and always will be dodgy implementations, both on the singleplayer and multiplayer/MMO sides. However I dont think that if one person dislikes something (the latest game in a series being an MMO for eg.), but hundreds of others like the idea, that that person can then say all of sed things are bad in general. Of course there will be people with whom an idea is less popular with. WoW itself is testament to that, just as an eg that most are familiar with - you get a large number of people involved (11mill last I heard) then the amounts of people who actively and vociferously like/dislike WoW will also shoot up proportionally, therefore making the controversy and argument seem more pronounced. 'You hear more when you are listening' so to speak. Oh my god I didn't mean to write all that I pity the poor sod who has tried to read and make sense of that - good job if you managed to decipher my point though



lettuceman44	Jul 18 2009, 04:58 AM Post #22
Emperor Posts: 7,099 Group: Admin Member #5 Joined: December 3, 2007	MMO's = 50 people in a town doing a dance animation.



Hypedupturtle	Jul 18 2009, 06:18 AM Post #23
The British Dude Posts: 5,437 Group: Member Member #45 Joined: December 6, 2007	lettuceman44 Jul 18 2009, 04:58 AM MMO's = 50 people in a town doing a dance animation. So what? A lot of singleplayer games dont even have a dance animation = MMO win - It's in good spirit, it might be a social gathering of a guild, or a group of friends just larking about in game - I mean you can have a laugh with your mates in singl... oh dammit. Well at least you can get drunk irl and have a blast with your mates in a sing... oh Well at least if you're having trouble in a singleplayer game you can call in help from... oh [censored]e And furthermore, the fact that there are 50 people using a dance animation in a town doesn't necessarily have to affect you. yea, it's called 'avoidance' and its something you can choose to employ in MMOs Basically, and this is the genius of it I might add, you can basically, ignore people, and 9/10 they will actually, like, ignore you I hear its like that in real life too So basically, the game is made more realistic by other peoples actions and reactions in accordance to your actions and reactions, which you could never get in single player game, due to the incredibly complex decision making skills of real human beings, projected through their online avatars all at different times in close proximity to each other, very much mimicking real life, which a computer game's programming cannot currently reproduce to anywhere near the exact level of freedom - However, with an MMO, the game changes around the players; is partly governed by the players; payed for, by the players; fine tuned for the players; updated for the players; and played by the players - this amount of control, whilst not totally realistic, is much more realistic than an army of NPCs could currently produce - in a singleplayer game, you cant just add random NPCs to your group, race across a field, chat together before engaging an opposing NPC who has just decided to wander there to admire the view - yes, you could reproduce this specific scene, but you couldn't make it a spontaneous choice out of millions of different interactions and choices at a specific time, each with varying chances of occuring based upon the NPCs seemingly random actions and reactions to each others behaviour, each governed by a totally distinct supercomputer, which has its own diverse goals, desires, reactions, and identity (ie the Human Brain). Sorry, I'm waffling. What I'm trying to say is: Organic Human Brain > Computer programmed behaviour MMO Avatars = each character controlled by an Organic Human Brain, able to make limited but very complex decisions. An NPCs programming, however advanced cannot currently compete with this level of realism. That is why I'm saying MMO > Singleplayer -----> There is so much more realism involved, if you can get past the cruddy graphics and occasional server crash/bug. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lolz, I kinda spammed this thread - maybe we should move our debate into a new debate thread or something Btw I wasn't exploding, shouting or anything I just meant to counter your argument and typed a bit too much



lettuceman44	Jul 18 2009, 02:09 PM Post #24
Emperor Posts: 7,099 Group: Admin Member #5 Joined: December 3, 2007	Hypedupturtle Jul 18 2009, 06:18 AM lettuceman44 Jul 18 2009, 04:58 AM MMO's = 50 people in a town doing a dance animation. So what? A lot of singleplayer games dont even have a dance animation = MMO win - It's in good spirit, it might be a social gathering of a guild, or a group of friends just larking about in game - I mean you can have a laugh with your mates in singl... oh dammit. Well at least you can get drunk irl and have a blast with your mates in a sing... oh Well at least if you're having trouble in a singleplayer game you can call in help from... oh [censored]e And furthermore, the fact that there are 50 people using a dance animation in a town doesn't necessarily have to affect you. yea, it's called 'avoidance' and its something you can choose to employ in MMOs Basically, and this is the genius of it I might add, you can basically, ignore people, and 9/10 they will actually, like, ignore you I h ear its like that in real life too So basically, the game is made more realistic by other peoples actions and reactions in accordance to your actions and reactions, which you could never get in single player game, due to the incredibly complex decision making skills of real human beings, projected through their online avatars all at different times in close proximity to each other, very much mimicking real life, which a computer game's programming cannot currently reproduce to anywhere near the exact level of freedom - However, with an MMO, the game changes around the players; is partly governed by the players; payed for, by the players; fine tuned for the players; updated for the players; and played by the players - this amount of control, whilst not totally realistic, is much more realistic than an army of NPCs could currently produce - in a singleplayer game, you cant just add random NPCs to your group, race across a field, chat together before engaging an opposing NPC who has just decided to wander there to admire the view - yes, you could reproduce this specific scene, but you couldn't make it a spontaneous choice out of millions of different interactions and choices at a specific time, each with varying chances of occuring based upon the NPCs seemingly random actions and reactions to each others behaviour, each governed by a totally distinct supercomputer, which has its own diverse goals, desires, reactions, and identity (ie the Human Brain). Sorry, I'm waffling. What I'm trying to say is: Organic Human Brain > Computer programmed behaviour MMO Avatars = each character controlled by an Organic Human Brain, able to make limited but very complex decisions. An NPCs programming, however advanced cannot currently compete with this level of realism. That is why I'm saying MMO > Singleplayer -----> There is so much more realism involved, if you can get past the cruddy graphics and occasional server crash/bug. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lolz, I kinda spammed this thread - maybe we should move our debate into a new debate thread or something Btw I wasn't exploding, shouting or anything I just meant to counter your argument and typed a bit too much I have animations in TES...... I can do that in TES......... I have the internet and xfire, so dont need to leave game...... I like MMO's........but not for TES. MMO's = crappy quests. In WoW, its all fetch quests and grinding............ MMO's are really there for PVP, although the Old Republic will change that, I guarantee it won't be a "Wow" mmo. Edited by lettuceman44, Jul 18 2009, 02:09 PM.



Unpleasant_Assailant	Jul 18 2009, 02:26 PM Post #25
Chief Global Moderator Posts: 4,704 Group: Global Moderator Member #194 Joined: January 12, 2008	In reality they could do an mmo guild wars style for TES and have something of a storyline.... While I wouldn't mind a TES MMO I would prefer singleplayer.



vanir90210	Jul 18 2009, 03:57 PM Post #26
Budding Lyricist Posts: 2,792 Group: Member Member #394 Joined: May 19, 2008	I think co-op would be the safest bet for Elder Scrolls multiplayer. Or an arena-type thing.
	Spoiler: click to toggle "I look at the eyes, straight to the soul doorway" Redsrock Dammit, Vanir...... I had an awesome daydream of me and Anne Hathaway on a private island. And then in the daydream you came in and murdered her, then asking for my hand in marriage.


crazycyanide	Jul 18 2009, 07:44 PM Post #27
Weakly Interacting Massive Particle Posts: 120 Group: Member Member #532 Joined: May 22, 2009	if it was mmo pvp everywhere in an elder scrolls world it would just be one big fight. i think there should be two options on start screen. campaign i.e. normal elder scrolls game, with the option of coop (assuming its hard enough for coop not to be too easy). and some kind of multiplayer in the same world, minus quests where you have factions with stronholds (which act as spawn points) who fight each other for points and armor. You have the option of using your campaign items in the online mode but the stuff you can win online is better, that way everyone doesnt run around with umbra and 100% reflect damage. (also make it impossible to get 100% enchantments with chamelion, shield, and reflect damage). you gain points for kills, proportionaly to their rank compared with yours. your rank is done by your standing (points) compared with everyone else. you get items and armor with rank, but lose them if you rank down. (and no looting bodys) leveling works the same way as campaign, exept it is infinate, but gets harder and slower to level up, and leveling up has less effect on stength etc.



Illydoor	Jul 18 2009, 08:26 PM Post #28
Slaughterfish Posts: 168 Group: Member Member #527 Joined: May 5, 2009	Quote: Or an arena-type thing. Thaaaank you...



vanir90210	Jul 18 2009, 11:46 PM Post #29
Budding Lyricist Posts: 2,792 Group: Member Member #394 Joined: May 19, 2008	Illydoor Jul 18 2009, 08:26 PM Quote: Or an arena-type thing. Thaaaank you... Yes. Because the spirit of TES is to do what you want in another world, not do what you want based on how powerful you are and whether or not a whole [censored]load of badass daedra worshiping gods with two Wraithguards and full ebony armor and Stendarr's hammer are doing PvP right outside of the city you're in. Edited by vanir90210, Jul 18 2009, 11:49 PM.
	Spoiler: click to toggle "I look at the eyes, straight to the soul doorway" Redsrock Dammit, Vanir...... I had an awesome daydream of me and Anne Hathaway on a private island. And then in the daydream you came in and murdered her, then asking for my hand in marriage.


Illydoor	Jul 19 2009, 03:19 AM Post #30
Slaughterfish Posts: 168 Group: Member Member #527 Joined: May 5, 2009	Exactly what I was trying to get across in my original post.



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