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R.I.P. neildarkstar. Haven will miss you dearly.
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SSE Mods
Topic Started: Oct 29 2016, 09:23 AM (5,042 Views)
Serethil
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Et'Ada
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Yup, love all of them. I actually don't have them for SSE (*sigh* - bandwidth....) but they're just LOVELY in original Skyrim!
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Andra Hawksdaughter
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Jarl
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I'm too afraid to mess with my load order for Eirka, so never got to try them in regular Skyrim. :(

But loving the two Windhelm ones so far in SSE! Haven't made it to Solitude to check the other one out yet.
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Serethil
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Et'Ada
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I really love the Skyway - because it makes it SO much easier to get to Folgunthur....
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Rick
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I have exploded into three threads on Beth.net in the SSE mods section of the community threads!

That betrayer mod maker "Alpine YJ" had like 100 mods that people were suckered into using....good mods too. Suddenly in a hissy fit with Bethesda he just pulls the lot!

Its like a builder coming over to your place and taking his bricks back, leaving you in a pile of rubble.

He can't hurt Beth who don't care....but it hits the user base hard......I mean....if hes not happy to make mods anymore fine....but he could have left them in place right.

This is the problem with having independant third party mod makers.....who even after giving mods to the Beth library...retain the rights to do with them as they please.....after suckering the community into using them.

Beth should stipulate that mods once uploaded can not be pulled out. Only Beth should be able to remove them and only then with very good reason. This I am afraid boosts the case for paid mods.....which no one wants.....but as a user base we need protection against Mod Authors hissy fits. On nexus its not the same issue cos there are so many alternative mods....consoles are more limited.
(Yes...I know the greyed out mods will stay in my LO....but if they get moved or I have to do a console default reset, as happens, then those mods are gone....they are basically on mod death row.)

As you can tell....I am not best pleased!
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Kane
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Thing is, he's allowed to do what he wishes with his mods. It would seem that Alpine doesn't agree with or like the way Bethesda handles mods over there, so he's pulled them in lieu of something better. I would say that in this case, he has a right to be mad at Bethesda. From what I've seen, the new mod section format severely handicaps a modders ability to police their work.

Rick
 
This is the problem with having independant third party mod makers.....who even after giving mods to the Beth library...retain the rights to do with them as they please.....after suckering the community into using them.

Beth should stipulate that mods once uploaded can not be pulled out. Only Beth should be able to remove them and only then with very good reason.

Even though Bethesda gives us the CK, the mods people make with it are their property to do with as they please.

Rick
 
On nexus its not the same issue cos there are so many alternative mods

Not always true. I know of one or two mods I have that are now hidden on the Nexus, for unknown reasons. The key difference is that I already have the mod in a separate folder on my hard drive. Consoles are too limited in that regard.

I know that console modding is a nice gift from Bethesda, but the fact is there will always be problems like this, due to the way mods have to work for them. I know a PC isn't feasible for everyone, but the day of them being too expensive has long since past. For about $200 more than the cost of an Xbone, you could have had a computer similar to mine.
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Areial
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That Suck's big time Rick, but Kane is right... mod author's have the right to do with their mod what they want. I seriously doubt you'd find many willing to "give" their work to Beth.. cause that would probably lead right back into the "paid" mods thing.. which would leave a bitter taste in every ones mouth..again.

I too have mod's that are no longer on Nexus or anywhere else for that matter. My Bard mod's where "hidden" for a while and not available for a while anywhere.
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Rick
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Yeah....but where as on PC you can just treat the mod as a file (which it is) and store it or copy it into directories for saving forever......on console the mods existence is somewhat tenuous. If we could copy the mod to say a USB stick for posterity..that would be fine...but we can't. The first you know there's a problem is when you check your LO and a mod has turned grey.

If you need to reset the consol or mod storage space due to say...orphan scripts (which I think I have) then you lose those greyed out mods for good....then your save file is kaput....bang goes however many hours you put into it....all because one churlish mod maker was feeling a bit pissy with Bethesda.

I know it goes against the established grain.....but really as I said.....if a mod is offered to the Beth library it should not be possible to pull it out....only Beth should be able to do that. It doesn't affect the MAs control of the mod on nexus...or their right to withdraw support (as many do anyways). But what we have now is unacceptable.

MAs dangle enticing mods for us to use.....but they are only lent. We build long plays around them.....and they can wreck them on a whim.

The question is.....if Beth did stipulate that mods once given for use could not be pulled back..........how many MAs would really take umbridge at that?

I mean look at the other side of the coin....MAs WANT their work spread, used and enjoyed by others....that's their kickback and kudos right. They don't get paid in coin....they get paid in recognition and appreciation....maybe even fame!

Well if they want that appreciation they should be prepared to lose the power of being an A.hole by withdrawing mods. I bet most would be fine with it....afterall....if you are not intending to withdraw a mod it shouldn't worry you right!

It doesn't have to sink into a paid mods issue either.......simply Beth writes into their terms that publishing a mod on Beth.net means it has been 'gifted'.
On the site. It doesn't mean Beth owns the IPR for a mod no matter where it turns up.....only where is shows up on Beth.net.

Quite a few MAs have pulled this nasty little stunt already over disagreements with Bethesda and always its US who pay the price. Even USSEP got pulled not too long ago....thankfully he did restore it....but he could have easily chosen not to.

It has to stop! Otherwise there is little point in investing serious time into a modded game......my time is worth money too y'know...all of us "invest" in our games.

I know this.....if I was making mods and "lending" them to a grateful community.....I would never be so rude or mean spirited as to pull them out hurting my fan base. If I got ticked off, maybe I would just not make more....and that's how this kinda thing should be handled.

Lets have an analogy. I am a poet lets say. I like people reading my poetry so I hand it out freely on flyers for you to enjoy.
If I get upset...I can stop writing more poetry. If I get upset with you, I can stop handing it only to you, but still hand it to others....fair enough!

But how about I say to you...give me back the poems I gave you. You could say 'No they are gifts' I own these now. It doesn't mean you own every copy of that poem thst I distributed....only the one on the paper I gave you.

I don't see mod ownership any different....
A MA can gift Bethesda a Mod for distribution....that doesn't mean Beth owns all copies of that mod on all sites....just the one in their mod library. Seems reasonable to me as per the poem analogy.

If a MA won't do that.....I would suspect them of potentially intending to pull the mod out later thus causing damage and upset to the community...so I'd say stuff yer mod if that's your intention, we're better off without you.

But, I don't believe that the majority of mod authors want to harm the community. I believe they simply enjoy mod creating and want others to see their work. I can't see mod withdrawral restrictions stopping them from creating and sharing.

And please don't say its somehow the fault of us users for not spending double a console price on a basic PC, because that really is entirely beside the point! In principle this isn't just a console issue.....we know that desired and hitherto enjoyed mods get pulled from nexus too.....but at least they don't get pulled ditectly from your PC huh!

Imagine that.....
How would PC owners feel if mod authors could somehow deactivate mods you were already using, or had saved, in your PC.....violated I bet, outraged huh!
Maybe MAs could check a box in steam and next time you login, steam sends a cripple command into your saved mods that the owner author wanted taken out of circulation.....Makes you livid just thinking about it doesn't it.......yeah, and that's kinda how it feels to me right now.


Thoughtful people would not do such things.....
Sadly some MAs do not have such good manners and thats why Bethesda should be more pro-active in protecting its communities.

I gotta stop now cos my veins are starting to throb.....
Edited by Rick, Mar 21 2017, 01:44 PM.
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Kane
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If Bethesda told mod authors that any mod submitted to Beth.net was no longer the mod author's property, and that they no longer had control of it, there would be zero mods on Beth.net.

Zero.
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neildarkstar
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As a guy who's made or collaborated on quite a few mods, I have to say this. When I make a mod, it involves time, effort, whatever skills I have, and in the end is no different than the product of any other craftsman of whatever ability... except that I don't get paid, nobody purchases my product so I feel that, in the end, I retain ownership. That means if I want to pull it, I have every right to do so.

For those who downloaded any mod I might have posted, well you've still got the mod as long as you saved it someplace, right? If it becomes obsolete or incompatible with newer releases, that's just too bad. Maybe you should complain to whoever caused me to pull the mod in the first place? :)

I've never pulled a mod, but I DO understand why others might... Consider the case of Alien Slof who made many terrific mods, only to be condemned and reviled in a very personal manner by a collection of prudish ten year-olds. She pulled her mods and now they are only available on her personal page and at Wolflore, but not on Nexus or Beth, and I don't blame her at all. The mods are still available to those who look for them, but she has control over comments and critique.

I almost never download any mods from Steam...
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Andra Hawksdaughter
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Rick, was there any reason given as to why he pulled his mods? You said he had a hissy fit with Beth, any more info?
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Rick
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Well the guy had a string of 'demands' from Beth including control over the comments box and visibility of private mods.....but he clearly knew Beth would not even listen to him let alone capitulate......he was just deeply unhappy with Beth....but its his fan base he punished.

I do not know why someone who willingly provides a mod to a community should think its somehow ok to remove it from people who have already made it part of their load order. Consoles have no abilty to make untouchable saves like pcs can.

Tom...look at my poem analogy mate....there's no reason that the version of a mod sent to Beth.net should be made able to be recinded! And it doesn't give ownership of the entire work to Beth...just what's loaded into the Beth library. But jeez it looks like no one can see that huh!

How about one day you find someone has been into your pc by remote access and crippled your mods.....cos that's practically what we get on console.....still happy with that idea? I bet you're not. You'd be furious at the audacity.

My greyed out mods will be fine until I have to clean out the dead wood...orphans and legacy scripts that build up and mess with the good running mods. Then I will lose them....body mods, armours etc gone! Mods that were part of my saved game...gone!

Can no one see how that is a violation? The difficulty here is a kind of long term entrenched idea of whats acceptable. Of couse a mod author should retain the copyright or IPR for the idea....and be able to drop support for a mod....but to be allowed to remove mods in use...no.

Still can't see it?
Try this....Beth GAVE a free copy of SSE to pc users if they qualified..yes?
Imagine you have adopted the new SSE and have it set up, modded perfectly. Then with no warning Beth runs an update...which is really a kill command to stop the free SSE from booting up! How would you feel about that... even if you can run another version (oldrim)....they have no right to do that....wrecking your painstaking set up. Well it free software..like a mod...and the game IPR remains Beth's....same principle.

Bethesda needs a rethink......we can't have mods we are using just being trashed at a whim....and it doesn't have to work like that. I seriously do not believe that Mod authors would boycott Beth.net just because they weren't allowed to trash console users load orders anymore.

Remember on pc you can save favourite mods to safe directories and ALWAYS reload them into your builds....on consoles we can't. We really need that guarrantee that mods in use won't be taken away....MAs should understand that.....so should Beth.

Not that what I think amounts to a hill of beans in this world huh!
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Areial
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Et'Ada
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Rick, what I see as the biggest problem is that the mod's aren't actually downloaded.. they are in some kind of "holding" cache... with either 500GB or 1 TB.. their is no reason why mod's could not be downloaded..

I'm sure it has something to do with proprietary crap... I don't blame Mod Author's for pulling their mods, while some do make them specifically to share, other's only share because they are being nice.

Your right it IS a problem, but the problem isn't just with the Mod Authors.. it's with the system that isn't allowing the mod's to actually download... I don't see a reason for it.. except control and over-site...

Just my personal point of view, I would not download something I worked very hard to create, if I didn't have the right to fix it..update it.. and delete it if I felt I had a good reason to.

Rick, I understand the pain, truly I do...
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Sakiri
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I remember Slof bailing.

Because people had a problem with her boner mods. Petty, really, on both sides.

That said, I only ever used her horse textures.
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Areial
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Yeah, it was seriously stupid... I really don't get people. Perfect anatomy is fine when it's on a female... public hair and HD clitoris and all.. but God's for fend one do a male right...

Shite, like it just has to be downloaded...
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Serethil
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I never have had an issue with the male anatomy mods - I just don't use them.... It's fine that they're available - and some are very well done. If I played males, I'd probably consider using one of them, but since I don't - well, I just don't need that level of "real".
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Kane
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"Boner mod". Not what I was expecting to read when I came in here this morning.
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Sakiri
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You've never seen Slof's Boners?

That was actually the name of the mod... at least the Oblivion one. I think it was Oblivion.
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Kane
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Nah, I registered at LL, but I don't have any mods of that ilk.
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Rick
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And a Beth.net a little too much ankle gets a mod ban......well.....y'know...practically.
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Kane
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How does DL'ing a mod from Steam work? Do you just manually import it into the NMM?
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