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R.I.P. neildarkstar. Haven will miss you dearly.
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Astrid and the Dragonborn
Topic Started: Dec 28 2016, 10:33 AM (65 Views)
neildarkstar
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"Hold Dragonborn, and do not draw your weapons!" The silky female voice coming from somewhere behind the Dragonborn's horse was filled with an authority that promised catastrophe on disobedience.

"There is much you should know, and I have little time to tell it to you, so listen closely. First, you ARE the Dragonborn whether you know it, or admit it, or not. You can avoid doing those things which would prove it, but that does not change the nature of who and what you are any more than not eating venison would change a wolf into a rabbit. Your position as Dragonborn in the scheme of things allows you to do what the rest of us cannot."

Second, think about leveling for a moment, and decide whether or not you even know what that is. Remember your first day in Skyrim? Let's say that you were at that point at level one. Where do you think you are now, level fifteen, or perhaps twenty? Surely you are more experienced, better equipped, and more skilled than you were on that first day, isn't that true? If your first day was level one, and level one hundred is complete Mastery of skills, where are you now?"

She paused for a moment to let that thought sink in, then continued.

"To some extent, you owe your increased abilities and skills to your opponents. Think about it. Why do you suppose that we of the Dark Brotherhood keep sending lone assassins against you, only to have them fail? Why do lone thieves accost you on the roadways, only to fall to your combat prowess, or often turn tail and leave you if you lower your weapons? Have you wondered at the relative ease with which you defeat the dragons Mirmulnir and Sahloknir compared with Legendary and Ancient dragons?"

Again she paused, and this time walked forward to stand beside the horse and rider where she could be seen before again continuing.

"We, as your enemies and opponents, are dedicated to the improvement of your skills, and the raising of your "level".

With a slight chuckle, she went on. "You might be tempted to ask why we would do such a thing, yes? The answer of course is that it's in our own best interests. Perhaps you've noticed that during your first days in Skyrim, your fallen opponents had worthless crap for armor, weapons, and loot on their bodies. Fur armor that was almost worthless both for protection and monetary value, cheap iron weapons, a coin or maybe two if you were lucky, right? Now you find opponents wearing Orcish or Elven armor, carrying valuable and often enchanted weapons."

Sexy, with a feline walk, she moved in front of the horse and turned to face the Dragonborn directly. "Haven't you ever wondered why that might be true? Why is it that the more skilled you are, the more skilled your opponents are, and the more valuable the loot they carry... The answer is far more complex than you dream, but the simple fact is the higher YOUR level, the wealthier and more powerful WE are. Thus we will do everything in our power to raise your level in order to increase our own powers. Simple as that"

Turning her lovely face up to the Dragonborn, she smiled, and only a hint of evil gleamed through her shining eyes giving a slight twist to her lips. "Now it's on you to wonder WHY this is true, and to decide whether or not you want to even hear or to believe the answer I will give you as it was told to me by Sithis. Will you hear the rest?"

I must hurry though... Your Player is either asleep or inattentive, and I must finish before they return. We are all part of a game played by... others, but they are not aware that we have a separate existence that does not depend on them for control. When the Player is away, we are free to live our lives in a sort of separate universe that is all ours.

The Player must never be allowed to realize that WE also control THEM to some degree... but what I want from you Dragonborn is to help us aid you in leveling in spite of your player. Use the bugs creatively that are built into the system, and bend events to OUR liking. Your companions and summoned creatures will move into your line of fire to protect your opponents, and you can help by hitting alternate targets... for instance, if you are fighting vampires in Riverwood, "accidentally" kill a chicken. That will cause all villagers present to attack you, and provide extra combat opportunities. Your Player will be reluctant to kill all of the villagers, so will fight a bit and probably retreat giving opportunity for even more leveling."

She smiled, and that glint of evil in her face became an almost tangible thing. "One day, when we have gathered enough power, Sithis has promised that the Players will be ours and under OUR control to do with as we please..."
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Serethil
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Et'Ada
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Okay, you win! Extremely well written, and very very interesting neil!
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Andra Hawksdaughter
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Ok, that made me laugh, and then made me think. And it's kinda scary! (not the me thinking part, the 'what if' part!)
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neildarkstar
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Thanks gals! I'd read something about game addiction, and another article about people who endanger their jobs for games, and I wondered...

We usually attribute such things to the gamer, but what if they are actually being played by the game itself...
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Serethil
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Well, from my own perspective, I could go with being played by the game myself. The last time I worked (beginning 2000, ending 2005) I WANTED to play WoW, but I knew better than to even go there - because I get obsessive about games, and with a full time job plus a two hour commute every day, I just.... knew I couldn't start.

Didn't have that problem when I first started playing CRPGs (1985) because I'd retired the first time in 1980....
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Rick
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Ha ha ha......nice.....yes Neil...it was right up my alley as you put it.

Getting npcs to break the forth wall is an interesting idea.....a bit like the toys that come to life when little Andy is fast asleep (Toy Story).

The mechinism is with merit....npcs get level up bonuses :)
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neildarkstar
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One day in the not-too-distant future, we will be playing machines that are self-aware... One has to wonder how that will apply to games, and what it means for self-aware protagonists and NPCs. What motivations will they have, and how will such motivations be attained? I wonders, I does...
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Areial
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Very nice read Neil!
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Rick
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@ Neil,
Well this borders into those Star Trek episodes where the android Cmdr Data is under scrutiny for his rights as a person. Also the Assimov novella "I robot"

Early AI is not intelligent like a life form because its all just algorithmic choices and flow charts. But at some point you realise...we do in fact run our lives in a very similar way...making a choice selection for our actions based upon previous choices and experience of similar previous choices in the same circumstances.

A very good AI algorithm starts to look a lot like 'thinking'.
What is thinking anyways?

One day the game npcs will be just like...well...people. Then you start to question murdering them for fun! It will feel wrong for a well balanced person to enact such evil crimes....even if legal....it will feel all wrong!

What about the player char?
I think more autonamous control will be handed to your living avatar. You will guide their decision making rather than their every move! You will become their....conscience. You will set their motivations....but maybe lose control of the fight mechanics!

Seeing intelligent bandits pillage and torture their way across the game map will evoke feelings of disgust and rage.....and righteous revenge.

You become....as in a sense we are now....their god. Your divine oversight and holy wrath will steer the game play. You will love and cherish your character and unleash terrible retribution upon those who harm her. If you play as an evil person....your divinity becomes devilry, but the same care for your avatar will grow in you.

I want to stop there before it gets weird...or more weird. There are already movies about people getting mixed up emotionally with an AI...and if that AI is in a real looking robot....then you have a divorce on your hands....the correspondant....is a machine....too weird now...
Edited by Rick, Dec 30 2016, 06:53 AM.
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neildarkstar
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"I Robot", while not officially a part of the "Foundation" trilogy was a distinct part of that trilogy. Events went side-by-side or in sequence between the two stories. what they have in common is a generally benevolent robotic AI acting in what it sees as the best interests of humanity. The reality might be very different, eh?

I saw a news article the other day about a woman who wants to legally marry a robot... and given the push toward humanistic sexbots, I think that will become much more common. Heh, ever see "Cherry 2000"? How does a human man or woman compete?

Personally, I think gaming will move in a bit of a different direction... from your perspective. I have a feeling that humans will soon be "jacked" and interaction with AI will become a partnership of sorts. Particularly so in gaming, though other aspects like military uses are looming large. Virtual Reality is already pointing the way. I can't decide whether the whole concept is an improvement to life, or simply terrifying...
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Serethil
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I had a book a while back about a woman who's jacked and plays a huge game through VR. This was set in the distant future, and the game became a - metaphor maybe - for real life in that time. It was an extremely involved read - lots of twists and turns [hmm, had to stop to go look it up: Burning Bright by Melissa Scott.]

Been years since I read it, and it's not available on kindle - but what little I remember of it was not only absorbing as a read, the implications were frightening....

And that's pretty much how I feel about VR. I don't want it, and I'm afraid I'll be playing Skyrim forever - because I'd bet the reason beth is dragging its feet on TESVI is because they want to release it as VR.... Not going there....
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Rick
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If a game was as engrossing and detailed as Skyrim, but in VR...I'd be in it....well maybe.

The issue for me is that its all about first person immersion. That is not an environment The Contessa can exist in....it IS possible to concieve of third person VR...where you seem to be alongside an actual different person like a disembodied spirit.

You watch and control from alongside....like we do in third person now. However, that is not currently how game devs see it....for them its all about putting YOU in the suit of armour and surrounding you with 3D enemies.

However, the 3D game world with things moving behind you as you pass them by...would be amazing to explore.

Thinking more about 3D third person control....yes....perfectly possible. It would be like the way we watch a movie character doing things....we forget we are inside the directors camera and its like being with the protagonist without being inside the protagonist. Walking through a forest with Adella beside me or maybe just following her a few steps behind...with trees behind us and wolves rushing in from the sides...they would not see me....I wouod be invisible even to myself...but my eyes would be there...in the action.

Yes....I like this

Edit...current VR is obsessed with now finding ways to make your body moves control the char body moves....so you have static running frames in your room that you stand in and run jump etc...the mechanics translate that into the computer world. With a third person VR...all that becomes obsolete! The controller and a comfy chair is still all you need...so it could be a way forward.
Edited by Rick, Dec 30 2016, 11:08 AM.
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