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Adella's Way; A survivalist trial for masochists...chuckles
Topic Started: Mar 14 2017, 09:20 AM (6,909 Views)
Rick
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As posted in Beth....

Not everyone's cup of tea......so if you don't go with challenging survivalist gaming that's fine....but please don't explain why you aren't interested! However you play enjoy your day :)

But for anyone who is up for it......this is Contessa Adella's survivalist trial...
Current entrants...
Adella
Sah
Poncho
After Dark
Trav



Adella's Way......Trial conditions and formal start The trial formally begins Wed 22nd March 2017

The trial is an open invite to anyone who wants test their mettle, but the rules have been carefully constructed and variations are inadmissable. To enter at anytime just post your name and desire to join in. You may include character name, race and gender or play as 'yourself'. Role Play is fine, but not essential.

The Trial Rules

1. Legendary difficulty only
Spoiler: click to toggle

2. Dead is Dead
Spoiler: click to toggle

3. Zero starting skills...(requires a mod to do this)
Spoiler: click to toggle

4. No potions or ingestibles that aid healing or health (includes soups)
Spoiler: click to toggle

5. No followers (Except as given for specific quests)
Spoiler: click to toggle

6....WD

7. No Magicka use (Except Tolfdir's unavoidable Ward lesson and the exclusive use of a fire and frost spell just to align the 'focusing crystal' at the end of Mzulft.)
Spoiler: click to toggle

8. No unique enchanted artefacts.....
Spoiler: click to toggle


9. No magical staff or scroll usage.
Spoiler: click to toggle

10. No map based fast travel....carriages and boats are ok
Spoiler: click to toggle

11. No mods or exploits that make the trial easier.....it's about testing your mettle :)
Spoiler: click to toggle


Allowances:

All three crafting skills may be employed
Non unique enchanted items are permissable...(rings of health, daggers of burning, armour of the squire etc)
Any skills may be used and perked.....providing the conditions above are met.
Standing Stones....employ and swap around as desired.


Special extras to note...
Paid Training is disallowed...you have to practice skills to raise them.
No use of the "Quick Reflexes" perk in the block skill tree.
Level ups are to be taken as soon as practicable...may be taken during combat if it occurs at that time...or as soon as possible afterwards.
No making skills Legendary at skill 100.



Aspiration:
To complete all eight major quest lines (Destinies) with a single likeness (char)....no deaths
(Or get as far as you possibly can!) Also, don't forget to post updates to keep in touch.

And finally...
It just remains for Contessa Adella and I to wish the very best of luck to all those intrepid adventurers that join us in this...perhaps the ultimate test of survival in Skyrim.

Lets go!

Addendum:
A more detail rule set appears in Beth.new under the Adella's Way thread, but essentially the above gives the useable outline.
Edited by Rick, Aug 30 2017, 06:08 PM.
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Poncho
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I'm thinking i'll make a pass at playing Contessa-style, if you'll indulge a few questions?

"No potions that boost healing or health"

Should one assume this to be solely potions, or does it include armour enchantments?
Also, couple of points of minor clarification...just fortify health regen or stamina regen too?
Thinking of later game enchants I might put on a set of armour and rapid regen of stamina would help greatly with power attacks.
And when you say boost health, you mean the fortify health effect, not the restore health effect, correct?

"No Magicka use"

Assuming one is able to afford it, is it acceptable to pay for training through a magical school in order to obtain specific perks? For example the Alteration magic resist/absorb perks and the elemental enhancement perks in destruction? These add to survivability and enchantment power respectively.
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Areial
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I believe but Rick can correct me if I mis-remember.. that they do use "health Enchantments", but not "health" potions or spells... The second I can't answer at all.
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Kane
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I think alteration should be a core component for a warrior. The ability to garner more resistance to magic is huge, IMO.
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Poncho
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Thanks Areial, I thought they might but wanted to be sure :)
Reading the post on Beth forums does reinforce the no health potions period approach, not just no fortify health/fortify health regen which is something I was a little grey on too :)
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Rick
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Hey guys,
Glad you like it...or at least read it :)

I have had to make a small change.....swapped out "No Daedric artefacts" for the more stringent "No named artefacts" cos not all OP gear is Daedric....but I think its always specifically named. (Eg. Azhidal's boots, spellbreaker, Yngol's helm etc) Regular enchanted apparal and weapons are fine....(boots of brawn, dagger of burning, ring of health etc)

Answering questions....

Poncho,
Take it literally. If its a potion, and it increases, restores or speeds up health...then is a No.
TBH...it should include soups too...since they are effectively food potions.

The reason behind this is....these are all ways of getting instant salvation....simply getting out of trouble too easily. Find youself getting killed?...no problem just drink ten soups and fifteen potions as you beat your foe into the ground...nah! You have to get quick, smart and tactical to survive this...no easy solutions ;)

Stamina....no problem...because lots or little stamina is not actually 'Life' you can survive zero stamina....so its not a vital requirement...faster stamina regen..fine. Also enchantments that boost health or stamina in any way are fine too....why? Because the effect is relatively slight.....if a foe is about to take your last...a ring of health is unlikely to save you at that point. Banning such enchantments is way too fussy, unnecessary, and probably churlish.

Alteration training...yes....again take the rules literally....Alteration 'training' is not spell casting...if you can pay to train up Alteration, or any school (and use the five books) that's fine.....and you should be able to get at least a couple of perk points of magic resistance from there.

Also...standing stones....yep no issue....its all passive aid and not that much of it....not enough to save your bacon if you are in over your head!

And....that's really what this trial is all about. There's no need to close down every minor player aid.....as long as the big 'Easy outs', 'life savers' and 'danger avoidance' mechanisms are switched out. Its designed to test one's grit directly...no help.....its all down to you, your wits and your ability to think on your feet.

So then......why is sneaking not banned huh? Well I did think about it....but in the end its not necessary. See, you can sneak past lots of things....but items you have to have and foes you must defeat all require 'getting in there' and facing the music....plus sneak failure if you are not well prepared in other ways, leads to an early grave.....so you can't just be only a good sneak!

I have tried to make this trial genuinely tough without being unfair to the player and leave enough build options open to give a little variation in approach....2h, 1h, archer, shouts, poisons, stealth, passive buffs, speed and tactics.

What you won't get.....is an easy ride :)
Edited by Rick, Mar 16 2017, 08:10 AM.
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Poncho
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Thanks for the clear up Rick :)

Was thinking it would be much simpler if one were able to use Illusion spells, since those are affected by target's level, not damage scaling....but that really would take out a lot of challenge.

Will be interesting to see how far I can go though....Alchemy and smithing can be pushed up relatively quick and easy, especially once one has hearthfire property with the greenhouse wing (poisons and arrows)....enchanting is going to be the slow craft since it relies on gathering soul gems (which can be dangerous and/or expensive) and then harvesting the required souls. There are a few ways into Blackreach...once one is capable of withstanding the falmer, there are the soul gem geodes if i'm remembering right (been a while since I went down there)

Thinking on leaving all skill books alone until I can blast through Raven Rock Mine and best it's resident. The Black Book there will grant a permanent buff to get 2 skill points from every skill book instead of 1. That gives 10 skill points per skill without usage....get that last little bit on the unused magic skills :)
A pity the named reward at the end would have to sit in a chest though, as it is a unique artifact.
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Rick
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Great strategy Poncho

Only one small flaw there....we can't use Black Books....since they are really named artifacts (They each have unique names) rather than actually "readable" books.....i.e. Daedric power items....For example, the "Oghma Infinium" book falls into the same category....hmmm....by saying no "named" items I was trying to sweep up Daedric and Dwemmer artefacts plus other uniques. Maybe a clearer re-wording is needed.

Lots of enchanted goodies abound on Solsteim of course....but again...no unique items...so Bloodskaal Blade for example is out.
Rare apparals like a necklace of waterbreathing or poison immunity are not unique...rare yes...but you can get two or more in one game.

Edit....ok...."No enchanted unique artefacts" Hows that. And believe me I was tempted to go for the books too....but the buffs are a Daedric boon and thus outside the spirit of the trial.

Thanks for showing me the flaw...hopefully its all correct now.

Yes....I build the Greenhouse too.....small tip..you know Hanging Moss and Blue Mtn Flower make expensive poisons right.....well go to the Hall of the Dead in Solitude....check the walls above eye level ;)

Oh....so what happens if you go somewhere like Raven Rock mine....get to the point of no return and only then find you need to use the unique artefact to open the exit? Well...sensibly...of course you can use it for its intended quest function to make your escape....similarly using Red Eagles sword as the key to open his chamber is fine....just don't go using it to slay foes. There are not many enchanted uniques that have to be used to fulfill a special quest function....most are just buffs and boons.

So we have Sah, you and me signed up. You'll love the challenge....its tantalisingly doable....but easy to fail. Remember its not a race.....its about how far you can go, but above level 50'ish fully smithed up...it should get much easier....if you can get there ;)

Edit 2 Oooh.....tip....."Cheat Room" has a button to set all skills to Zero at the beginning......you can use it once Ralof cuts your binds (yes its a 0 point spell cast of sorts....but really just a switch to get in the room and it doesn't break the no magicka 'use' rule (0 points).....on console its probably your only way to get skills set to zero).
Edited by Rick, Mar 16 2017, 12:20 PM.
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Poncho
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I already found a mod to set skills to 0 (except racial bonuses, but being as I almost always play breton the only bonus I get there is 5 into speech.

As far as Black Books I had viewed the buffs given as being similar to standing stones...my mistake :) (in truth it took me a couple of minutes to remember that the Oghma Infinium is a daedric artefact too)
Still, I'll get to the point I need eventually....just means a lot of chopped wood/mined ore and much much pennies spent lol
Doing a fresh install from my clean backup....seems one or two mods may have left a little holdover in the files that isn't going on uninstall. Weapon range fix being the first that jumps to mind...and something that makes me able to survive a couple of hits with two handers in light armour at level 1....didn't seem quite right to me so needs clearing off
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Rick
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Yeah...I use the "Realistic Melee Range" mod.....its means you have to get 20% closer to land a hit....but its the same for npcs also....

I also have a problem with unwanted behavoir....the npcs have a super efficient detection range now. Meaning I can't mine or do alchemy or use a chair while being 'detected' by a npc thats miles away and outside....while I am inside.....totally ridiculous. I can't work out the culprit...but it may be the long since deleted "Realistic AI Detection" or legacy script thereof....multiple hard re-sets of the XB1 have had no effect!

Anyways....you will find you can't improve iron weapons until smithing reaches 14....but once your skills begin climbing its no different to a normal start...except...well.....clearly your skills will always be lagging a bit behind where they would have been with a vanilla start....making life harder....but then, thats the point here ;)

You CAN skill spam to some degree....there's no penalty except the time it takes. For coin....I suggest selling potions to alchemists and Khajiit whenever possible (alchemists know a trustworthy potion...and Khajiit just don't care anyway), plus make enchanted daggers in batches for selling.....and raising your enchanting skill.
Just buy up all the petty and lesser soul gems from traders....or brave a Dwemmer ruin to get them. Fill gems from wolves and mudcrabs.
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Rick
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Ok, we are going to start this trial formally on Wed 22nd.

But as I said its not a race and there are no time restrictions of any sort.....its how far you can get rather than how quickly you get there.

Having said that....progress reports are encouraged since we want a cohesive feel and there may be external interest also.

Since it looks like Beth will be switching to Beth.net we will be forced to change location for reporting purposes. I'm easy, but Sah and Poncho may have preferences. We have a month or so to iron that out.....
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Serethil
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"It's not how fast you go, it's how well you go fast."
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Kane
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My first day on the job in my current field, the old man I was working with told me similar advice.

"Slow is fast, and fast is slow." To this day, I try to take my time and do it right from the get go.
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Rick
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Ah....so you've never been a ladder climber in a demanding American corporation.

Time is money and you better get it right.....or Johnson will get the executive corner office and you'll be the copy boy before the week is out.

Or is that only a NY thing??? ;)
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glargg
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NY is a hell of a lot more than just Wall Street. :)
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After Dark
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The only "Cheat Room" i've found on Nexus is this one, but i guess i can use the console commands to set the skills to 0 instead (right before i create the hard save with Ulfric).
Probably i'll start next week or this weekend, depending on available time.
It's hard to resist such a challenge :D

Probably i'm gonna roll a female orc.

Tell me if there's any mod i have to take out of my list:

Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by After Dark, Mar 21 2017, 03:14 PM.
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neildarkstar
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I remember a summer I spent working as a powder monkey's assistant. The first day, he said "I don't care how much time you take to do your job, just get it right or you'll never live long enough to do it again."

Two days later, he says "What the hell is taking so long wiring those caps? Get a move on, we don't have all week!" :)

(What was taking so long was the fact that he'd mixed the caps in one box and they had to be sorted right. Blasting caps are set to detonate at different times to change the direction of the blast as a whole, allowing you to shape the charge and plan the result. We were using four different delay times on that job, and planting nine cases of 85% nitro dynamite...)
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Rick
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Afterdark,
Welcome to Adella's trials.
The finalised rules are over on Beth at post 26 of the thread.....for now. I could copy the list here too....Edit....done at post #1

Your mods look fine...tho I'm not sure about the soul gems one....I don't think its an issue. Minor mod advantages are of no consequence...but see the rules for details.

There are no points or times for this....go at your pace and get as far as you can....and don't get killed :)

Yeah, just use pc console to set all the starting skills to zero. An Orc is as good a build as any for this....but do get well acquainted with the trial conditions...it will be tough and is meant to be...if you die, you can restart from the beginning level 1....no penalty. We will do skills stats screens updates to show each other how well we are doing and as always a little video if possible, is entertaining.
Edited by Rick, Mar 21 2017, 11:54 PM.
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glargg
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I'd say the only "advantage" mods on After Dark's list would be Run For Your Lives and When Vampires Attack, and then only if one is in the habit of fast-traveling into towns. Basically all those mods do is to allow non-combatant-type townspeople to run for cover during random attacks, rather than fighting and dying.

They mainly serve to keep merchants and quest-givers alive.

I've been using those two mods in our regular competitions for quite a while, having cleared them with Richard, but I don't fast-travel and I don't enter settlements after dark anyway.
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Rick
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Thanks glargg, like Adella's Immersive Citizens...and yes, the advantages in a trial of this nature are too minor to worry about.
Thanks for looking out :)
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