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Nekkid Nord ... Round VII; Poll
Topic Started: Apr 10 2017, 01:02 PM (3,376 Views)
glargg
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Jarl
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I would love to see how you get Spellbreaker, without armor, without ranged attack, without sneak, and using only found items, Neil. :)

I just went through that dungeon the day before yesterday, with a heavily armored archer/warrior using stealth and enchanted gear, and it was still a challenge. You can't defeat Orchendor using magic, since he's immune, and you would have no other ranged attack to deal with his teleporting trick. So you'd have to try to chase him around with a two-hander while he's blasting you. Not to mention that, before you get to him, you have to deal with dozens of his followers, and a lot of automatons, including a Steam Centurion, that you won't be able to sneak past.
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Areial
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Et'Ada
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It's been awhile since I did that dungeon. .. paralyze poison? Or is he immune to that also?... invisibility potion...

I seriously would have preferred no crafting and the 2 more skills...
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neildarkstar
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Uhmm... Sah taught me not to bother chasing Orchendor around, but to let him chase me to a place where he can't teleport...

I think perhaps you will get your wish and I will at some point show you that, eh? :)
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glargg
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Jarl
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Poisons can work on Orchendor, but you'd have to get close to him to apply it. And I think he can still teleport while paralyzed. He's pretty tough.

But even worse is the whole gauntlet of followers and automatons that you have to get past. Invisibility might help, but no sneaking will make that hard.

I agree with you, Areial. I think the crafting kind of defeats the whole point of this.

And I'm starting to see what Neil meant, now that I've run a test character through Embershard. It's pretty ho-hum when there's no character motivation. Like, why is Rhoda there? What's the point? And what's a "point" to Rhoda?
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Areial
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Et'Ada
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Yeah... it looses the complete challenge of it with crafting. .. just clearning dungeons has little point, unless you are one of the people who are always out to win...regardless if it's tedious or not.

I have somethings to suggest, but I want to wait til I get home and can make sure I can see everything I'm typing, which I can't on my phone past a sentence or two. .. sooooo give me a few hrs... and I'll have something up.
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neildarkstar
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Honestly, I don't believe it's the crafting that causes the loss of interest... I mean, it doesn't make that much difference how much damage a weapon does between "superior" and uncrafted. What causes the lack of interest is the lack of motivation because of the lack of meaningful reward for adventuring.

We always know that bandit weapons are crap, right? So is their armor, and it takes a hell of a lot of either one to make any real coin. The thing is though, that you never know when you'll open that chest or loot that body that has a true wonderment hidden inside... A bow of soul trapping, or a dagger of embers even. You can then disenchant that item and make useful items of your own... but not in this competition.

If you find that dagger of embers, you can't disenchant it, you use it at all, and you can't sell it. Same for the bow of soul trapping. So you get Ironhand gauntlets at White Watch... Big deal, what are you going to do with them? Myself, I tried to throw them off the mountainside. I'm not very good at throwing apparently.

When you can make some coin fro your work, every fight is like Christmas morning. What's it gotses in its box, I wonders, I does... and there is magic in the anticipation. This setup was made for Jehovah's Witnesses... Like, there is no damned Christmas, and you're going to hell if you try to celebrate it.

I know, it seems to be a minor thing, and everybody's no doubt tired of my whining about it, but the fact is that it's not so minor when you're looking at 40 hours of relative boredom. I can't force myself to enjoy something that is so... unenjoyable, eh? :)

...and as long as I'm miserable, I'm going to share that with everybody I can. :D
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Areial
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Et'Ada
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Neil.. I feel ya.. and What was voted on, is way off my intent. A simple.. fun.. hard, skill round.

1) No Armor ( except shields)
2) Found items only ( except armor)
3) Most Dungeons cleared.
4) every one on the same difficulty "Vanilla".. so no one can say someone else's game is "easier".."harder".. or whatever.
5) No buying or Selling ( including paid training)

What this meant to me, is that you use what you find.. anything that you find.. you find a Axe of burning.. use it.... it runs out and you found a filled soul gem.. <shrug> fill it. The Use of Crafting.. but not Creating.. I know it's a fine line.. but.. it's less limiting.

Also, it isn't meant to be a walk in the park.. Sure at lower level's it might be.. is.. til one start's meeting those higher level bandit's.. Falmer.. etc.. specially if one uses the limited crafting too much..


Now.. I was thinking this morning.. and argued with myself most of the day.. cause I hate being bitchy in anyway.. and yet.. I plan on it. and here it goes...

I would like to vote again next Friday after everyone does a practice run
1) this round as voted
or
2) True Nekkid Nord ( yes those guidelines above)

BUT this time.. I want to know who's voting.. how and IF they intend to play....cause so far.. 5 of the 10 people voting are participating in a chat.. the rest.. not even one comment.. Which I never said one needed to do...but..dang it all people.

Edit: if I'm over stepping.. just let me know :)
Edited by Areial, Apr 15 2017, 08:29 PM.
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Serethil
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Et'Ada
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Eh, Areial - I think you're right. I'm not competing, so basically I'm just posting an opinion. And for this round even if I did compete sometimes - I wouldn't. It would never have sounded any kind of fun to me.

Now.... I don't at all think you're over-stepping. You're the one basically hosting - and coming up with most of the ideas. You are also maybe the one with the most experience in this sort of competition.

Thing here is - Nekkid Nord is supposed to be fun. Already we've seen a number of people saying the play's not fun. Sometimes - voting isn't the way to get things together for "fun".
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neildarkstar
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I do wonder though... Crafting doesn't matter to me, I really don't use it that much in any case, with the possible exception of enchanting. Oh, I make a few healing potions. and maybe a paralysis potion (which I usually forget to use), I don't think to use restore magick potions most of the time, and I almost never take smithing beyond Orc on one side and Eleven on the other.

But I have to ask... Why no buying and selling? If the rule is no training, no armor, and found weapons only, then just what the hell are you going to buy that would make such a difference in whether the game is challenging or not?

I enjoy being able to sell off a bunch of junk after the battle. I almost never buy anything other than spells... I'm too damned cheap to buy things at vendor prices, eh? :D

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Serethil
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Et'Ada
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Um. I haven't played a vanilla game for - a very long time. So I guess I don't get what the "no buying/selling" thing is?
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glargg
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Jarl
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Yeah, there has to be a motivation for my character. As people have probably noticed, I tend to come up with silly-punny-named oddball characters to fit whatever the theme is. I don't care if the motivation is thin, but there has to be something more than "1 point per dungeon cleared," because that's meaningless to my character.

My test character found a shock-enchanted mace worth a couple hundred gold in Embershard, and just left it there. She risked her life and killed a half-dozen bandits, and the only worthwhile stuff she took out of the mine were something like six tomatoes and four cabbages (for soup), and a few potion ingredients from the barrels. That doesn't even begin to make sense.

To me, the whole thing would work better if it were modified in this way:

1) No Armor ( except shields)
2) Found items only ( except armor)
3) Most Dungeons cleared.
4) every one on the same difficulty "Vanilla"
5) No buying, but selling is allowed (Speech is a "freebie.")
6) 1 point for each dungeon cleared
7) 1 point for each 1000 gold accumulated
8) Pick (and name) your own skills (maximum of 5)

My reasoning is character motivation, and the opportunity for each player to come up with their own best version of a "Nekkid" character.
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neildarkstar
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Sere, it's just what it says. You can't buy anything from a vendor, and you can't sell anything to one. Loot is useless, because you can't do anything with it.

EDIT: We cross-posted glargg... and yeah, I can agree with everything you said and proposed.
Edited by neildarkstar, Apr 15 2017, 09:37 PM.
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Serethil
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Et'Ada
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But.... why can't you buy and sell? I'm lost.
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glargg
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Jarl
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Serethil
Apr 15 2017, 09:50 PM
But.... why can't you buy and sell? I'm lost.
:shrug: It was just part of the rule set above. Buying would allow one to buy spells and weapons, which would defeat the whole premise of the "found items only." But I don't know why selling would be a problem.
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neildarkstar
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Yeah, me too for the most part. I guess it's to keep people from buying OP items...

glargg, we've gotta stop meeting like this... ;)
Edited by neildarkstar, Apr 15 2017, 10:03 PM.
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glargg
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Well, if buying were allowed, with Destruction as a skill, you could go to any court wizard and buy ranged spells, runes, whatever you wanted.
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Serethil
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Et'Ada
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Ach. I'm STILL lost. I never use spells - magic in this game is SO not fun.... Eh, well.... whatever.
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glargg
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Serethil
Apr 15 2017, 10:08 PM
Ach. I'm STILL lost. I never use spells - magic in this game is SO not fun.... Eh, well.... whatever.
Yeah, but nobody just drew six random skills for you to use, and the only ranged attack is Destruction. :)
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Areial
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Et'Ada
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I could see selling, but not buying.. and basically for the reason said.. What's the point of "Found Items only" if one can buy anything one wants...

1) No Armor ( except shields)
2) Found items only ( except armor)
3) Most Dungeons cleared.
4) every one on the same difficulty "Vanilla"
5) No buying, but selling is allowed (Speech is a "freebie.")
6) 1 point for each dungeon cleared
7) 1 point for each 1000 gold accumulated
8) Pick (and name) your own skills (maximum of 5)


I could live with that..


Sere.. the Buying and Selling.. hmmm example.. mine, smelt.. create daggers, enchant daggers.. sell daggers.. with the ingredients you've found.. make potions.. sell potions.. buy all the ingredients at all the vendors.. make more potions to sell. .. buy training.. ..rinse and repeat...

It's then no longer about the players skill in battle, but about their knowledge and skill at crafting.. knowing where to find what.. and "hedging" the game.. not playing it. At Legendary.. a needed grind...DiD anyway.

We "start over".. on the idea behind this.. I'll delete the poll.. and we can just chatter about what we want.. starting with Glarrg's list.. though I think.. the Crafting thing I put in.. should be part of the rules.. Tempering, Filling and Using, but no creating..

If that's what we want to do.. I have no problems at all with that.. I know their's 3 of us unhappy with the voting.. and no one else really saying much..

Let me know and it's a done deal... AND.. start another Thread.. Less confusing that way, I think.

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Lapuaboy
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I will say that in three short trial runs with "Neeps" it was a bummer leaving behind enchanted one handers (that I usually never find at super low levels) or other neat loot. Yeah, I was happy to score a health potion or the veggies, but at higher levels carrots and tomatoes lose a wee bit of the wow factor ;)

Edit: initial post was incubating too long and missed the above relevant posts.

I'm good with starting anew!


Edited by Lapuaboy, Apr 15 2017, 10:42 PM.
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