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R.I.P. neildarkstar. Haven will miss you dearly.
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| Topic Started: May 4 2017, 10:38 AM (450 Views) | |
| Areial | Sep 25 2017, 08:03 PM Post #41 |
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Et'Ada
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I know what your saying.. but to "picture it" is to actually put the rot in the plant's and some kind of dead thing in the meadow.. that of course makes it gloomy, but B is coming before A... |
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| Serethil | Sep 25 2017, 09:17 PM Post #42 |
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Et'Ada
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I.... can't go there, because I never have "bleakness" of mood. I just don't. I've never been depressed (literally - NEVER in my life have I ever been depressed) or gloomy. In fact, my entire life is bounded by the "full glass" thing. Yes - my glass is at least half-full. Mostly it's just.... full. So, while I myself am on that top end of a glass of foamy ale, I do still love my gloomy grey Skyrim - not to mention my gloomy grey winter in UT. Hmmm. Well, I guess that's a dichotomy for you. Sue me? |
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| Areial | Sep 25 2017, 09:19 PM Post #43 |
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Et'Ada
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LoL... na... I understand |
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| Serethil | Sep 25 2017, 09:26 PM Post #44 |
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Et'Ada
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Well, at least someone does. Family.... nope. Not even husband. |
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| neildarkstar | Sep 25 2017, 11:31 PM Post #45 |
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Overlord
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I get it from my mother I suppose... or perhaps my Scot heritage. She was manic depressive, and I'm at least somewhat bipolar. I know it's a bit strange but I can alter my moods at will from top of the mountain to depths of the abyss with little or nothing in between. The plus side of that is that I rarely allow my moods to rule me. The bad side of that is that people have problems trying to figure me out so they know how to respond to me. Wifey had the best handle on that I think. Her usual response to my mood swings was "Oh, shut UP, Neil!" :D I've tried to see myself as a realistic "half glass of whatever" but it's true only in part. Either the glass is so full that it's overflowing, getting your boots all wet, or so dry it will never have anything in it again. Average the two out, and of course the glass is half full, eh? ;) In fact, even my perspective on that changes at a whim and in a moment's notice, so... Hmmm... |
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| Rick | Sep 26 2017, 09:00 AM Post #46 |
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Jarl
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Neil....I'm British.....I specialise in melancholy :D It is often misunderstood for 'depression' or sadness or sullen or worse...morose. But of course it is none of those things...maybe a little sad...often reflective and drinking deep of solemnity. It is why it has its own word. But it is not a bad thing....it is in its own way quite enjoyable. Easier to describe situations which foster it than to actually describe it. Staring out of a window at rain soaking an overgrown garden. A patch of deeply verdant damp moss clinging to a shadowed wall. Walking slowly through the old and overgrown parts of a cemetary. The aroma of the wet leaf strewn humous underfoot in autumnal woods. Dampness and rain are good initiators of the melancholic mood....and in England we have plenty of dampness and rain ;) Wonderful and rich with its own special emotion...I love melancholy. But not always eh! Edited by Rick, Sep 26 2017, 09:05 AM.
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| neildarkstar | Sep 26 2017, 11:18 PM Post #47 |
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Overlord
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Depression and melancholy are kinda like 3rd cousins... related, but nothing alike. Depression leaches the color from the world, and the strangles the smile that was forming on your lips in its infancy... and you're just too damned tired to care.
With depression, the sentence continues: Suddenly, with the sound of dry or rotting wood, your foot and leg drop into the ancient grave adding the sound of breaking bone to the mix. Oddly, you don't seem to care anymore than the dead person whose bones are being broken in that grave does... |
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| Rick | Sep 27 2017, 01:23 PM Post #48 |
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Jarl
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Pretty shallow graves ya got over there neil...our are generally around six feet deep....as in the phrase 'six foot under'. Of course I know...you are evoking a mood. I have never been clinically depressed but I do have one special friend who suffers from it periodically. She describes the heavy mood, the self destructiveness, the worthless self esteem that you just can't talk them out of. It is an affliction and terrible once it takes hold of the mind. It has to run its course then they slowly come around. I will just stick with melancholy....it's not suicidal and doesn't make you feel bad about yourself. :) Edited by Rick, Sep 27 2017, 01:24 PM.
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| neildarkstar | Sep 28 2017, 12:16 AM Post #49 |
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Overlord
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As a former professional gravedigger, allow me to give you a small... bit of education. First, our graves here are technically supposed to be six feet deep as well. However, the determination of where depth ends may well be definde by the point at which one of two things may happen... You either strike water, or you hit bedrock. You can't bury people in graves that are underwater because it will result in contamination of all groundwater in the area, and framer Jones may not like the taste of Uncle Edgar soup in his coffee. Usually what happens is dirt is replaced in the grave to a point where the water is no longer visible, and you hope it doesn't flood out in the near future. The bedrock issue is much more solid (pun intended). You can't really bring in a ripper to tear up bedrock to a cemetery because others are trying to Rest In Peace. You can't blast it with dynamite for the same reason, so the grave is left however deep the bedrock is, assuming you can reasonably cover the casket. Covering the casket presents the third hurdle or challenge I'm going to present you with. Let's say you dig your grave six feet deep just as planned, right? So, in the past a casket or coffin would be lowered directly into the gound, and covered with soil, but... how thick is the casket? Does it have a rounded cover? If the casket is roughly 2.5 feet in depth with a rounded wood cover that rises an additional 6 inches or so, after the casket is covered there is actually only 2.5 to 3 feet of soil covering the coffin. It's NOT six feet down. Then, as time goes by, the soil will settle being packed in by foot traffic, weather, or soft earth just moving into holes that were created when the grave was originally dug. In modern graves, the casket is actually placed inside a concrete liner with a concrete lid, and the whole thing is perhaps only six inches down. Of course, you won't be falling through a concrete grave liner lid. You specified an old cemetery though, and in the past, say 75 years or more back, the depth of graves was commonly left to the gravedigger. the gravedigger was often paid by the mortician, so how deep the gravedigger decided to go just might depend on how much he was being paid, and how difficult the digging itself was. It's not uncommon to find graves from a century ago with top of the coffin (made of simple wood, and probably not even finished wood at that) being within 3 inches of the surface. Nobody realizes that until some poor fool takes a melancholy walk through the older pats of a cemetery... Then that poor fool joins the long departed in the remnants of their coffin, and spends an indeterminate amount of time screaming until help arrives. Now, remember, I am speaking from experience, and while I have never dropped into a coffin personally, I have indeed ran to assist said poor fool who did... Honestly, I doubt that you will find things much different in the UK as far as graves from a hundred years or more are concerned. Tombs and mausoleums are of course a different matter, and present all kinds of their own weirdness... like having to have drains installed and periodically cleaned... :D |
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| Areial | Sep 28 2017, 12:29 AM Post #50 |
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Et'Ada
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Not to mention that in places like Louisiana the groundwater is.. almost at ground level. All grave's in S LA are above ground. Spoiler: click to toggle Another thing... old coffin's.. wood.. wood rot's, soft tissue of the body rot's.. step on the ground of an old grave and you soon find out that the dirt was held up by memory alone.. |
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| Serethil | Sep 28 2017, 09:35 AM Post #51 |
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Et'Ada
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And then there's Switzerland - where husband's ancestors' plot is about 20x20 feet, and ALL his ancestors are in there - as someone died, he or she was placed into the coffin, and the coffin was interred on the same spot as one that was really disintegrated. They apparently don't do it that way today, but up through the 17th century they did. Just not much space for graveyards.... |
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| Areial | Sep 28 2017, 09:44 AM Post #52 |
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Et'Ada
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yeah <shudder> just scatter my ashes out to sea! |
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| Rick | Sep 29 2017, 01:14 PM Post #53 |
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Jarl
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Well I can't speak for your graves over the pond Neil, but I can tell you over here active cemetaries are simply not built three feet above solid bedrock and nor have I seen any where the groundwaters rise anywhere near the surface. I suspect that "places of rest" which do have to be in such locations are made to be cremations only. Nowadays our graves are hoed out by mini digger. A grave digger I once asked about the old six feet under phrase back in my college days told me that they didn't measure it precisely but a coffin had anywhere from five to six feet of soil over it. He was in a grave hole at the time levelling the bottom and had a ladder to climb out. My best mate was put in a hole with a good five feet of depth above his box. Graves are not filled flush, but left with thick mound of soil on top to allow for some settling of the top few feet. Plus our caskets are never anywhere near three feet in thickness most are just a few inches deeper than the reposed body therin, two feet tops. Also......ha! When walking around a melancholy old cemetary....one doesn't generally go stompin' and a stumblin' on graves....there are paths, and these sites are in any case generally a side area adjacent or at the back of, a modern cemetary, just not well kept. Mausoleums are rare outside of cities...only the well heeled could afford such a luxury edifice. I guess our cultural differences extend beyond death eh! |
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| neildarkstar | Sep 29 2017, 09:55 PM Post #54 |
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Overlord
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I remember standing in a few graves, never did have a ladder to use to climb out (though that would have been handy). If I stood on tip-toe, I could see out over the sides of the grave. Since I'm six feet tall, that meant the bottom of the grave was six feet down. Getting out of a grave actually required a bit of athleticism... move to a corner where the bottom of the grave was just slightly less deep, do a standing jump and use the angled corner to do a sort of "pull-up". Of course one could always use a shovel as a pull-up bar, but I never did. Heh, the other guys (all of whom were 30 years younger than me) used to laugh at this old man jumping out of the grave, and I told them "That my boys is how an old dead guy gets out of the grave, eh?" :) We too used a backhoe or a Bobcat to dig and fill in the graves (though shovel work was used to "clean" the sides. A Bobcat fit nicely between the rows of graves. While of course there are exceptions to every rule, we have paved lanes that meander through our cemeteries, but there are no paths to follow once you leave the paved portion of road. In fact, gravediggers in modern graveyards are actually a combination of gravedigger, landscaper, gardener, and groundskeeper whose job it is to make certain there are no paths worn in the grass... ;) EDIT: Here is a link to some pics of the cemetary I worked at. Edited by neildarkstar, Sep 29 2017, 10:15 PM.
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| Serethil | Sep 29 2017, 10:17 PM Post #55 |
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Et'Ada
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Here, we have a graveyard with graves dating back to 1863. It's not huge - probably about five acres all told. There are maybe a couple hundred graves there. The latest ones are from this year - two very good friends (both cancer victims) and three people we didn't know but who for whatever reason decided to have their remains planted here. Many people who stayed here summers a century ago actually lived in other towns in this county, and were buried there rather than here. It's an interesting little graveyard - no fancy headstones, but it's very well-kept. The town doesn't have to keep it tidy - the families do so over Memorial Day weekend. I still.... don't really think bodies belong in the ground - or at least as a qualifier - they don't belong in the ground in lead-lined caskets. If bodies are put in the ground in wood, or even just wrapped in cloth - that works, because it's all just going to go back to component parts eventually. But massive coffins.... last forever. Lynn - the second friend who died of cancer this year - couldn't go the cremation route (because she truly believed the doctrine which said if you have no body you can never go forward to godhood); she chose a wood casket and minimal "preservation". I honor her for that choice, in the middle of all the horrible stuff she and her family were dealing with. Ginger - well, she went to Oregon, lived with her sister until her cancer got beyond bearing, and then had a doctor send her on to her own afterlife belief. She was cremated there, and her husband interred her ashes in our cemetery - Lee (the "town grave-manager") dug a "real grave", and we all watched Gary spread her ashes over the ground. Then we added wildflowers from the mountain (her favorites) and fur from her dogs and cats. We picked up dirt from the ground, and added it to the grave, and then we went to their house and had a wake. Death-ceremonies are.... difficult.... for some. Probably the "common garden-variety" funeral is easier for most folks. I tend to have - unusual friends .... which can make for some very different ceremonial memories. |
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| neildarkstar | Sep 29 2017, 10:39 PM Post #56 |
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Overlord
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Gravediggers almost never watch the ceremonies... gives the attendees the feeling that he just wants them to get done with it so he can finish his end of things and go home. It'd be kinda like having a vulture watch the proceedings from a nearby limb... :D |
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| Serethil | Sep 29 2017, 10:48 PM Post #57 |
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Et'Ada
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Heh. Yep. Two vultures are roosting on the limbs of a dead tree in the desert. They sit there a while, and then - they sit there a while longer. Finally one says "Damn it! Hard to believe nothing died here in the last week." Other one says "Well, fuck it. I'ma go out and kill something." |
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| Turija | Oct 5 2017, 12:11 PM Post #58 |
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Thane
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Reminds me of Tom T. Hall's classic Ballad of Forty Bucks. Regarding Morrowind graphics and animations, I have to be in the right mood to play Morrowind, but when I get in that mood, the old graphics and animations don't bother me. It's part of the overall atmosphere of playing an old text based game, and it reminds me of how far graphics have come since I played video games as a kid back in the 70s and early 80s. I used to play with MGSO, and I still have that installation on my PC. I spent too much work fixing all the bugs in MGSO to ever get rid of that installation. But I have a separate installation with just MGE XE and Peterbitt's Morrowind Watercolor. Once they get a full release of Open MW I expect we will see some new animations for Morrowind. Based on discussions I have had with Peterbitt, it sounds like modern animations are not really feasible on Morrowind's old engine but Open MW should fix this. I'd like to see some dodge/glancing blow animations that stop the weapons from passing right through and instead make them glance off armor or miss slightly because the NPC twisted their body to avoid being hit. Not possible in vanilla Morrowind but maybe with Open MW it will be possible to truly modernize Morrowind. |
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