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R.I.P. neildarkstar. Haven will miss you dearly.
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Round VIII chatter ( Dwemer Scholar ); DiD round talk..
Topic Started: May 7 2017, 06:33 PM (808 Views)
Kane
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neildarkstar
May 17 2017, 01:16 PM
Kane
May 17 2017, 12:35 PM
It's long been a stop for me as soon as I can. No Falmer, so you only have to deal with the automatons. A decent haul for dwemer metal, and the Ancient Knowledge reward.
I've done that quest a few times, and never noticed that I got anything out of the deal. 'Course, I never wear Dwemer Armor, and rarely do much crafting beyond the steel perk...
:)
Funny thing is; that armor boost is bugged if you don't use the unofficial patch. In vanilla, the reward affects all armor except Dwarven.
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Brambleberry
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With regards to the LAL starts. Perhaps we can throw out restrictions and simply have each person that uses LAL state which one they used. Then give the ol' plus/minus to the difficulty meter. That way the full number of choices are available for those that want to role play a certain way during the competition. Whadda all y'all think?
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glargg
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On the LAL starts, I think that some starts give a significant advantage, while others clearly don't.

The house starts and quest faction starts are very advantageous, because you bypass a lot of activity that would lead to skill-building (and thus higher level / greater difficulty.)

The camping start, left for dead, and the minor faction starts (bandit, vampire, etc.) provide negligible advantage (even disadvantage.)

I think "advantage starts" should have to be balanced against disadvantages, like any other advantage mod. "Left for Dead," Bandit, and Forsworn (Bretons) starts should be counted as disadvantage mods, because of danger and/or bounties.

The Blackreach start (in Sinderion's lab) should be banned from this competition, because it provides you with a Blackreach "key." (Ironically, that's where the original Nokandu started.)
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neildarkstar
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I don't use those starts currently, so I really don't care. the truth is that I don't actually care how easy or hard somebody else's game is, except... when they've got a bunch of mods make life easy, I want to know so I can laugh at them when they stick out their chest and tell me how good of a player they are cuz they survived.

In RL I also enjoy laughing at people in the 75,000 air conditioned Winnebago when they tell me they "roughed it" for the weekend... :)

BTW, as long as we're talking mods, I'm wanting to add SkyTest to my load order, but I'm uncertain whether it's an advantage, disadvantage or null. Currently, I neither advantage nor disadvantage mods loaded.

For the uninitiated, SkyTest alters animal AI... Some animals don't attack that would in vanilla (a seeming advantage) but tend to attack in large packs (definitely a disadvantage) or attack if they have young present (mammoth's protecting their young tend to be... unpleasant).

If y'all decide SkyTest is an advantage, I have no idea what mod to add to make it even, so help me out here, 'kay?
Edited by neildarkstar, May 17 2017, 01:49 PM.
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Areial
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Et'Ada
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That would actually work for me.. I'd rather an Inn start...

I think I may use Az this round..I'm more or less thinking Bard/ Rogue... The more I try out a spellsword, the more I really like a more"free" use what's around style.. Plus.. the mod I have been waiting on come's out the 27th.. sooo I'd rather something closer to a RP here.. so that I am not tempted to download and start playing soon as it comes out!!

Edit: Glargg the Blackreach start must be in an update I don't have...cause, I don't have it.. but yeah, that would have to be banned form this round...

And yeah... along with style ( mage, spellsword etc) major skills....how one start's would have to be listed.
Edited by Areial, May 17 2017, 01:50 PM.
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Areial
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Neil that sound's like a "null" as it give's advantages and dis-advantages.. to me anyway.. I'd have to read the whole thing.. but from that short description.. Null...
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Brambleberry
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SkyTest - agree with the Null designation and leaning toward disadvantage. There are many a times where the packs seem to be much more prolific and never in the same place twice, so SURPRISE nippers gnashing their teeth at yer heels! ;)
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neildarkstar
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Here's a visual example of SkyTest that takes place on exit from the cave after the Helgen tutorial:



Edited by neildarkstar, May 17 2017, 02:06 PM.
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glargg
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Areial
May 17 2017, 01:47 PM


Edit: Glargg the Blackreach start must be in an update I don't have...cause, I don't have it.. but yeah, that would have to be banned form this round...

And yeah... along with style ( mage, spellsword etc) major skills....how one start's would have to be listed.
The Blackreach start has been in LAL for a long time.

It's the "Necromancer in a secret location."

It puts you in Sinderion's lab, with the dwemer sphere "guard" just outside the door. There are ingredients on the alchemy table to make potions of invisibility, and I think a pair of muffle boots. And there's a Blackreach "key" there.
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Areial
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glargg
May 17 2017, 02:16 PM
Areial
May 17 2017, 01:47 PM


Edit: Glargg the Blackreach start must be in an update I don't have...cause, I don't have it.. but yeah, that would have to be banned form this round...

And yeah... along with style ( mage, spellsword etc) major skills....how one start's would have to be listed.
The Blackreach start has been in LAL for a long time.

It's the "Necromancer in a secret location."

It puts you in Sinderion's lab, with the dwemer sphere "guard" just outside the door. There are ingredients on the alchemy table to make potions of invisibility, and I think a pair of muffle boots. And there's a Blackreach "key" there.
Oh, well that explain's it, I've never done the Necromancer start!

Neil... look's like Bram may have that one.. a Null bordering on dis-advantage.. and depending on the rest of your mods, might be an out and out dis-advntage.
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Rick
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Neil's Skytest Vid....
Well, showcasing your mod wolf pack looks very nice neil ! ;)

Answering the question however is trickier.
Here's the thing. Wolves are lethal even in pairs, and too persistant to outrun.....so on the one hand surviving your mod looks to be pretty tough.

However, on the other hand....when you used the terrain to your advantage the tables turn in your favour.
In my early game such tactics are absolutely essential for survival (Legendary, with zero armour and zero healing up....means the two...sometimes three...wolves on the bends at the top of the falls would be game stoppers.)

Wading into a pack is a certain death...BUT....once you know what you are doing and are prepared to get mobile....those wolves then just represent extra skill ups and more pelts for armour making :)

So....to the question.....is the mod an advantage over vanilla.....delt with correctly (and with a tad of luck) yes....I believe it is. Handled badly...no....you're dead!
Edited by Rick, May 17 2017, 02:33 PM.
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Lapuaboy
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I now know that I am not going to run a Destro and Conjur mage for this. I was trying to duplicate a high level build that I really enjoy..so I was trying to cram 70 levels of goodness into this time sensitive build. Total Charlie Foxtrot.

My stealth archer is my probable go to, with some tweaking. I switched from my kitty cat to Breton for the mag res. I'm a craft and build-aholic but with this one I think I can keep it somewhat sane ;) Nice and simple to get going and plenty of "upgrade" options down the road.

I may test a 2 hand or dual wielder, but I would still want a ranged attack, and then the extra "must haves" start in. We'll see.
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Areial
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Rick..not saying your wrong.. in your context your correct.. but when I look at, IF a mod is an advantage or dis-advantage,

I look at it from a "default" difficulty.. which mean's Adept. I look at it from all play styles...mage, rogue, 2h, S & W, unarmed... ..and all skill levels.. from the 1st time Skyrim player who's following a mod list.. to the skilled and experienced player.
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Brambleberry
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Areial, I had SkyTest on SLE, but I'm exclusively playing SSE so no SkyTest. Just recollecting my experience from the "old days". ;)
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neildarkstar
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See, that's the thing... SkyTest is now available for SSE... and tht's where I'm putting it.

EDIT: Here's a link.
Edited by neildarkstar, May 17 2017, 03:07 PM.
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Rick
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Trace,
Well....I was looking at it from the context provided by neil......his benchmark for his question...since other variables would vastly change the outcome (Neil set the score with light armour, 2h and on Master).

On Adept for example that big hammer would easily mulch those wolves whilst the player char would suffer little from a bite. So I would say BIG advantage mod since your romping away with lots of pelts and skill ups for little risk. Neil gave us Master....which changes the outcomes to a much more dangerous scenario if not handled well....as I elucidated. On Legendary you would really have to watch your back since bites would drop your health way faster than you could magic it back up and you only have a handful of minor potions.

So, I judged based on what neil wanted to be looked at, with the scenario variables he wanted considered. Had he given us Apprentice level, I would have looked upon it differently :)
Edited by Rick, May 17 2017, 03:04 PM.
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neildarkstar
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Rick
May 17 2017, 03:03 PM
Trace,
Well....I was looking at it from the context provided by neil......his benchmark for his question...since other variables would vastly change the outcome (Neil set the score with light armour, 2h and on Master).

On Adept for example that big hammer would easily mulch those wolves whilst the player char would suffer little from a bite. So I would say BIG advantage mod since your romping away with lots of pelts and skill ups for little risk. Neil gave us Master....which changes the outcomes to a much more dangerous scenario if not handled well....as I elucidated. On Legendary you would really have to watch your back since bites would drop your health way faster than you could magic it back up and you only have a handful of minor potions.

So, I judged based on what neil wanted to be looked at, with the scenario variables he wanted considered. Had he given us Apprentice level, I would have looked upon it differently :)
I gave you that one to look at because it's the only one I have handy. I wonder though, would you say the same about a pack of mammoths accompanied by every giant in sight attacking because they have young?

How about cave bear with young?

Oh, and then there are deer and elk who attack if young are present as well...

As far as it goes, almost anything in Skyrim depends on player's ability to handle it, eh? Skeever and mudcrabs can be deadly as well if handled poorly. Yeah, remember that video I posted with the leaping mudcrab that took out my PC with one hit? That was Skytest working too...

Also I see I didn't mention that SkyTest ups animal stats... more health, more damage. So, a SkyTest wolf on Adept Is going to be far harder to kill and do a lot more damage than a vanilla wolf on Adept. On Legendary? Good luck with that, eh? :)
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glargg
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Skytest sounds like a definitely disadvantage mod, taken as a whole.

Mods that change the game tend to be like that, with pluses and minuses.

I'd say that anyone who plans on using LAL's "Left for Dead" mod could call it a disadvantage. You start with no gear, in a dangerous place. Some places are more dangerous than others, of course. The Solstheim starts are pretty hard to survive, at level 1, with no gear. And with no money to book passage back to the mainland, even if you manage to get to Raven Rock. :)
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Areial
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Rick
May 17 2017, 03:03 PM
Trace,
Well....I was looking at it from the context provided by neil......his benchmark for his question...since other variables would vastly change the outcome (Neil set the score with light armour, 2h and on Master).

On Adept for example that big hammer would easily mulch those wolves whilst the player char would suffer little from a bite. So I would say BIG advantage mod since your romping away with lots of pelts and skill ups for little risk. Neil gave us Master....which changes the outcomes to a much more dangerous scenario if not handled well....as I elucidated. On Legendary you would really have to watch your back since bites would drop your health way faster than you could magic it back up and you only have a handful of minor potions.

So, I judged based on what neil wanted to be looked at, with the scenario variables he wanted considered. Had he given us Apprentice level, I would have looked upon it differently :)
I understand, which is why I said in context. .. but it's not always going to be that context.

Neil also asked about using it in this round, which is not played exclusively at Master.
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Brambleberry
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Sigh. . .16 days to go, tic toc, but the clock is really slow! I've got my character "class" worked out, but I've been avoiding doing any of the dwemer stuff because I want it fresh for the competition. I don't want to get burnt out repeating before starting! I asked Arniel if he could figure out the Dwemer time device, but he said he needed a bent piece of dwarven metal and thing a mah jig or was it a thing a ma bob to get it to work and there were no guarantees!

A slightly more serious question, are we fairly locked in now on the scope of the competition and the "rules"? Are there any outstanding questions with regards to mod use or points system, etc.? As we're just about to the 2 week mark I think this is about the time we start sharing over on beth.net to see if anyone wants to join in and that it might be a good time to work up the official announcement? :book: :pst:

OH! And this is for Sere and anyone else that enjoys M. Bastin's work:

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