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R.I.P. neildarkstar. Haven will miss you dearly.
| Death With Consequences (NOT DiD); A system of game play with consequences for death | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 10 2017, 10:37 PM (940 Views) | |
| neildarkstar | Aug 16 2017, 07:44 AM Post #81 |
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Overlord
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Exiting the game would not save your goodie from a CTD. Okay, you buy your necklace of Waterbreathing. Exit the game. Save game created, right? load teh game back up and there is your necklace, great! Ten seconds later you get a CTD and the last save you can load is when you got out of bad last before buying the necklace. Could be hours or days previous or in a different town/cell, and no guarantee the necklace will still be available when you get back to wherever you bought it... There is NO proof whatsoever that you didn't reload due to death or some such. |
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| Rick | Aug 16 2017, 07:59 AM Post #82 |
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Jarl
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So you need to do a get out of bed procedure to save your necklace from CTDs.... Proof...hmm.....Sah had an idea.....rather than prevent reloads.....they should show it as a stat on those UI screens. For my own purposes, showing healing pots taken would be good too........I can already demonstrate no healing spells used. Of course using zero potions period would show up, but I do love my alchemy, especially for its resistance brews. |
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| Kane | Aug 16 2017, 08:04 AM Post #83 |
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Overlord
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I long thought a mod that adds a death counter would be a neat project. |
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| Areial | Aug 16 2017, 09:22 AM Post #84 |
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Et'Ada
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Because of the heavy scripted mod's I run, I tend to save before going through any loading door's. I have had character's walk from Riften going to Solitude and crash at Dragonbridge.. only to find that the last save, was leaving Riften. I have learned to save before dragon fights, not because of dying, but due to CTD's with so much happening. |
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| Kane | Aug 16 2017, 03:04 PM Post #85 |
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Overlord
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I've become very F5 happy since I moved to PC. |
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| neildarkstar | Aug 16 2017, 04:40 PM Post #86 |
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Overlord
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Holly's participation (and Holly herself) in the DwC run has sadly come to an end. Here's what happened. She opened the door to Hangman's alley (which she had previously cleared), and found herself face to face with three gunners who were just on the other side of the door. There was no help, because no settlers had been placed in the Alley at that point and the one machine gun turret that had a clear target was sadly ineffective. Holly killed two of the Gunners, but was wounded badly enough in the process that the third gunner was able to kill her. Reloaded the previous save (which at that point I had no idea where it was) and she found herself back in her own bed in Sanctuary Hills. She had gone there the previous day for a Thanksgiving celebration... On her way out of the room, she dropped all of her weapons and armor in her dresser (convenient huh?) as she passed by it, and headed out for the Side Bet. When she arrived at the Dartmouth Professional Building, there was a pitched battle in progress this time. Scavengers vs Raiders. She waited until the battle was over, and was a bit unhappy because the Scavengers won. Not that she doesn't like Scavengers, quite the opposite in fact... and therein lay her problem. Scavengers won't usually get aggressive unless you intrude into their "territory" and threaten whatever they're scavenging. Holly knew that if she tried to just go in, the scavengers would kill her. She managed to sneak forward, and took a .308 hunting rifle from a dead Raider (the only one she could reach and still be out of the scavenger's notice). She flanked the remaining scavengers (at least 2, and more likely 3 with one being out of sight) and decided to try to take a better weapon with hopefully a faster fire rate and more capacity from a nearby Raider stronghold. She sniped a Raider who was a bit isolated, and waited a decent amount of time to see if any other Raisers noticed before moving up to see what weapons she might pick up. Of course, there was no alert or movement until she was fully committed, and then a machine gun turret opened up, a Raider Psycho came into view, followed immediately by a Legendary Raider. The Legendary managed to corner her, and although she shot him twice with the .308 it wasn't enough to save her. Taht made a total of five deaths, with two successful Side bets, and unfortunately, I just can't continue beyond that point... to me, she died at least one too many times for further play. Here's how her score worked out in the end: (with a little recap of the scoring system) Scoring: For each level gained: +100 For each successful Side Bet: +500 (Side Bet allowed only on death) For 1st Death -1000 For 2nd Death -1250 For 3rd Death -1500 For 4th Death -2000 (and every death thereafter) -2000 Holly is Level 19. +1900 Holly first death -1000 Holly second death -1250 Holly third death -1500 Holly Fourth Death -2000 Holly Fifth (and final) Death -2000 Holly First Side Bet +500 Holly Second Side bet +500 Totals +2900 -7750 Grand total -4850 In whatever competition Holly might be in, her current total score would thus have a 4850 point debit. Depending on the scoring system in that competition, that might or might not be catastrophic, but I'm certain it would at least be significant. RIP Holly Wood level 19 |
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| Areial | Aug 16 2017, 04:51 PM Post #87 |
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Et'Ada
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Bummer Neil...R.I.P. Holly |
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| Rick | Aug 16 2017, 05:14 PM Post #88 |
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Jarl
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Whaaat! Nooooooo! Oh come on neil....really? Holly was a great looking lady who's build coped well through all of it....now you're gonna leave her dead? Outlived her usefulness? Callously discarded like yesterdays old coffee? Forgive me getting this all wrong...but wasn't that the entire point of DwC? To not have to lose a great char. You can't just kill her like this...its its...well...its not right. Yeah....I really liked her......and so did you....it was written into everything you posted about her. The feeling. Don't make a rash move neil. She is worth more. Please reconsider before her entity (in you) starts to degenerate....only you can save Holly....if you care :( And I do not make a habit of impassioned pleas for others chars....c'mon you know it makes sense! Edited by Rick, Aug 16 2017, 05:17 PM.
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| neildarkstar | Aug 17 2017, 12:49 AM Post #89 |
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Overlord
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I've thought a lot about what you said Rick, and I've considered the matter carefully all day long. What you say is correct, I do like Holly, and I've enjoyed playing her... However, there is a deeper issue here. I mean, I've had many characters I liked, and that I enjoyed playing. The Graveyard in the Dead is Dead thread at the old Bethsoft forums is full of them... and they only died once, eh? Here's the thing though Rick. I never intended DwC to be a mechanic for immortality, though of course it can be seen that way I suppose. The problem is that when a character dies too often, it tends to indicate that the character is flawed in some fashion (though that flaw may not be obvious), and that means that as the levels get higher, the deaths will only become more frequent. Sometimes it is better to simply start anew and try to rectify that flaw by changing up various things that were integral to that character. while the deaths may be laid at my door as simple bad player choices, or perhaps laid at Fallout 4's door as some flaw in the game mechanic, it just doesn't matter in the end. Without change it only gets worse rather than better. I've seen it before, and unfortunately, it seems that Holly was cursed by the Gods of FO4. It's not that I don't care, Rick, rather it's that I do care. I care too much to allow her to suffer such humiliation endlessly. She may already be well on the way to taking that Darwin award, but only time will tell. For the record, it is not that she died five times that causes me to leave her in peace, but rather that she died five times before level 20... I may take some other character far beyond 5 deaths, but I tend to think that they will be far beyond level 20 by the fifth death. In fact, with DwC I kinda think the bottom line for a viable character is something on the order of 1 death each seven levels as a maximum. If a character can survive to level 21 without a death, then they are probably viable even if they have a little spate of death experiences thereafter. We all know how Bethesda's games are geared to make certain that the player character dies according to some internal mechanic of the game (or I think we do) and Fallout 4 is one of the worst of them in that regard. Hence the experience of opening a door to a cleared settlement to find three powerful enemies are in the settlement silently waiting for you just on the other side of that door. A viable character/Player combination has to be able to overcome that sort of thing somehow. Could Holly have survived that encounter? Perhaps... maybe if I hadn't started firing Holly's weapon (which i will sorely miss BTW) as a reflex action and if I had used Psychojet immediately, or used some other advantage. Of course in the end, the character has to be able to survive my decisions as well as whatever the game throws at her. That's asking a lot, I know, but it has to be that way. So it is that, with regret, I will leave Holly behind and soon begin anew hoping to find and fix that fatal flaw whatever it may be. |
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| Rick | Aug 17 2017, 04:35 AM Post #90 |
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Jarl
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Well then "Farewell Holly" sadly missed :( I do hope you find a survivable build....but I think you and I both know these games keep piling on the hurt with at first harder enemies, and then more enemies. Plus of course those deadly surprise attacks and the suckerpunch. Finding any build that can contend with that is a tall order and I am afraid in the end, longevity in a survival situation falls to essentially player skill, or maybe more correctly player carefulness. Good luck :) Edit......I have been thinking about this too. Look....the Contessa has a very viable long term survival build...clearly. Sooo....obviously she can't be killed at low levels by mere bandits or wolves eh! Believe it or not neil....I STILL sometimes get her killed by Imperial soldiers in the Helgen under-fort. Even now, at level 45, with primary skills reaching max, all it takes is a badass bandit boss with a couple of strong henchmen and we are in trouble. In fact....we just got our butts kicked by Forsworn in Broken Tower Redoubt. Adella had to flee to recover with under 20% health...only that 'Become Ethereal' shout saved her from being blizzard'ed to death by Forsworn mages, as she ran. My point being that we play with builds that are inherently weak (near naked! Or self nerfed) because we like it....but that means they depend upon us for their survival. Our decision making is the crux of their survival and the risks we run with them is our thrill. I am sure you can make a stronger or better equipped build....just as I could turn her ladyship into a practically undefeatable badass battlemage. But that's not how we roll is it. We love the risk and we love 'coping' with less than perfect builds....they are always going to be killable. It is upto US to ensure that doesn't happen eh! Edited by Rick, Aug 17 2017, 05:06 AM.
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| Kane | Aug 17 2017, 07:47 AM Post #91 |
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Overlord
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R.I.P. Holly. |
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| neildarkstar | Aug 17 2017, 08:52 AM Post #92 |
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Overlord
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I've already started the new char, I'll be posting info a little later, but... She's already off to a much better start than Holly ever got. She has no Pip-Boy issues, and those bloat flies that nearly killed Holly? Well they were joined by a wild mongrel, and this girl simply killed them all... With a freakin' switchblade yet! :blink: There's a part of me that wonders if Holly's fatal flaw was a Luck stat that was just too low when it really counted. |
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| Lapuaboy | Aug 19 2017, 04:06 AM Post #93 |
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Thane
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I can't stay away, but also hate the grind only to lose it all in one moment...so if you'll have me I'd like to join team alpha testers Mylanta is born! Here are some stats at level 6 Spoiler: click to toggle She is going to be a wrecking ball; Commando/Heavy Gunner/Demo Expert with Sneak to get up close if needed. I think Power Armor will be a part of her MO, but we'll see |
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| neildarkstar | Aug 19 2017, 05:03 AM Post #94 |
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Overlord
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Cool! Welcome aboard, eh? :) It doesn't matter which one you choose, but I'd like to know what difficulty you're going to be playing on so we can get a clear picture of how it goes... |
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| Kane | Aug 19 2017, 09:18 AM Post #95 |
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Overlord
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I think I'ma give this shot later, too. On Survival mode, for sure. Still need to wrap up Roxie, though, before I can roll with Vince. |
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| Lapuaboy | Aug 19 2017, 01:12 PM Post #96 |
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Thane
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Neil, I'm starting on Normal and I'll shout out when I switch to Hard diff when "we" get our act together :) That could be awhile :O |
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| neildarkstar | Aug 19 2017, 01:23 PM Post #97 |
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Overlord
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I'm having some issues with my survival playthrough. Rather, I believe I'm having issues with the "Survival Options" mod, and the scripts not running correctly. Last night I had several occurrences, but the worst ones were first, Super feral ghouls. Over 200 rounds from a .38 auto rifle, and Valleri finally managed to kill ONE of them, out of an entire pack. She then moved on to a Raider who also took 200 rounds from that rifle, and set off a bottle mine as well before finally dying. ...but NOT from the mine, it took another magazine to finsish him off. She has the Demo Expert perk too, but it didn't seem to be of much help. Then, it didn't recognize HER bed as abed, and informed her she couldn't sleep in a dirty bed for more than 5 hours, even though she built the damned bed with the workshop. I ended up resetting all of the Survival Options to default, and then setting them manually again, and it seems to be okay for now. I'm a little worried though. :bang: |
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| Kane | Aug 21 2017, 07:44 AM Post #98 |
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Overlord
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Vince is under way, on Survival mode. He specializes in long range and melee weaponry. S 6 P 2 E 2 C 3 I 3 A 7 L 5 So far, he has begun to set up his own domicile at the Concord Red Rocket Station, cleaned up the surrounding area a bit, and rescued the MM. |
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| neildarkstar | Aug 21 2017, 07:57 AM Post #99 |
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Overlord
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I don't believe I've ever played with an endurance that low. It should be interesting, eh? |
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| Kane | Aug 21 2017, 08:25 AM Post #100 |
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Overlord
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Yeah, especially with a focus on melee. Not gonna have much health, so I'll need plenty of armor. |
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