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Death With Consequences (NOT DiD); A system of game play with consequences for death
Topic Started: Aug 10 2017, 10:37 PM (939 Views)
Kane
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I did get lucky with my choice of melee weapon, though. The first dead raider you find in Concord had a bladed tire iron on him. Much better than a knife or machete.

I think I am going to struggle with ghouls, though, much like Val. I might resort to carrying a shotgun, too, since it falls under rifleman.
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Kane
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Vince:

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Kane
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So far, so good for Vince. He's level 12 an just finished up Corvega and The First Step. After which, he promptly told Preston to find someone else.

neil - can I interest you in a trade? My patrols of the Northern Commonwealth have been fruitful, to say the least. I've found six Antibiotic's already!
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Lapuaboy
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Mylanta just turned 24, and this experience is turning out different than I anticipated. Yeah, still doing the Commando/Demo (and later Heavy Gunner), but she is not the crazy "wrecking ball" I envisioned. At least not yet! She is a super snooper for sure, and we've been to places and "found" stuff I haven't seen in a thousand+ game hours. She is just quietly competent, going about her business of exploration and truth finding.

I am having a great time with her, with many thanks to the DwC concept. I am getting to play my favorite build, with exploding weapons and missile launchers, which in DiD I stay away from because at some point I will blow myself up. Here's the big one for me, and it just hit me last night as I was pondering why this play felt different: I am planning, building and playing for the future of Mylanta, that I want and will see. Far Harbor at level 80+? Yep, we'll get to experience that, and Nuka and whatever else we want. Settlement building in the design and execution takes on a bit more meaning to me as well.

I still take staying alive very seriously, and have managed that so far with her. I'll still compete in the various DiD comps we have here, but in FO4 I'd had my fill of restarts and DwC is a godsend for me :)

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neildarkstar
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About the time Valleri hit level 16, she started finding antibiotics two at a time in almost every first aid box she checked. She should have fifty or so antibiotics, but since she turned level 20, EVERY FREAKIN' MORNING she wakes up with an illness. She took Hangman's alley out of self defense so she'd have a base close to the doc in Diamond City... She has spent everything she has earned on things like crafting benches and shipments to build both Sanctuary and Starlight, so she really can't afford to trade anything for antibiotics. :)

Level 25 just now, and her total accumulated wealth is about 105 caps.

Valleri's going to have a Christmas Special for y'all soon... She rescued Nick starting on Christmas Day and finally sending him back to Ellie at first light of the next day. BTW, I'd love to show you a pick but... well,... Ellie seems to have a little clipping problem with her dress. yep, two little clips poking through right at chest height. Now I know why Nick like having her around though... :)

Lapuaboy, I'm glad you're enjoying your playthrough! Vallerie ahs managed to get herself killed three times now (she was level 24 at the time) but has succeeded with the Side Bet all three times. I have to tell you the REDACTED was quite the surprise at the Dartmouth Professional Building, eh? ;) (well, not AT it or in it, but very near to it).
Edited by neildarkstar, Aug 23 2017, 09:02 PM.
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neildarkstar
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I KNOW it's a bit early for Christmas, but don't tell Valleri... Diamond city doesn't CARE what time of year it is in the real world, it just has Christmas whenever it thinks/believes/wants it to be December 25th.

In any case, the bright and colorful lights are fascinating to Valleri, but somehow... they bring to mind dark memories of the last few days. Memories ranging from singing and dancing feral ghouls to dark trailers filled with danger and sudden death that bring about an introspection that my not be entirely helpful. Oh noes, not entirely helpful at all...

Valleri has realized that she has reached a crossroads in her life, where she might not be quite the person she always thought she was.




Edited by neildarkstar, Aug 24 2017, 02:06 AM.
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Rick
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neildarkstar
Aug 23 2017, 09:01 PM
BTW, I'd love to show you a pic but... well,... Ellie seems to have a little clipping problem with her dress. yep, two little clips poking through right at chest height. Now I know why Nick like having her around though... :)
Sorry Neil, I just can't visualise the problem....perhaps if I could see it I could help you out :drool:

Where do you obtain the <cough> faulty mod garments? :hubba:

Damn having the Microsoft thought police controlling my consol mods.
Edited by Rick, Aug 24 2017, 05:06 AM.
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neildarkstar
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I got the garments from the Nexus, but I think it's an error in "Body Slide" or "Outfit Studio" that accompanies it that caused the issue.

I would so love the freedom to just post anything I wanted to without worrying if something was "showing" that bring about the end of the civilized world... Every now and then I think that nothing has really changed since the days of the Puritans and the Spanish Inquisition.

Hey Kane, you mentioned lots of fun with ghouls, so I gotta tell you about this.

I was walking toward the Vault from Hangman's Alley, and I'd only gone a block or so when suddenly a ghoul ran around the corner in front of me. I got ready for action, but... he was on the other side of the street and ran past me in a full sprint without paying me any attention at all.

He ran on down the street till he rounded a corner, and that kinda left me wondering, eh? Well, in a moment or two he comes running back, so I lit him up in VATS just in case he'd changed his mind. He hadn't though, he just ran right on back toward where he'd originally come from, and like Pressed Rat and Warthog, went straight 'round the corner and never came back.

After a little bit, I followed to see what was going on, and found myself almost nose to navel with a Supermutant armed with a missile launcher. Funny thing was, the supermutant still hadn't noticed me, so he was an easy kill with a surprise attack, but...

The missile launcher he was carrying was a Legendary version. Yep, a "Ghoulslayer Missile Launcher" that does 20% extra damage to ghouls. No wonder that ghoul was running full bore, eh? :D

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glargg
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You should be able to fix that clipping issue with Body Slide/Outfit Studio. You load in the offending garment along with the body model you're using, and there's a raise/lower brush tool that you can use to adjust the area up or down to fit.

There are Youtube videos on using Body Slide. I think Gopher has one.
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Areial
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glargg
Aug 24 2017, 12:17 PM
You should be able to fix that clipping issue with Body Slide/Outfit Studio. You load in the offending garment along with the body model you're using, and there's a raise/lower brush tool that you can use to adjust the area up or down to fit.

There are Youtube videos on using Body Slide. I think Gopher has one.
He does and if I was at home I'd link it...
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Lapuaboy
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Last night was a perfect example of why I like DwC. Mylanta was working Cambridge while waiting for the sundown meet with H2-22. I always have to clear the Super Mutants from their building and the construction site warehouse...it's a do first tradition. Took care of the mutant at the cook pot and hound, the boss and buddies in the big open building, but couldn't find the Suicider. Went into the construction site warehouse; nothing at ground level like usual, so sneak to the stairs to get the one that's always in the upper loft. Get to the base of the stairs and suddenly hear something behind me I DO NOT want to hear. Turn around and a Super Mutant Suicider spawned right behind me. He was not there before, period. Got a quick look and enough time to think "shite" and then splat.

I thought that was a rather cheasy way to get taken out. I should have made sure that the suicider was accounted for, but hadn't had one spawn inside like that before, so hindsight is a beech. Anyway, in a DiD game that death would have really made me miserable, and a fifth restart unlikely. Hell, a fourth restart in DiD wasn't happening hence here I am playing DwC ;)

Now me being me, and my characters being quite equipment dependent I took the point loss and resumed from a save. I'll take the point hit rather than possibly A: getting killed again doing to the side bet and losing more points, and B: possibly losing gear that I couldn't replace. IF the rules were you can reload but HAVE to ditch everything I would of course abide, but in this case it's my choice to eat the points in what for me is a "safer" option.

In a competition eating the points would be a big hit, but again that's my choice, and I like that I have that option. I like DiD and will compete in DiD, but holy hells deaths take their toll and at some point for me "enough is enough." I think in FO4 DwC is especially welcome. Thanks Neil! :cheers:
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neildarkstar
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glargg
Aug 24 2017, 12:17 PM
You should be able to fix that clipping issue with Body Slide/Outfit Studio. You load in the offending garment along with the body model you're using, and there's a raise/lower brush tool that you can use to adjust the area up or down to fit.

There are Youtube videos on using Body Slide. I think Gopher has one.
The thing is that I'm not terribly interested in fixing it. First, there is the matter of how much time and effort would go into it... It's not merely one outfit, but actually quite a few outfits and of course all by the same author.

Second, the area of the clipping fits in with my "Free the Nipple" campaign perfectly, so it's like asking Aela if there's a cure for being a werewolf. She just says something to the effect of "you act like it's a disease or something rather than a Blessing"

Third, two little protruding brown spots are not going to bother me all that much. The only reason I mentioned it was that I just thought it was kinda funny.

It's nice to know there is a cure for clipping, because some of it does bother me. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll have to find that tutorial. I do appreciate your thoughtful gesture, but the last time I tried something like that in outfit studio, I ruined my game entirely and had to start the whole thing from scratch. :)

The idea of having to load up twenty or thirty outfits to "fix" is a bit daunting in any case, and especially so when you realize that I use three or four body models, and sometimes more than one with a single character (reflecting change over time).
Edited by neildarkstar, Aug 24 2017, 02:49 PM.
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Areial
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And now you know why I "test" all the new mod outfits, if they don't exactly fit the way I want them to, I don't play with that outfit on that character, but fix it first.
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Rick
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Ohhh,
My misunderstanding Neil....it really is a clipping issue then.

I thought you had sourced some saucy bra cups with cutouts..... from the mod version of 'Anne Summers'.

I am onside with your FTN campaign ;)
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neildarkstar
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Lapuaboy
Aug 24 2017, 02:16 PM
Last night was a perfect example of why I like DwC. Mylanta was working Cambridge while waiting for the sundown meet with H2-22. I always have to clear the Super Mutants from their building and the construction site warehouse...it's a do first tradition. Took care of the mutant at the cook pot and hound, the boss and buddies in the big open building, but couldn't find the Suicider. Went into the construction site warehouse; nothing at ground level like usual, so sneak to the stairs to get the one that's always in the upper loft. Get to the base of the stairs and suddenly hear something behind me I DO NOT want to hear. Turn around and a Super Mutant Suicider spawned right behind me. He was not there before, period. Got a quick look and enough time to think "shite" and then splat.

I thought that was a rather cheasy way to get taken out. I should have made sure that the suicider was accounted for, but hadn't had one spawn inside like that before, so hindsight is a beech. Anyway, in a DiD game that death would have really made me miserable, and a fifth restart unlikely. Hell, a fourth restart in DiD wasn't happening hence here I am playing DwC ;)

Now me being me, and my characters being quite equipment dependent I took the point loss and resumed from a save. I'll take the point hit rather than possibly A: getting killed again doing to the side bet and losing more points, and B: possibly losing gear that I couldn't replace. IF the rules were you can reload but HAVE to ditch everything I would of course abide, but in this case it's my choice to eat the points in what for me is a "safer" option.

In a competition eating the points would be a big hit, but again that's my choice, and I like that I have that option. I like DiD and will compete in DiD, but holy hells deaths take their toll and at some point for me "enough is enough." I think in FO4 DwC is especially welcome. Thanks Neil! :cheers:


Some people might be wondering here, so I think I should clarify the situation before it gets carried off to never-never land.
First, let me say that at this point, (meaning alpha testing to find out what works) there is no "wrong" way to play DwC in its current form.

However, let me just speak of how I envisioned it, and then we can talk about whether that vision matches up with the expectations of everyone else or not.

So, in my mind, when you are killed you have an immediate choice. You can take the side bet, which means dropping your weapons and armor in the nearest place you can find that provides some protection from items dropping through the floor or into the ground, and head for home base.

On your way to Home Base, you are technically "dead" which means no buying, selling, trading, or running by your house or whatever to resupply with weapons and armor. Once you have actually been inside Home Base, you may do as you please. Go buy stuff, return to your dropped gear, or just forget it, that's up to you. Doing the side bet gets you 500 of your points back.

If you don't take the side bet...
As I envisioned it, you would proceed to the nearest respawning container and deposit all of your weapons and armor in it, and then get on with your life. Go home and resupply, go buy new gear, whatever. I don't really have an issue with simply eating the points as lapuaboy did, but in fact if you're NOT in a competition that means there really is no penalty or consequence for death because the points penalty is really meaningless unless you have something to mark them against.

When we're all talking about our characters, and how well they did or did not do, a very large negative score might be embarrassing as opposed to other players or other characters, making it a sort of informal competition or perhaps a game of "Solitaire"... I dunno, but that's why we need feedback with differing opinions.

As for me, I will continue with my more hardcore version of "do the Side Bet or lose weapons and armor as well as eating the points. To each his own until we formally set rules, eh? :)

Areial
Aug 24 2017, 03:17 PM
And now you know why I "test" all the new mod outfits, if they don't exactly fit the way I want them to, I don't play with that outfit on that character, but fix it first.


I don't wear those outfits with my characters anyway, so it really doesn't matter too much to me. Lots of them are worn by NPCs like Ellie though. Of course it's always nice to get into a conversation with Martha...

"Martha! Look! Did you see that? That girl's lady parts was showing right through the crotch of her Daisy Dukes! Gave me a snapshot, and it didn't even cost me the quarter... No, don't look, Martha, it'll warp yer mind and you'll be a-wantin' to go runnin' around like that next thing we know... think of the grandkids... or even worse, what will Auntie Ethyl say?"
:)
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Lapuaboy
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I guess I didn't get it. If I die, and don't do the side bet, I lose all my gear. If I do complete the side bet, I might/should get my gear back as a reward for the danger involved. Is that correct? That pretty much makes the side bet the favored option, huh?
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Brambleberry
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That's how I read it Lap.

Side bet may or may not be the favored option depending on how many one has done. First time it might be worth it, 3rd time it may not if you haven't gotten re-geared. It is in a word . . . fluid.

The NON side bet option might be worth it if you die in such a precarious place as to make the side bet impossible no matter how many times you try to do it.

I think theme wise one would approach each "death" with the thinking of, "If I don't take the side bet I'm going to lose all my gear and weapons, is that really a big deal?" or "If I take the side bet I shave off some points and I could possibly get back my gear especially that 10 mm Explosive Pistol."

In the end it will come down to an evaluation of the current gear and other items the character is carrying at death and the most important question, "are there consequences for my death if I take or do not take the side bet". Which ever one provides the "most meaningful" consequences from your perspective would be the one to go with.
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neildarkstar
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Very nicely put, Bram! :)
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neildarkstar
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A little side trip for Valleri here. She found herself in Goodneighbor with a little spare time.


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neildarkstar
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Update on current neildarkstar events.

I've decided to restart Valleri because I want (and need) to make some rather large changes to her build. The reason is simply because I there were things I didn't understand going in, with the result that I wasted a lot of time and perks. I'm looking forward to Playing Valleri with some differences.

For one thing she gets a new name just for the fun of it. She's still based on a Native American character, but perhaps more in touch with her roots than the Valleri you've come to know.

Anyway, we'll see how it goes. Still Death with Consequences of course...

Valleri's final Score for the run is:

Deaths 5 (Final death occurred in Nuka World, a laser turret from behind) -7,750
Side Bet completed +2,000
level 30 +3,000

Net Score -2,750

A thought on DwC that was presented to me a short time ago... In Nuka-World for instance, you can't just reload your last save and go back to Home base (I didn't realize that going in, of course) So, I'm thinking that in such a case, one must reload the last save in which returning to Home Base is possible. Thqat could potentially result in a consdirable loss of played content, but of course you have the option of getting rid of your weapons and armor (as I see it anyway) and just eating the points if the amount of playtime lost is too great.

Let me know what you think about it folks.
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