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R.I.P. neildarkstar. Haven will miss you dearly.
| MO or NMM? | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 3 2017, 09:02 AM (330 Views) | |
| Kane | Sep 3 2017, 09:02 AM Post #1 |
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Overlord
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Got some time before LE arrives (ship date is vague as hell, 9/18-10/3), so I figured I'd get some opinions. :) |
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| Serethil | Sep 3 2017, 09:12 AM Post #2 |
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Et'Ada
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MO's author is now working for Robin at Nexus, on the "new" NMM (which has a name but I don't remember it). Not much point in starting MO now, and the "documentation" is AWFUL. Ditto NMM - if they ever get a real full working version done, I might try it. I bet that's a couple years down the road though.... I'm seriously happy doing everything manually. Even stuff from Legacy (Patch Central) that would be easier with a FOMOD (which it includes) isn't hard for me (though others whine about it). With the size of today's hdds it doesn't matter how many different installs you keep around. I just name mine something like SkyrimLegacyandBSBruma; SkyrimLegacyOnly; SkyrimNoMods; SkyrimBaseMods - etc. They all live on my data drive, and when I need a different one, I just copy that one into the steam folder where it belongs.... I do say up front though that uninstalling or disabling is far more difficult manually - but once you get it sorted out it's MUCH cleaner than NMM. Here's the thing with NMM - it does NOT remove scripts as far as I can determine, when you tell it to uninstall a mod. It gets rid of the .esp and .bsa, and it will sometimes clean up the meshes and textures folders (but not always and not perfectly) - if the mod author uses loose files and puts them in the mod-named folders under the meshes and textures folders. Scripts? Nope. Nor sounds IIRC. Edited by Serethil, Sep 3 2017, 09:15 AM.
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| Areial | Sep 3 2017, 09:21 AM Post #3 |
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Et'Ada
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I have the last version of NMM... I have very few issues with it. The main one is that some mod's don't switch "on" when I change profiles.. but IF I start up the save without actually checking ( I have once or twice.. or more ) I get a message that I am missing mods and a list of which ones. That said, I might be switching over to Wyre Bash.. I use it anyway, but in a cut down version. I'm in the process of reading all the "read me's" and doc's and making sure I understand them and how it all works.. IF it's possible, I will probably download it.. then start up a character with Wrye Bash.. but leave NMM in place until I am comfortable with WB.. Edited by Areial, Sep 3 2017, 09:22 AM.
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| Kane | Sep 3 2017, 09:24 AM Post #4 |
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Overlord
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Scripts and sounds, eh? Hmm. I know what you mean about texture folders, too - I've seen those left behind myself. I dabbled briefly with WB, before going back to NMM. Wasn't a fan of the interface. |
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| Areial | Sep 3 2017, 09:41 AM Post #5 |
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Et'Ada
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Really I want to be able to use it for ease of modding in Oblivion.. I would like to do a run through.. eventually! ATM I'd just rather deal with NMM... I do manually download all my mod's now.. cause then they are not attached to the NMM til I move them over and are still in my download files. |
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| neildarkstar | Sep 3 2017, 03:05 PM Post #6 |
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Overlord
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I used to use MO, but I finally got tired of having half my mods handled by MO and the other half by NMM, so I moved them all to NMM and I use that and LOOT with very few issues that are related to that. I used to do it all manually back in the days of Morrowind and Oblivion, but it's really just a useless PITA to do it that way IMO. |
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| Kane | Sep 3 2017, 05:55 PM Post #7 |
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Overlord
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I think that's the formula I will probably stick to, Neil. I'm used to NMM, so why change it, ya know? |
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| Areial | Sep 3 2017, 06:37 PM Post #8 |
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Et'Ada
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Depending on the types of mods you are using you might want to add Wyre Bash Standalone.. This is the version I use. For instance, I use: Tera Armor by Asianboy and LadyHorus's version of Tera Armors... it's at Lovers Lab.. I could not use the two of them together without a Bash Patch..as one would over-write the other and/ or conflict.. OR a lot of fiddling in the files.. which I do not like to do. The way I work, pick a "Base" profile: * Run LOOT> WyreBash> Dual Sheath Redux> FINIS *Add mods ( in a small group, those I know work together first) *Run Loot> WyreBash> DSR> FINIS *Test load order , which I do by starting in Falkreath Hold and riding the horse full speed around the map -new mod's get added one by one - DSR isn't needed, unless you have it.. FINIS isn't needed unless the MA say's it is - I run TESIVEdit at the end of any adding in of new mods..OR if on a Test run has CTD's It can be time consuming, but better wasting time before I start a RP than after a long time. |
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| ghastley | Sep 13 2017, 12:24 PM Post #9 |
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Knight
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I use Wrye for all the TES games (Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrims) and wouldn't use anything else. It's the only one that properly handles loose file removal - not to mention the bashed patch capability when mods conflict on list replacement. Profiles were better in the earlier games than with Skyrim. Now there's a bit of manual work turning things on and off after a profile switch. |
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| Turija | Sep 16 2017, 06:08 AM Post #10 |
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Thane
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Wrye Bash is the only mod manager I use. It can do anything MO does without the virtualization (although as ghastly says it can be more work to switch between profiles). Plus it has a ton of modders tools that MO doesn't have, like being able to esmify a mod or package it up for release, not to mention showing a list of dependencies. Plus I really dig the old school user interface. I'm not a fan of modern looking metro UIs that are all the rage these days. I will take Wrye Bash's simply and clean UI over any modern touch screen inspired UI any day of the week. I can access any feature in Wrye Bash so much quicker and easier with the mouse than just about any other app I use. The other thing I like about Wrye Bash is the absolute control it gives you over everything. It's easy to create your own BAINs and installing a mod with Wrye Bash is basically the same as doing it manually but with the ability to track what you have installed, uninstall cleanly and completely, and to be able to change the install order on the fly. Edited by Turija, Sep 16 2017, 06:13 AM.
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| Kane | Sep 18 2017, 08:52 AM Post #11 |
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Overlord
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Wrye Bash is....odd. It looks like it would take some time to figure it all out. |
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| Areial | Sep 18 2017, 09:12 AM Post #12 |
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Et'Ada
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It didn't me, but all I use it for it the Bash Patch.. at least that is all I use it for atm.. |
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| Serethil | Sep 18 2017, 09:32 AM Post #13 |
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Et'Ada
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Oh, there is one thing NMM will do if you're logged in: in the Tools menu will be an option to "Remove unmanaged assets" or something like that - which supposedly will get rid of scripts, sound files and so on. Doesn't matter to me, but to those of you who do use NMM, you might want to check out how that works. And from alt3rn1ty on the Posts page at Wrye Bash:
Edited by Serethil, Sep 18 2017, 10:35 AM.
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| Kane | Sep 18 2017, 09:33 AM Post #14 |
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Overlord
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Interesting, I didn't know about that option. Thanks for the tip! |
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| Turija | Sep 19 2017, 02:17 AM Post #15 |
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Thane
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If you know how to manually install mods, then Wrye Bash is pretty easy to learn. If you don't know how to install mods manually you can learn by learning Wrye Bash, since the BAINs for installing with Wrye Bash follow the same folder structure as a manual installation. So learning how to structure a BAIN is the same process for structuring your folders for a manual install. Here is a link to the Pictorial Guide for Wrye Bash, which is the best (only?) comprehensive guide to Wrye Bash. |
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| Kane | Sep 19 2017, 07:31 AM Post #16 |
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Overlord
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I'll give that a few looks, Turija, thanks! |
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| Serethil | Sep 19 2017, 09:32 AM Post #17 |
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Et'Ada
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I installed Wrye Bash yesterday myself. I didn't have any issues figuring it out for just getting a bashed patch. Haven't done any reading about anything else with it. Since my current load order is producing a really stable game right now, I figured this was a good time to play with it. Couple minor issues: it throws an error with JK's Skyrim, which I couldn't find any fix for anywhere; and my unbelievably antique no-quest-items mod is merged, but still shows in the load order as active, which I haven't a clue how to fix. I used to use WB with Oblivion but it doesn't look all that familiar to me at this point. I'm most likely to continue to just use it alongside manual installs, LOOT, and Profile Manager for the bashed patch. Next time I set up a clean install, I might play with the installer function. |
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| Brambleberry | Sep 19 2017, 12:11 PM Post #18 |
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Jarl
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Never mind I found it on the pictorial page you linked under the spoiler. BAsh INstaller Edited by Brambleberry, Sep 19 2017, 12:12 PM.
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| neildarkstar | Sep 19 2017, 12:39 PM Post #19 |
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Overlord
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I hate acronyms. I can never remember what they stand for, and even if I do, I'm never certain that what I think we're talking about actually IS what we're talking about. Like my daughter, said she had an interview with DHS for a job interview. I said "DHS! What would be doing with the Department of Homeland Security?" She laughed and said "No dad... Department of Human Resources..." Well, how the hell am I supposed to know, eh? :bang: |
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| Turija | Sep 19 2017, 01:51 PM Post #20 |
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Thane
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I hate acronyms too. That was the hardest part of learning Wrye Bash for me. All the acronyms and jargon. Skyrim modding reminds me of RAF Banter. For the benefit of people trying to learn Wrye Bash: BAIN is short for BAsh INstaller -- A "simple" BAIN is just a 7z file containing the mod you want to install with all of its files and subfolders organized in such a way that you could just paste it in the data folder if you were doing a manual install. To install a BAIN, just paste it in yoru Bash Installers folder, then navigate to it in you Wrye Bash Installers tab, right click on it and select install. A "complex" BAIN is just a collection of "simple" BAINs that are organized in numbered folders before you package them up in 7z. The only difference between a "simple" BAIN and a "complex" BAIN is that you can select the numbered folders individually in the right pane before clicking on install. Very helpful if you using a mod with various installation options, especially if you later want to change options. The Wrye Bash documentation further confuses it by sometimes calling a BAIN a "package". A "package" is basically the same as a BAIN. Another confusing term is "anneal," which is a fancy term for a Wrye Bash function that will check to see whether files for a particular mod have been replaced by files from another mod that has either been uninstalled or that has been installed but moved up in the installation order above the mod you are checking. By right clicking on a mod and selecting "anneal" you can make sure it will have all of its files installed based on the current installation order. You can also select "auto-anneal" in the set up options (right click on the file header at top and make sure "auto-anneal" is selected. With auto-anneal enabled, Wrye Bash will automatically replace files as needed when you adjust install order (by dragging and dropping mods up and down in the installers tab) or when you uninstall a mod. Thus insuring that you won't have missing files or the wrong version of a file in your installation resulting from uninstalling a mod or changing install order. |
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