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(Skyrim) The Dragonguard! (1); Time to slay those dragons!
Topic Started: Jul 13 2016, 10:54 AM (4,319 Views)
Rick
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Jarl
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Pretty quick levelling there Grits....you'll be getting bandit Plunderers and Elder dragons maybe. The bad ones I hate are "Revered" that damn Drain Vitality shout is a killer.....one hit and it sapps health away for a whole minute...more than you will have in fact....keep lots of healing potions on you!
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Grits
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Yep, this contest rewards higher levels so I went with a fast-leveling build. Normally I would have started her on Expert and only used one crafting skill, which would run about one level-up per hour for the first 20 levels or so. Two crafts plus Master (you get to hit them more) moves things along quickly. I much prefer leveling slowly. I feel like Jonna will need a “real” game after this round so that she can experience and savor her world as she grows!

I debated using Block + One-Handed rather Two-Handed for an even bigger/faster build, but I was afraid her perks would be too thin. Plus I couldn’t resist the greatsword aesthetic with her look. I can’t wait to get her “scaled” armor set and Nordic weapons! She has to wait until she can craft it, which will be a little longer.
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Rick
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Yes Nordic are almost as food as glass gear....just that quicksilver needs a bit of hunting down....I know four veins and the mine in Dawnstar...it can be hard to find on vendors. Block and one H...yeah, thats my staple for Adella...combat is fast and shields are good...but as you say it does thin the perks out leaving not much for alchemy or enchanting.
My optimum build needs all three crafts perked plus one H, block and bow
Thats about 40 - 45 perks. Of course, like anyone, I'm doing Bleakfalls at level 3 in crappy fine smithed leather armour and the Greybeards by level 12. But I Wouldn't go dragon hunting until level 30.
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glargg
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Rick,
I feel that MFD on PC is pretty decent at Adept, but falls short at higher settings. That's really true for most shouts and magic in the game; it's all balanced around the default damage. Even on PC, MFD does more damage than just about any other shout, on a per-second-of-cooldown basis. The difference with PC is that it doesn't stack, so you use it once, then switch to a different form of damage.

And, of course, it doesn't mess up your follower permanently on PC.

Glad to see you're entering! Good luck, Adella! :)
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FreeWitch
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Brambleberry
Jul 23 2016, 09:04 AM
Freewitch

When you're done with the competition you can try The Paarthurnax Dilemma mod. Keepy your Paarthy and put Delphine in her proper place!
WAHAYYY - Thanks Bram! I will definitely be trying this baby out when I get my computer set. I was actually off ALL weekend so got to play quite a bit :)

Jolea

Level = 15
Playtime = 27:45:36
Words of Power Learned = 16
Unlocked = 6
Fully Unlocked = 3 (Unrelenting Force, Elemental Fury, Marked for Death)
Dragons Killed = 7
Named Dragons Killed = 3 (Mirmulnir, Sahloknir, Vuljotnaak)
Dragon Priest Masks = 0

Items of note = Amulet of Talos (bought), Dwarven Boots of Frost Suppression. She actually FOUND these. :banana: Dwarven Shield of Waning Magic (12% and bought) Now Calcelmo wants it. Iron shield of Waning Fire (bought). Exquisite Dwarven Armor (she made) and Ring of Minor Stamina.

She finally has some magic resistance now with the shield, book of love quest and Lord Stone so she is doing a heck of a lot better than she was and her pocketbook is growing since she doesn't use so danged many potions!

Edge of Seat Moments = Astrid! Holy heck was there a butt whoopin' happening there. I really thought I was going to loose her. That Blade of Woe on Expert is no good LOL

Side Note - My game is glitching. I have TWO Drain Vitality Shouts in my shout section so I am counting this stuff on my own and not relying on what the game sections are telling me on this stuff.
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Rick
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Thanks Glargg,
I thought on pc, apart from the non stacking, that the power of MfD had been reduced also (not that I can see it for myself of course). Uncorrected it ruins armour by 25 points per sec (for one word) for an entire minute. And as we know it can lower armour into the -ve range effectively boosting your weapon damage beyond its rating. I have been unable to work out what this 25 points per second relates to.....it can't be the reduction of Armour Rating itself because most armour only has at best a couple of hundred points AR and the basic MfD would drop it to zero in just ten seconds. It also works on ostensibly non armoured opponents too including dragons, bears, spriggans etc. The health reduction it does is a sepparate effect and relatively mild...a three word MfD single shout, can just about kill a basic bandit (Legendary), but not an Outlaw. Adella loves to watch their health dwindle away. I liken its real world effect to what you'd get exposed to a truely massive dose of ionising radiation in the region of 10000 rads gamma. Flesh rotting in minutes...bleeding from every orrifice...brain malfunction and the worst sunburn like ever.......yuk!


FreeWitch.....yes all vanilla games are bugged with the Drain Vitality shout. In fact if you don't unlock MfD first, the DV bug can stop you getting MfD. DV does actually work however, but its not very strong even if reshouted frequently. Its no where near the effect Revered Dragons can do to you....which I think is wrong in principle....in fact ALL Dragonborns shoutes are dumbed down versions of the dragon shouts which is kinda a show spoiler I think.
Edited by Rick, Jul 24 2016, 08:02 PM.
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glargg
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Rick
Jul 24 2016, 07:54 PM
Thanks Glargg,
I thought on pc, apart from the non stacking, that the power of MfD had been reduced also (not that I can see it for myself of course). Uncorrected it ruins armour by 25 points per sec (for one word) for an entire minute. And as we know it can lower armour into the -ve range effectively boosting your weapon damage beyond its rating. I have been unable to work out what this 25 points per second relates to.....it can't be the reduction of Armour Rating itself because most armour only has at best a couple of hundred points AR and the basic MfD would drop it to zero in just ten seconds. It also works on ostensibly non armoured opponents too including dragons, bears, spriggans etc. The health reduction it does is a sepparate effect and relatively mild...a three word MfD single shout, can just about kill a basic bandit (Legendary), but not an Outlaw. Adella loves to watch their health dwindle away. I liken its real world effect to what you'd get exposed to a truely massive dose of ionising radiation in the region of 10000 rads gamma. Flesh rotting in minutes...bleeding from every orrifice...brain malfunction and the worst sunburn like ever.......yuk!


I think you have it right. The Unofficial patch resets the Recover flag for the armor rating with every tick of the timer, so that the armor rating is only effectively reduced once per casting.

The damage part of the shout is still useful, as it results in a 180 point drop in health for one shout. Not a huge amount, but it's a set-and-forget effect like a poison. And I think it works out to more physical damage than any other shout (except for something like Storm Call, which has a huge cooldown time.) Three words of Fire Breath only give 90 damage, and the cooldown is more than twice as long.

I used MFD four times against a Blood Dragon last night. It was one of those annoying fights where the dragon would hide on the other side of the hill, then zoom over in a strafing run, so he was hard to hit. I got MFD into him each time he did the "hover and blast" thing, along with as many arrows as I could shoot, and I could see his health gradually drop as he flew around.

Finally got him on the ground and pincushioned him. :)

In other words, MFD still helps, but it takes a lot longer, and you have to keep re-applying.
Edited by glargg, Jul 24 2016, 08:50 PM.
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Poncho
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Rick; I came across a mod a while ago that I think evens the score a little with regards to Shouts...called Dragon Soul Relinquishment. Allows you to exchange customisable numbers of Dragon Souls for customisable boosts up to a customisable limit. Get boosts to carry weight, stats (h/m/s), unarmed strength, extra perk points, shout cooldown reduction, and most importantly....Shout Power (up to 1000% power boost)

Obviously this could be used to cheat yourself to God Mode....but can be used in a balanced way. Obviously it's unfair for competition play though and gets disabled, but still....

I don't know if it involves any scripts, so it may be transferrable to consoles if the creator agrees to allow it
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Rick
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Poncho.....Yeah the vanilla shouts are too weak imo.....the direct damage ones like fire breath I can understand being reduced....by me playing Legendary. But Unrelenting Farce should fling opponents away with much more gusto. Should be able to knock a mammoth over.

The cooldowns are way too long also (storm call is like 7 minutes I think....by which time you either don't need it or you're dead). The Talos amulet hardly makes a difference and the shrine praying I don't think does anything!

Glargg.....So your MfD has the same strength of armour ruining effect as mine....but you have to inflict the damage within the one minute active phase. After which their armour is back to normal. Well, I could live with that.

If you examin the armour afterwards its never 'ruined'. I tend to regard the shout as ruining their armour skill....not technically correct but it makes more sense than self repairing armour. The console version does have the convenience of being able to shout it and run away....returning later to a still weakened foe (thinking Curalmil here...I often shout and run from him).

But like I said, because its permanent....if you hit a friend....they are done.
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Grits
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Rick, the MFD armor effect modifies the damage resist value, not the actual armor or AR. That’s how it works on unarmored opponents, and why it doesn’t help to give Lydia new armor if she’s been hit. I’ve thought of it as a magical effect making the target’s armor, scales, or whatever weak or porous while the “Mark” is active.

I wonder if using the Wabbajack would fix a Marked follower?

FreeWitch, well done against Astrid! That fight has me nervous.

Jonna got another Blood Dragon, unlocked two more words, and burned through another hour in the Bonestrewn Crest area. She is presently in Kynesgrove where Roggi keeps giving her the dialog for Lenne’s quest but not the actual quest. Sigh. This happened with Sven and Faendal, too. Well, at least she hasn’t seen any more animals fall through the ground lately.

Good hunting, everyone!
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Brambleberry
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The Talos Shrine in Vanilla Skyrim (no unofficial patches) always read 0%, but it actually did what it was supposed to (20%). You can test this just by checking shout time prior to the blessing, get the blessing an you will see a reduction in the shout time.

The unofficial patches fixed the text for the blessing buff to read correctly.

:cheers:
Edited by Brambleberry, Jul 25 2016, 08:39 AM.
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Rick
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Ah right thanks Bram....just a typo then.

Thanks Grits....I will check out the damage formula to better understand where 'damage resist' fit into the scheme.
I just think of MfD as a massive gamma burst that make them irrecoverably ill. Like the neutron bomb....damages people not places. Something evil about that concept.
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glargg
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Rick
Jul 25 2016, 06:43 AM


Glargg.....So your MfD has the same strength of armour ruining effect as mine....but you have to inflict the damage within the one minute active phase. After which their armour is back to normal. Well, I could live with that.
No, I believe it resets on every tick of the clock, not on expiration of the effect. You get a maximum 75 point reduction in Damage Resistance (not Armor Rating.) It works on unarmored opponents, but not to the degree that your console version does.

I tend to agree with the Unofficial Patch on this one. I think that MFD is grossly overpowered in the unpatched version, and that the PC patch makes the shout comparable to the others. Whether all of the shouts are unbalanced is, of course, another matter.
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Rick
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Glargg, well of course some of your perception of its excessive effectiveness could be because you normally enjoy a lower difficulty so your weapons have that much greater effect upon ruined foes. For me it seems better balanced, creating something closer to glass canons between me and my foes. With MfD we both have devastating attacks, but the great vulnerability also.

Even so...Your maximum 75 points reduction seems really weak...mine should attain that in three seconds. If I Shoot something after just three seconds of MfD there is no noticable difference in rate of health loss...at all. It needs at least 20 seconds to really start hurting their armour.

Edit....I just looked up Wiki....I think they are not clear, or may have it wrong...First it says you can kill an enemy with "thousands of health using a single blow from a basic weapon"...laughably inaccurate, it also says the effect clock keeps ticking permanently....which it does not. It stops getting worse at one minute and simply retains that level of harm...unless you stack further applications of it into the foe. Foes surviving at one minute on a very low health will stop glowing purple and their health recovers that small amount. Trolls will at that point start to recover health fully at their normal rate (showing the effect has stopped growing, but they stay 'armour' damaged of course) It also says damage resistance is harmed to a maximum of just 9% and that's with the three word version....if that was true it wouldn't even be worth using a soul for!
So...I am not trusting the Wiki write up at all.

I find it still takes a few good hits from a powerful weapon to bring down a foe with MfD in operation. Without that shout...dropping a dragon could take fifty arrows or more (I'm gonna try it) from a well fortified bow. We'd get killed long before doing ANY serious harm to an Elder lizard.

Yes...I think all the shouts are just too weak for a 'super power' and parthys extra training is practically unnoticable. Imo..Beth got it wrong. Fire breath SHOULD incinerate enemies not merely annoy them.
UF should fling foes like they've been hit by a train.
MfD does about what I think it should to armour, but health loss is minimal, and why such short range when UF can reach the lookout atop Valthiem Towers from ground level?
Ice Form lasts less time on senior foes...its not enough by far.
Storm Call...well if foes survive it, you are then shout less for a very long time.
Even the WWS isn't exactly jaw dropping in distance covered!

Some person or group at Beth had to decided on shout power during development and I think they got it wrong.....but it IS consistent with Beths general take on 'low performance' boosters....like necklaces that grant you so little bonus you may as well just sell them cos they won't save your hide until you get the top version which is still woeful. Yes..shouts follow that principle quite well....

You know what....I can feel some Mythbusters testing coming on! :)
Edited by Rick, Jul 25 2016, 04:00 PM.
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Grits
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Jonna has found her first Ebony weapons. She is now wielding a beautiful Ebony bow instead of the Nordic one I imagined her using. Sigh. Why do I bother with a plan?! 21 hours and change.

Here's her progress:

Spoiler: click to toggle


Still on her way to get the Horn.
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Rick
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Yay! go Grits, that good going for 20 hours...especially with those draugr crypts too! AND on Master! Respect (fist bump) :)
Edited by Rick, Jul 25 2016, 05:23 PM.
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Grits
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Thanks, Rick! This girl is nailing it. LA for speed and Two-Handed for reach is sweet fun, but those draugr bosses can get to her and they are tough. She fights everything. I’d love to give her some Stamina so she can sprint in combat, but she needs the Heath to survive the big hits.

Jonna’s skills are Two-handed, Marksman, Light Armor, Restoration, Alteration, Alchemy, and Smithing. Like I said, big build. Also Block and Speech are moving up due to play, but not perked. She has a ring with a Health boost and the Amulet of Akatosh. Today she found some archery armor, but it’s on steel plate dammit! She has no luck finding enchantments. Oh yeah, her Magic Resistance is solid now, only one more perk in Alteration and she'll be at her max. Bring it, dragons!
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Sah
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soooooooooooooooo.................who is winning?


hello guys :hugs: .............been in hospital for 2 weeks :face: ..............but is getting better now :clap:
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Brambleberry
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Sah,

So sorry to hear you were out of commission and very, very glad you are doing better. I don't think anyone has even really looked at who's winning at this point. Still a couple weeks to go. We have missed you and I was wondering whether a daedra had spirited you off to Oblivion. Always good to see you back on Nirn! :D
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Grits
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A warm welcome back, Sah! Glad you are out of the hospital and getting better. :hugs:
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