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(Skyrim) The Dragonguard! (1); Time to slay those dragons!
Topic Started: Jul 13 2016, 10:54 AM (4,321 Views)
glargg
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Jarl
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Brambleberry
Jul 21 2016, 08:49 PM
I believe Rick has it right in that let's say when you go to the wall the first time you have a blood dragon. The next time (that is enough time has passed) if you are still near your level you were you may again encounter a blood dragon and not receive a soul. If, however, you have leveled sufficiently and now you encounter an Elder dragon, then when it dies you will get a soul because the game believes it to be a "new" dragon. A rather quirky set up by Bethesda, but that's how they roll. ;)

It probably feels sporadic because sometimes you have a character that levels slowly and encounters it, but most characters level at a faster rate and never see the "bug".

Just a surmise of the situation as I've experienced and not really based in hard fact.

:cheers:
Nice theory, but unfortunately it doesn't explain my experience.

This was indeed my second dragon at Northwind Summit, but the first one (from which I got the soul) was a regular low-level "plain" Dragon, and the second one, which didn't do the burning-disintegration thing, and didn't give me a soul, was a Blood Dragon. I got bones and loot, but the dead Blood Dragon just lay there, intact.

I tried leaving the cell with Giselle and returning. Nothing. Finally shouted him off the mountain, which at least gave us a small measure of satisfaction. :D

Besides which, I have gotten two plain Dragons at Autumn Watch and gotten souls twice, and the same at Arcwind Point (two Dragons, two souls.)

I'm going to go to a lair where Giselle hasn't visited yet (Dragontooth Crater) and see what happens there. If the soul absorption is indeed glitching, I'm going to reload back to the last known correct "soul absorption" (Sahloknir.) It's only going back a couple of hours of gameplay. But I won't do it unless it appears to be a consistent glitch.
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Sakiri
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Jarl
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Sounds right.

The respawns that don't give souls look like the dragons I'm killing but named "dragon".

Like it has the Elder Dragon skin, but named Dragon(last time this happened).
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Rick
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Jarl
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Well, as Bram says and to reiterate what
I originally said......on my vanilla game YES it absolutely does work like that.

Further....as I already said....I do not believe its a "bug"( meaning coding fault) it is simply the way the game handles respawns.

As I said...it also would make perfect sense if it was programmed deliberately like that.......if you've had that dragon soul already you can't get it again from it being reanimated. If its a new type of dragon....then yes you can.

I am basing this on HARD FACT because I have seen it myself!

BUT........maybe its buggy also.....since all complex programming in Beth games is prone to it.

However, if youre running modded.....all bets are off eh!

We don't normally kill enough dragons fast enough to really get good comparisons......but with this Dragoncide round its gonna show up one way or another.......it would be good if we could nail the suspicion once and for all!
Edited by Rick, Jul 22 2016, 03:31 AM.
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Rafer
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Benjamin was killed today by Captain Hagrar in Broken Oar Grotto. It was quite surprising since he had very few close calls. That big steel war hammer did him in, though.

Final scoring:
7 Regular Dragons = 700
2 Blood Dragons = 400
3 Frost Dragons = 900
2 Named Dragons = 1800
16 unlocked words of power = 1600
6 Dragon Priest Masks = 3000
Subtotal = 8400
Expert multiplier 1.25 for a grand total of 10,500

I burned through 33 hours and 28 minutes. It was a lot of fun! Best of luck to the survivors!
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Grits
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Thane
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Nooo, sorry to hear it! I have had to flee from Captain Hargar more than once (not in Jonna's game, she hasn't gone there). Great game! Wow, look at all those masks and unlocked words! Woo!
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Areial
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Et'Ada
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Awee Rafer.... sorry to hear that, but dang good score!
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glargg
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Jarl
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Rick
Jul 22 2016, 03:21 AM
Well, as Bram says and to reiterate what
I originally said......on my vanilla game YES it absolutely does work like that.

Further....as I already said....I do not believe its a "bug"( meaning coding fault) it is simply the way the game handles respawns.

As I said...it also would make perfect sense if it was programmed deliberately like that.......if you've had that dragon soul already you can't get it again from it being reanimated. If its a new type of dragon....then yes you can.

I am basing this on HARD FACT because I have seen it myself!

BUT........maybe its buggy also.....since all complex programming in Beth games is prone to it.

However, if youre running modded.....all bets are off eh!

We don't normally kill enough dragons fast enough to really get good comparisons......but with this Dragoncide round its gonna show up one way or another.......it would be good if we could nail the suspicion once and for all!
Yes, I agree, if it had been the same, but this was a different kind of dragon!

The first dragon killed at the lair was a regular "Dragon." The second one, which yielded no soul, and did not do the disintegration effect, was a "Blood Dragon."

That was why I considered it a glitch of some kind.

In any case, it seems to have been a one-time thing, because Giselle successfully killed and absorbed a dragon elsewhere since then. :)
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Grits
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Glad to hear it isn’t persisting, glargg.

Jonna’s game has developed a few worrisome quirks. After being disarmed at Arcwind Point she occasionally loses her ability to use her weapons. Quitting and reloading has fixed it so far. Also most of the animals she kills fall straight down through the ground. Yikes. She has lost a lot of hard-won bear pelts that way.
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glargg
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Jarl
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Grits
Jul 22 2016, 03:04 PM
Glad to hear it isn’t persisting, glargg.

Jonna’s game has developed a few worrisome quirks. After being disarmed at Arcwind Point she occasionally loses her ability to use her weapons. Quitting and reloading has fixed it so far. Also most of the animals she kills fall straight down through the ground. Yikes. She has lost a lot of hard-won bear pelts that way.
Well, that's no fun. :smash:

Here's hoping we get through this before the wheels come completely off!
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Brambleberry
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I just got to the part where I needed to rent the attic room and I couldn't help but think to myself, "Damnit Delphine, don't you know I'm in a competition I don't have time for your bullshit!" :lmao:
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glargg
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Brambleberry
Jul 22 2016, 05:16 PM
I just got to the part where I needed to rent the attic room and I couldn't help but think to myself, "Damnit Delphine, don't you know I'm in a competition I don't have time for your bullshit!" :lmao:
Yeah, one of my characters got so fed up with Delphine that she shouted her off the side of the mountain at High Hrothgar after the "peace conference"! :D

It didn't help any, though. You can't kill that one. :angry:
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FreeWitch
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You know ... I have YET to have a character that could stomach Delphine. I'm hoping my character Rune can get through this quest because it's important for her. I have never been able to finish the main questline because my girls are so done with Delphine by the second meeting they have zero desire to continue. Unless they can beat her sensless which isn't an option :( Although shouting her off the side of a mountain my be just what they need. Thanks for the idea glargg. I may just have to steal it from you LOL.

Rafer - SO sorry to hear. Good job though!

Jolea - update. She's still alive! Level 12. I'll give a more in-depth update probably tomorrow. She's filled out a shout, killed a couple more dragons. I don't want to jinx her but she's doing really well. I am still not a fan of this play style but I'm glad I tried it out and gave it a chance, a *real* chance, instead of just messing around. She's not used one magic spell or made one potion! She's very poor though going this route. It doesn't help that any decent equipment she has she's had to buy LOL.
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Brambleberry
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Jarl
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Freewitch

When you're done with the competition you can try The Paarthurnax Dilemma mod. Keepy your Paarthy and put Delphine in her proper place!
Edited by Brambleberry, Jul 23 2016, 10:51 AM.
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Rick
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I am seriously considering asking the Contessa to take at look at this...starting Friday 29th. Giving her two weeks.

But

I have to know,,because with the argy bargy before kick off I still do not know what I am allowed to let us do in crafting!

I THINK it is "craft as much as you like" PROVIDING the materials are obtained initially from dangerous situations. So we could craft many dwarven bows to raise smithing....but the dwarven metals must come from dwarven buildings. Iron must be mined etc.....so basically it just means "NO PURCHASING CRAFTING SUPPLIES" is that correct?

Same for alchemy......brew as much as you like to raise the skill.....but not by purchasing the raw supplies! Is that correct?

What about enchanting? I can't see a way to get enough soul gems except by purchase....but filling empty ones by soul trap on enemies would add the required 'risk' element?

Please let me know before Friday becsuse I have to decide if Adella's play will be viable (she might have Lydia as a follower....but that is all, and Legendary is always tough when you go nose to snout with landed dragons!)
Edited by Rick, Jul 23 2016, 10:44 AM.
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Areial
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Rick, I know they are lower level to start but soul gem's are in abundance in Dwemer ruins... That's how my Battlemages get them.. Dwemer metal's for selling or smithing.. and soul gem's for enchanting..
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Rick
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Thanks Areial, but I will still need the um' official view or if others would like to add to Areial thus building up a concensus as to what should happen.

Although I doubt I could harvest enough soul gems even from four or five Dwemer ruins to reach master enchanter.....enchanting rises real fast early on, but like all skills slows right down near the top.

From Adella's stats...... to reach master enchanter required 300 enchantments...therefore soul gems. Alftand for example had just 25 automaton kills ( ok Lydia did maybe another 7)

Alchemy required approx 1000 potions/poisons mixed

Smithing (only at 85 right now) required approx 500 weapon /armour made.

Thats a LOT of materials gathering! Pretty sobering!
Edited by Rick, Jul 23 2016, 12:50 PM.
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Areial
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Et'Ada
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Not that they are fun to deal with... but anywhere there are Necromancers.. their are soul gems. Azura's Star... Kill bandit's, absorb soul, enchant ...rinse and repeat.. I can't remember the fort, but it has an enchanter.. if you use Azura's star ( black ) kill the bandit's one at a time with a bow of soul trap, run back to enchanter...enchant.. go kill another bandit... rinse..repeat.. thus you are "putting the character at hazard to craft an item". You just have to be good enough to kill one at a time.. specially in mob's... good poison helps. Have a couple of Black Soul Gem's handy..just in case.. or use them to begin with...their are few enough for sale that I don't think buying one or two isn't allowable..only "waiting" or sleeping and returning to the vendor on reset would really be using a cheat...or carriage riding from town to town to buy them all...waiting for a reset and doing it again.

But that's just my opinion.
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Rick
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Nah hon, that would not nearly do it. Kill a single bandit run off to enchant it somewhere and get back for the next one.....it would take all 60 hours just to raise enchanting. Black soul gem still only give one soul to use and its not a reuseable gem. So I would need 300 black soul gems to do that! That would be like go to a dwemer ruin..pick up one piece of metal smelt it and make one bow at the nearest facility (miles away)...then run back for the next piece of metal.

I know crafting is meant to be an aching slow process (always is) ....but all that slows it to an untenable crawl...simply not doable in the time allowed.

My personal preference for realism would be to allow empty soul gem purchase (on top of the few ready filled finds in ruins etcs), but then have to use a soul trap weapon on draugr and other foes to fill them....thus adding the 'exploration and risk' element!

An average tomb like Ustengrav will only yield around 25 draugr souls. Filling 300 gems with undead souls is almost a competition objective in itself!

I can live with a 'Not purchasing raw materials' stipulation for smithing and alchemy....its difficult but fair.
But enchanting is not feasible if relying on a couple of dozen gems from each dungeon,,assuming every necromage and dwarven machine has a gem on it,,which they don't...(and Grand soul gems need draugr deathlord kills to fill them)

What is the thought on this?

How is everyone else tackling this on say master?
Edited by Rick, Jul 23 2016, 01:37 PM.
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Grits
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Rick, on Master I am not using Enchanting. With Smithing and Alchemy I am using found materials and leveling as I go, not waiting for a stockpile. Smithing and Alchemy are both around the same level as Jonna’s combat skills right now.

When I’ve used Enchanting as the only craft skill on Master, the Black Star is a big help. Again it doesn’t produce a stockpile, but using it as I go levels Enchanting along with my combat skills. As Areial said, hitting Dwemer ruins and naughty mage lairs fills up the loot sack with soul gems. Poor Jonna cannot use Dwemer metals, though, since she is going up the left branch of Smithing only to Advanced Armors.

This is of course not the optimum way to do it, but it’s the way I feel happy about a character using crafting vs. me as the player pushing skills. It’s how I play the game through all of the levels while crafting skills increase gradually through natural gameplay. I doubt that Jonna will reach 100 in her crafts before 60 hours are up, but that is the gamble. After all, choosing a difficulty level that is reasonable for the player within the given time is part of the contest! :P
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Areial
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I decided to go with Expert... mostly because my time is so limited I won't have the time to get even Master to a reasonable safe skill level.

I craft as I go.. so those style's work for me... I don't accumulate a bunch of stuff and then mass produce..

Edit: ...specially on Legendary and Master, I craft as I go...raise the "core" skills are close as possible
Edited by Areial, Jul 23 2016, 01:45 PM.
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