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Oh the Games we Play; DiD Competitions, mini-games, Fun runs
Topic Started: Jul 30 2016, 10:57 PM (3,278 Views)
Areial
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Et'Ada
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I have not a clue... I have never gotten Illusion up high enough to caste in on high level enemies. I was going to ask what video..but I must have posted my previous post right after Richard.

But as Sakiri said...you can get your magic cost to zero and then stun-lock just about everything.. I don't know that I have read anyone stun-locking a dragon...but... that's a big maybe.

The biggest problem I see is the perk's...they will be spread thin... I know spellsword or battlemage will be the way I go...early game. Armor plus alteration= staying alive a second or so longer.
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Rick
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Jarl
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I have brought this forward because its too important to be washed over

Hmmm....yes Fortify Restoration potions are intended to Fortify Restoration spells....ostensibly.

But a Fortify Destruction Potion might (not tried it) boost a fire enchantment on a sword?

Just as Fortify Restoration would boost bracers of Alchemy from 15% to 18% for a minute enabling slightly stronger potions.....or boost Fortify One Handed from 20% to 24% for a minute.

Its ALL cross connected.....we just haven't thought about it yet!

I'm thinking that drinking ANY one potion can't be dubbed exploit...its what they are there for....ALL of them. Doing the Loop thing is a different process and involves equipping and unequipping fortify apparals whilst taking and making potions in a deliberate cycle.

Is potion drinking prior to fighting to boost one handed different from drinking say a Fortify Health potion.

And is using a Fortify Restoration potion before brewing a mixture any different to drinking a Fortify Enchanting potion before using an arcane enchanter?

you can't ban one without questioning the other!

Please lets not have 'knee jerk' reaction to the question because it says 'Restoration Potion'......remember single potions of this are not powerful and the boosts are relatively small.


Edited by Rick, Aug 19 2016, 08:36 PM.
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Kane
Overlord
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Fortify resto loop breaks the game mechanics and makes you an overpowered god that ruins the fairness of the game.

Drinking a single potion before doing something is an intended mechanic and is perfectly acceptable.

We don't need another monster debate about something so simple.
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Rick
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Jarl
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Kane,
Yay ! Exactly....seems sensible to me, but I raise it because maybe others do not agree and we do operate on a concensus basis, in comp at least.

If Richard backs this, then thats pretty cut n'dried. The logic is sound.
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Areial
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Et'Ada
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Work's for me too... Richard agree's and no one else bounces up.. I'm good with his decision.
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Kane
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Well alright then! :lmao:
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Sakiri
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Jarl
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If by overpowered you mean "impact stunlock" sure.

Destruction spells on legendary and master tickle.
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Sakiri
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Jarl
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Areial
Aug 3 2016, 09:33 AM
I have not a clue... I have never gotten Illusion up high enough to caste in on high level enemies. I was going to ask what video..but I must have posted my previous post right after Richard.

But as Sakiri said...you can get your magic cost to zero and then stun-lock just about everything.. I don't know that I have read anyone stun-locking a dragon...but... that's a big maybe.

The biggest problem I see is the perk's...they will be spread thin... I know spellsword or battlemage will be the way I go...early game. Armor plus alteration= staying alive a second or so longer.
Impact works on dragons
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Kane
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Sakiri
Aug 3 2016, 12:13 PM
Destruction spells on legendary and master tickle.
I :rofl: 'ed.
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Richard
Thane
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What the hell am I supposed to do here? Why does my name keep popping up? :scared:

Oh, decide the thing that I don't know about? Yeah... What Kane said.

Kane
 
Fortify resto loop breaks the game mechanics and makes you an overpowered god that ruins the fairness of the game.

Drinking a single potion before doing something is an intended mechanic and is perfectly acceptable.



Areial, I don't go with the impact perk, so I don't get that stun-lock thing. Plus, most of the times I'm using Perkus Maximus or SkyRe and they remove/modify that perk.
I usually just put my perks in the magic skill trees, rarely putting in the armor or weapon skill trees. Works for me, to be honest.


Sakiri, I don't know about you, but I usually see good results when using destruction spells on master. Not on legendary, but on master. As I said before, I never take the 'impact' perk and my spells still feel overpowered, with or without mods.
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Grits
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Thane
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I’ve often read complaints about Destruction being useless at the higher damage settings and/or overpowered due to stun-lock abuse. I haven’t had either experience. I tend to pair Destruction with Alchemy rather than Enchanting, though, which runs against the purist Skyrim mage skill mindset. I am delightfully free of that limitation. :D

My biggest complaint is that once my mage has blown up the entire room, then he has to compulsively look under every shelf and all over the place in case he missed a book or soul gem. (I’m talking about you, Darnand.) Not to mention quest items that get knocked into the next Hold. Oh my gosh, what’s the quest where you have to collect those bottles of something that are placed on pedestals? I think there are three of them. I could have murdered him during that one.

Dang, you guys are making me want to play! :D
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Brambleberry
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Jarl
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Holy moly I've missed a lot while being away today driving miss Daisy to lunch and waiting 3 hours because, well Miss Daisy kept dialing the wrong phone number to say she was done with lunch (poor mum 88 y.o. messes with the memory and the digits).

For what it's worth I have no problem with taking a single potion prior to a fight or performing a crafting action.

@Areial - I can attest that one does in fact Stun Lock a dragon with dual cast and the impact perk.

:cheers:
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Grits
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Thane
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I think that using a Fortify Restoration potion to boost crafting enchantments is covered under “no exploits.” It’s also covered under “no Restoration looping.” To me the intent of the rule is clear, and I’m not interested in muddying the water with clauses and exceptions. If anything we could go back to glargg’s version from before this round. Simply and elegantly put. :)
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Areial
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Et'Ada
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Bram, I guess my style is fling a couple spells and run in sword blazing. Pure mage hit them hard and let my follower finish them off close up.
Edited by Areial, Aug 3 2016, 04:44 PM.
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Rick
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Jarl
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Grits hon...not sure why you think that "muddys the water"

In anycase drinking one potion is not an exploit...unless you rule the same for ALL potions, and used as I described there is NO looping as I am sure you can see..... :)
(post 24 explains this also)

Edited by Rick, Aug 19 2016, 08:40 PM.
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Grits
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Thane
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Rick, take another look at what I said. It’s not what you’ve represented in your post.

The Fortify Restoration potion exploit is forbidden not because it's a potion but because it's an exploit.

The discussion muddies the water because we've already had it and we already have the rule.
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Sakiri
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Jarl
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I'd have no problems sucking down *a* potion before making a suit of crafting gear, but when you loop it, it's stupid.

USLEEP broke the fortify resto loop anyway, iirc.

As for destruction, maybe you decided that either you:

Enjoy trying to get spell costs to nothing so you can keep nuking forever

Enjoy sucking down fortify destruction potions

Modding gameplay

But I don't. And vanilla destruction magic, unless you go the "buff alchemy and enchanting" direction, hits like a wet noodle.

Part of the problem is certain enemy resistance. Part of the problem is base damage. And part of the problem is that I can very easily get gear that makes me hit like a truck and never touch alchemy with a weapon, even without smithing.There's no readily available equipment that increases destruction magic(it's all a pain to get), just reduce casting costs.

This leads to tedious combat.

I shouldn't have to mod the game to make offensive nukes not suck, nor should I have to rely on crafting or summons. Add a follower and it gets worse because those guys love standing in my fire.

It just feels bad.
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Sakiri
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Jarl
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That said, illusion is friggin op.
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Rick
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Jarl
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Grits you seem to be confusing taking the potion with performing the Loop exploit....its not the same thing. In fact....."Fortify Restoration Potion Exploite" does not exist!

Doing the Loop exploit with it exists, sure....we ban that...no question. But just taking the potion is not in itself any kind of exploit.....its a vanilla provision.

To be clear....
There is NO fortify alchemy potion.....and that is NOT what the Fortify Restoration potion is doing ok. It is doing what it is supposed to do...which is boost spells.

It boosts the fortify SPELL on your fortify crafting apparals.

You could as easily take a Fortify Restoration potion before wearing your Fortify Smithing Apparals to get a small boost on those too...for a direct smithing improvement at the armourers bench! Exploit ?

Also....that same potion will increase fortify one and two handed apparals....which is not even crafting!

Or in fact.....Just like a destruction potion boosts the spell on your enchanted weapon making it more fiery or more frosty etc. (e.g. Taking a fortify destruction potion then using an enchanted sword on an opponent would be an identical "exploite" By Boosting the items enchantment.)

So therefore......I disagree that taking a single potion prior to crafting is actually an exploite...


I must also disagree that we have already had this discussion and formulated a rule for it....that is not true.

We HAVE had a discussion about the "Fortify Restoration Loop"....none of us allow it and none of us even use it in any of our plays. Ruled...OUT.

We have not discussed the idea of drinking a single potion for its immediate effect only!

FWIW....I am not attempting to invalidate your opinion Grits....we can all think what we like...free countries and all that, but I have explained why its "not the Exploit Loop" that you seem to think it is, as best as I can.


Still love ya :hugs:
Edited by Rick, Aug 3 2016, 07:11 PM.
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Grits
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Thane
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No worries, Rick. I stand by my decision, and I don’t expect to convince you. Doesn’t mean I like you any less. :)

By the way, this bug/exploit/secret game mechanic is not available to PC players who use the Unofficial Patch. In our games the Fortify Restoration potions increase the magnitude of Restoration spells, as described in the game. They do not increase other Fortify skill enchantments.

I’m curious, since you can also make potions that fortify your combat skills, how will that order work? Take Fortify Restoration potion, put on enchanted Fortify Archery gear, then take Fortify Archery potion? After all, if it's an intended game mechanic, why not use it?
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