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Oh the Games we Play; DiD Competitions, mini-games, Fun runs
Topic Started: Jul 30 2016, 10:57 PM (3,277 Views)
Rick
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Jarl
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IDK Grits
I presume the two fortify potions will stack with the first drunk pushung up one step then the secind drunk increasing that total...I'll let you know.
Infact I could try it on my smithing first. A fortify Restoration to boost the smithing gears enchantment...plus a fortify smithing potion to raise the whole lot...we will soon see if they stack.

Yeah I said it before....who ever makes those unofficial patches are real kill joys....they took all teeth out of "Marked for Death" why for gods sake?

I know you get tons of bug fixes with those patches thats the good...but they monkey with stuff they don't need to....thats the bad.

Thats why they are UNOFFICIAL patches.....not Bethesda ones.

Ya have to take the rough with the smooth.....I get fortify Restoration and great MfD shouts.....but a buggy game with loads of stuff not fixed. Shrug!
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Sakiri
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That's because we're pretty sure that resto looping is a bug.

In previous games, we had spells we could cast to fortify attributes and I believe those were in Restoration, so it'd have made sense to affect those, but we don't have them here in Skyrim.

Iirc, looping like this affected alchemy in Oblivion at least too, with fortify intelligence. I know people that would brew stupid fortify intelligence pots to make ridiculously expensive potions to sell.
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Rick
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Grits I'm sure that the Fortify Restoration improvement to the smithing gear did stack with the raise from the smithing potion.

However....even after all of that....her AR with a glass shield was still only 1207.....Without using Restoration potions in tandem with the smithing gear the AR came to...976 So the Restoration potion stacking only added 226 to her armour or about an extra 25%

compare....with no Restoration potion malarky at all ....my best ever armour in Dragonscsle with shield was 1489 !

So I have to say on balance as far as armour goes I'm not blown away!

Her glass bow of 58 damage increased to 69 using only smithing apparals. Taking a 60%Restoration potion pushed it to 76...then taking a smithing potion of 175% pushed it to 185.....again I have had better.

How come I can do better even without the special potion....well because my smithing skill is only about 90....not maxed.

I must admit I was expecting more.....but then Fortify Restoration of 60% is not a god potion....it does not raise your AR or bow damage by 60%...in fact barely 25% by the looks of it....about the same as one archery perk.

Hmmmm.......I am starting to think I would happily go without such a "Bonus" on console if I could get the PC bug fixes bonus that I can't have....like re-spawning plants. Do you know what a pain it is when as an Alchemist, you've harvested all the blue mountain flower locally....and it won't grow back?

Ooooh....but maybe...with console mods on the horizon....Unofficial patches for Xbox hmmm.....but not if I lose my MfD shout....

Saki....again to be clear....NO Looping has been done...I have been very careful on that...but yes the Restoration potion did boost my potion making while in effect....as expected.

Aaaaand....I've lost another five hours experimenting and shopping for alchemy ingredients.
Edited by Rick, Aug 3 2016, 11:08 PM.
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glargg
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This has all been a fun read. I have nothing useful to add about restoration potions. :D

Going back a bit, when I suggested the CoW and all associated quests, I didn't mean to suggest that any particular combat skills or attire should be mandatory. I was not suggesting a "pure mage" competition, so there's nothing in the idea that precludes using weapons and armor.

The idea is just that the points would be based on the CoW. Advance your skills however you will, qualify for the Master quests, and complete them for points.
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Rick
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Yep, Adella does the CoW as a ranger in armour.......how so.....surely its all about being a Mage?

Well....it CAN be viewed differently.....like you are a travelling merc.....see the college is in bother and go to help out....not intending to get all wizardy at all!

Of course being this Dragonborn of legend helps becsuse you've got at least some kind of hocus pocus going on ;)

How can you justify being arch Mage at the end?

Well easy....as your told its for your service to the college....a titular position only....so you leave Tolfdir to run it all as the "real" arch magister.

Come on...how can you have a top mage position filled by someone who can just about cast a light spell?

Well, like this.....do you think all auto garages are owned and run by actual mechanics....I can tell you several that are not. As the top dog in the company...thats what you pay the underlings to do.

So I figure....being Arch Mage would USUALLY be filled by a very capable mage....but does not have to be....the Arch Mage is not expected to zap anything...he /she is an administrator and figurehead.

So....yep....justified....for me....to me....by me :)

Plus btw....the Contessa always ends up getting her elegant mits on a few low level fun spells.....we've had arguments about it....she always wins...I say fine...get on with it then, but don't come crying to me when yer stupid candlelight spell doesn't scare off a Deathlord.
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Rick
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........ANNOUNCING........

Use of a single Restoration potion prior to performing alchemy has been approved.....

HOWEVER,

I have considered at length Grits revelation that pc players do not get the boost to fortify apparals from the Restoration potion due to being fuxed by USLEEP.

Well it is not my fault if you choose to use an unofficial patch!
BUT SERIOUSLY......it would seem I have an advantage and that is not fair.

Therefore I have decided NOT to use the Restoration potions.
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Kane
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By that logic, console users should be relegated to only using MfD once per enemy.
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Rick
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Kane,
Well....there needs to be give and take.....
You see....pc players are stuffed with MfD due to USLEEP

BUT you do NOT HAVE to install USLEEP for competition use!
It is possible to use a TOTALLY vanilla Skyrim held in a separate profile
See...I'm starting to learn

But pc players do not want to manage on totally vanilla...because Usleep fixes myriads of bugs....which as a console player I still have to cope with !

So.....bottom line....yeah...I get a better MfD and as it happens I do restrict myself in fairness, to a single three word shout of MfD, even at dragons (so no stacking).

I may also, as we agreed, use a Fortify Restoration potion....but again in fairness I choose not to (not that it made much difference really).

So I am gimping my play a bit to level the field....but hang on a minute....what benefits does USLEEP actually confer on pc then.

So I've been looking it up on nexus. Well, ok most of it is minor corrections to textures, dialogue, niff naff. However, it also fixes questlines that get stuck and doors that may not open and other little game spoilers that I still gotta work around. So actually Usleep users are getting plenty of payback for me having my MfD or a 20% armour boost from a potion!

But while we are talking USLEEP there is more!
Something that really got under my skin when I read it....


Who can recall a fair while back, the long debates I had with some of our 'old guard' about the so called "Extra damage perk" which is randomly assigned to npcs giving them upto 3x extra damage which on Master and Legendary often results in an unfair one hit instant player char death.

Many argued that it was a fair game mechanic because it was built in, and I should stop whinging...some refused to believe it even existed....a few agreed it was real and not fair.....but the only evidence was a wiki page about npc buffs.

Not being on pc....I have no reason to examine fixes!

But while perusing USLEEP today to see exactly what it did do.....what did I find at
V2.1.3(2015-07-12) "magic, perk and skill fixes"
At Bullet point 14 hmmm?

Yes....an entry explaining how USLEEP fixes an engine bug which DOUBLES the already devastating extra damage perk.

Ulda got killed by this damn bug....no one thought to say 'Oh yeah Rick your fears are well founded cos we even have a bug fix on pc to stop it'

This was a big deal at the time and resulted in the loss of Ulda's DiD likeness with nearly a couple of hundred hours on her....

With this evidence from the patch that pc players use....

I could have explained the huge abnormal npc archer damage and realised it really WAS a bug.....meaning a re-load would have been in order, instead of her death.

No one told me at the time, and best of all the guys who could have said something didn't even have to face that killer bug....cos their Usleep fixed it.

Guess how I feel about that.....

Anyhow.....we press on

Without Restoration potions, Adella has AR 938 at level 40
Mace 259....bow 265

We are ready to progress the MQ and stand outside Ustengrav to get the horn.

We will not even get a second place finish in this round
I have failed us both. :(
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glargg
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Well, that's interesting, Rick. It explains your experience, and it also explains why the other (mostly PC) players were not seeing what you were seeing.

I've never played without the unofficial patch, and have never read the whole list of fixes. I know it's pretty extensive.

And, no, I'm not going to create a profile without it. Too many mods (including most graphics mods) depend on the patch. :)
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Areial
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Errr What Glargg said..

Edit: I was thinking... yeah now we're all in trouble!

A Twist for our "Back to School" competition,

As our characters "learn" ..they go up in difficulty... so it would work like this:

LvL 1 every one is at Novice
soon as one hit's
LvL 10 kick it up to Apprentice
soon as one hit's
LvL 20 Kick it up to Adept
soon as one hit's
LvL 30 kick it up to Expert
Soon as one hit's
LvL 40 kick it up to Master
soon as one hit's
LvL 50 kick it up to Legendary

This would make one play a very tactical game, because if you lvl the wrong thing's first, yer S.O.L. It's an idea...
Edited by Areial, Aug 5 2016, 07:34 AM.
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glargg
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Aug 5 2016, 12:31 AM
Errr What Glargg said..

Edit: I was thinking... yeah now we're all in trouble!

A Twist for our "Back to School" competition,

As our characters "learn" ..they go up in difficulty... so it would work like this:

LvL 1 every one is at Novice
soon as one hit's
LvL 10 kick it up to Apprentice
soon as one hit's
LvL 20 Kick it up to Adept
soon as one hit's
LvL 30 kick it up to Expert
Soon as one hit's
LvL 40 kick it up to Master
soon as one hit's
LvL 50 kick it up to Legendary

This would make one play a very tactical game, because if you lvl the wrong thing's first, yer S.O.L. It's an idea...
Wow. I like that "Twist"!

Might want to lower the "learning" points slightly, since it's really hard to ever get to 50 if you're playing at low difficulty (as you would be, starting out.) This is because combat skills advance really slowly when you can one-hit enemies, and they do you little damage.

You can easily test this out by starting a sword/board character, going through Helgen at Legendary, and then doing it again at Novice. At high difficulty, I find that I usually hit level 2 by the time I leave the cave, whereas at Novice, I generally will only get one measly skill-rise (Sneak, in going past the bear.)

How about:

Level 1 - Novice
Level 8 - Apprentice
Level 16 - Adept
Level 24 - Expert
Level 32 - Master
Level 40 - Legendary

Edit: Thinking about it again, I guess maybe that's exactly the "challenge" you were aiming at! So maybe your levels are better. :)
Edited by glargg, Aug 5 2016, 02:47 PM.
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Kane
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Interesting concept. It would also put everyone on a even keel for the first 30 levels or so. I might miss the next competition, but I'll definitely be checking in on it!
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Areial
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Glargg, yeah that IS the challenge of lower difficulty, leveling. ..you have to be careful, then as you get higher level and difficulty. ..you're S.O.L. if you didn't pay attention and level tactically.

Cause yeah at Legendary you can get 5 to 6 lvls in Helgen if you are really good...ask Sah... at Novice your lucky to leavel at lvl 2....
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Kane
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I can attest to that. The last time I played on Novice, I didn't hit level 3 until I was in BFB.
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Rick
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What the heck are you guys talking about?

Boy oh boy have ya got it wrong......

Oh, but I won't spoil the fun.....I'm just gonna watch the confusion as the levelling you expect doesn't happen.

I know exactly how Sah hits level 5....she's a pro-leveller

But...hang on.....I play Legendary from the get go......what level do you think Adella is at reaching Bleakfalls Barrow hmm?

You see...Glargg's assertion is only half correct....yes you do more hitting at legendary, but combat is MUCH slower and FAR more cautious. Running away is a big part of early Legendary play!

The fact is that on lower difficulty you acquire new targets faster....clear more dungeons, and that more than makes up for killing each individual foe with less strikes.

Just one thing!
What does S.O.L mean?
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Sakiri
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Side note, skill progression is related to damage dealt and damage taken. Get half your health knocked off, you gain more skill progression than a ton of tiny hits.
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Sakiri
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Oh. S.O.L.

Shit outta luck.
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glargg
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Rick
Aug 5 2016, 07:22 PM
What the heck are you guys talking about?

Boy oh boy have ya got it wrong......

Oh, but I won't spoil the fun.....I'm just gonna watch the confusion as the levelling you expect doesn't happen.

I know exactly how Sah hits level 5....she's a pro-leveller

But...hang on.....I play Legendary from the get go......what level do you think Adella is at reaching Bleakfalls Barrow hmm?

You see...Glargg's assertion is only half correct....yes you do more hitting at legendary, but combat is MUCH slower and FAR more cautious. Running away is a big part of early Legendary play!

The fact is that on lower difficulty you acquire new targets faster....clear more dungeons, and that more than makes up for killing each individual foe with less strikes.

Just one thing!
What does S.O.L mean?
I've played at all different difficulties, Rick. I know about the taking longer and the running away.

The simple fact is that combat skills level more slowly at low difficulties. At Novice, I could go through BFB and kill Mirmulnir at level 3. (I've done it at level 1, and at Adept, but that's a special case.) So it doesn't matter that you can face more foes; you level your combat skills more slowly.

The "challenge" that we are talking about lies in the fact that, while combat skills rise slowly at low difficulty, other skills don't. So, playing at Novice, one could be at level 10 with something like One-Hand skill of 18, Block of 20, Archery of 18, Sneak of 40, Alchemy of 50, Lockpicking of 40, etc. (I'm just wild-guessing the numbers, but you get the idea.)

At low difficulty, your combat skills fall behind your other skills (unless you do paid training.) That's fine if you stay at Novice, but then, if you have to turn up the difficulty, you're suddenly facing level 10 enemies with the equivalent of level 2 skills.
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Rick
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Saki....only for direct combat skills...'natch. Armour skill melee skills block and bow....but trying to raise them all at once will get you killed....the perks will be spread to thin to aid the cause, wise warriors specialise even if it takes longer to level.

On high difficulty....you run into more of those foes who can take half your health....which is good good skill rises....but very bad if you're expecting to walk away.

Remember, once the kill cam program detects that you can be possibly killed in a next hit...it takes control and Bam! Goodnight. At least that's how it works on vanilla.

Anyhow then....if Sah enters....lets see if you are right.....if you are she will be held back from early level rises.....but somehow....I think not :)

Glargg....well lets see! :)
But in anycase We fight according to our actual capability level......you'd have to be mad to purposely enter high level foe domains until your skills had reached the appropriate level.

Which in a sense is what all the craft grinding on Legendary is all about. If we had poor bow and one handed for instance I Simply wouldn't put Adella up against an Elder dragon, no matter what her theoretical 'level' was....its pointless guaranteed death!

But aside from levelling issues....what is the objective for the next round, or is it not yet decided?
Edited by Rick, Aug 5 2016, 11:07 PM.
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Areial
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S.O.L. = Shit Outa Luck

School ( back to... In the U.S. most school's restart in September)... point's for each CoW quest...side, etc... but also extra point's for each Magic School Mastered.. meaning finished the Ritual spell quest for that school.

You may use any "skill" or Craft, but the only one's to gain point's are the "School" ones...

Meaning If I want to have a Spellsword that uses 1h and light armor...and I get them very high it matters not, except in my "game plan"

I picked the leveling difficulty movement for a reason...The challenge is more to keep yourself balanced than just to lvl up the skills. We all play a particular way, with a particular comfort zone... this is meant to get us all out of that comfort zone. Rick you play on Legendary.. you know the in''s and out's... Glargg generally play's on Novice or Apprentice...and know's those in's and out's... I play in the middle at Adept and ( when the game has my full attention) I know exactly how to play my chosen style for best effect.

We all need to step outside our zones and try new-ish things... it can be a fun challenge... or a complete disaster...depend's on the way ya look at it.

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