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Resurrecting the topic of the week: abortion
Topic Started: Jun 3 2015, 12:21 AM (195 Views)
Larsland
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Hey y'all, Wednesday is a good a day as any for our topic of the week segment. Here we highlight a major current event or topical issue, and discuss our viewpoints on the subject.

Let's get some discussion going then. What do you all think of abortion? Should it be legal? Banned? Allowed only in certain circumstances?
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Antonia and Brookwood
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It should be consensual between both parents. So, if the mother wants an abortion, the father must agree to it, or vice-versa. There should, if an agreement can't be reached, be a way to prevent unfair treatment. Say a father and mother get into a divorce because the mother wished to keep the baby, but the father didn't. The father should not be forced to pay child services if he tried to convince the mother otherwise, or attempted to reach a legal resolution. On the flip side, parent's had a child upon the father's desire to not have an abortion, if there is a divorce, guidance is fully ceded to him.

Of course these are solutions in the event of a divorce, if there is no divorce, other options should be available.

That being said, abortion should be allowed in any circumstance, on demand if really desired, BUT must be consensual between mother and father, or advised if the family as a whole could not fiscally support the decision to have the child.
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The Altarian Empire
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I would say abortions should be legal up until fetal viability/third trimester, with the exception of cases where danger is posed to the mother. Past fetal viability you might as well give birth anyways, because that parasite isn't going to come out easy. Statistically speaking, most abortions are conducted during the first trimester, anyways. It shouldn't be an issue for anyone "choice-wise" assuming all individuals put a responsible amount of thought into their decision to abort from the moment of conception/observation of pregnancy.

Scorp raises some interesting points on law revolving around familial dissent over the decision to abort that I admittedly have never really considered: I need time to think to myself about this before I can offer an opinion on it.
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Antonia and Brookwood
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^Forgot to include the whole "how far along can this take place" thing in mine. Thanks, Alti.
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Larsland
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I think abortion should be a mother's decision. I don't consider a fetus to be anything more than a part of its mother's body, so I consider it to be legally guided by her natural rights. I think the idea fathers should have a right to have a say in an abortion is as absurd as saying men should have rights to when their wives clip their fingernails.

Further I don't think it ought to be the role of the state to regulate a procedure like this.
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Triodard and Florard
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I'm generally pro-choice. I consider a fetus a human with all human rights, but just in the same way someone cannot be forced to give blood to support another person's life, I don't think a woman should be forced to sustain its life with her body.
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The Altarian Empire
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After having some time to consider the legal implications of abortion that Scorp brought up, my opinion is thus: Neither parent should have an unwanted child forced upon them. Therefore, the mother should have sole legal authorization to abort, but the father should not be required to pay for child services if the mother wishes to keep the child and he is so against the idea he would rather divorce. I believe mutualism is an important aspect of marriage, so if such a situation arose (due to either spouse acting against the other's wishes - such as by secretly reverting to unprotected sex in order to conceive without the other being aware) then I think they would probably be better off divorcing, anyways.

I don't see anyone else addressing the issue of when abortion is okay - I mean, at some point the sapience-less culture of cells become just a baby inside someone's body. That's why I used fetal viability as a cutoff date.
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Larsland
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I addressed that. I said abortion is ALWAYS OK. I don't believe you EVER get to the point where you have a baby inside you, because a fetus cannot perform the basic functions required for life (such as breathing). Even where a premature birth is possible, a mother should not be forced to birth. Only through the process of birthing does a new human get created.
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The Altarian Empire
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Larsland
Jun 5 2015, 08:10 PM
I addressed that. I said abortion is ALWAYS OK. I don't believe you EVER get to the point where you have a baby inside you, because a fetus cannot perform the basic functions required for life (such as breathing). Even where a premature birth is possible, a mother should not be forced to birth. Only through the process of birthing does a new human get created.
A viable fetus can perform the basic functions required of life by definition of being a viable fetus.

Marking birth as when a new human is "created" is incredibly arbitrary. Convenient, legally speaking, but it makes no practical sense. New humans are created through a process that begins with conception and ends before birth. Birthing is simply the delivering of the final product.

By your logic, if a mother goes into labor but immediately decides to abort, it's totally acceptable to rip up that almost-a-person to get it out of the womb, but I assume you'd have issues if, assuming that baby was born but still unwanted, a doctor chopped it up into pieces and disposed of it? What is the tangible difference?
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Larsland
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"A viable fetus can perform the basic functions required of life by definition of being a viable fetus."
No it cannot. Not without a birth. Only when it goes through a birth (premature or not) does it become capable of the functions of life. If you don't birth it and remove it from the womb, it dies. That's what an abortion is.

"Marking birth as when a new human is "created" is incredibly arbitrary"
No it's not. It's the exact moment when the fetus becomes a self-sustaining and self-contained organism.

"New humans are created through a process that begins with conception and ends before birth."
So what? If I want to know the exact moment a can of baked beans is made, I'd say it's the instant it comes out of the canner. Not when the process begins, or half-way through. Until you have a full human being you have no human being.

"By your logic, if a mother goes into labor but immediately decides to abort, it's totally acceptable to rip up that almost-a-person to get it out of the womb"
Yes

"I assume you'd have issues if, assuming that baby was born but still unwanted, a doctor chopped it up into pieces and disposed of it?"
Yes

"What is the tangible difference?"
That one is a pile of baked beans, and the other is baked beans in a can. Until you have a complete human being, you have no human being.
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