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Government Proposal
Topic Started: Feb 4 2011, 02:26 AM (487 Views)
Ascienia
Known Traitor
Horak
Feb 4 2011, 02:53 PM
this draft has numerous contradictions.
several things don't make any sense, such as any senate control over the military. why give the power to disband the military in a region like this?

I get the sense that senator simply means citizen, therefore their should be an executive space and a citizen or senator space. We shouldn't be facilitating scenarios where a senate is being overruled by an emperor, because that could make the senate look like a joke. Rather Durkadurkiranistan II should communicate what tasks he is willing to delegate to the senate, so both the executive and the senate can have their separate space.

Once Durkadurkiranistan II communicates this, I will move to create a document.

I actually missed the fact about Senate being able to disband the military.
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HIM Emperor Emeritus Durk II
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Simply Irresistible
Horak
Feb 4 2011, 10:53 PM
this draft has numerous contradictions.
several things don't make any sense, such as any senate control over the military. why give the power to disband the military in a region like this?

I get the sense that senator simply means citizen, therefore their should be an executive space and a citizen or senator space. We shouldn't be facilitating scenarios where a senate is being overruled by an emperor, because that could make the senate look like a joke. Rather Durkadurkiranistan II should communicate what tasks he is willing to delegate to the senate, so both the executive and the senate can have their separate space.

Once Durkadurkiranistan II communicates this, I will move to create a document.

Yeah this is a good point that I missed.

Here are my thoughts:

The most successful user-created regions in NS (such as this one) tend to balance powers between the founder/executive and a democratic legislative. Security and the military should fall under the purview of the Cabinet/Emperor. It is vital for the region's survival to have stable and trusted leadership in those areas. And I am sure that various outside groups are working to infiltrate and subvert us as we speak.

Then there are issues such as internal affairs that should clearly be under the purview of the Senate. By internal affairs I mean things like regional cultural events, a regional university (which we don't have yet, but which would be nice to have in the future), the regional flag, etc.

Foreign Affairs should be split between the two. The executive should be able to open and close embassies (for efficiency purposes) and negotiate treaties, while the legislature's approval should be required for treaty ratification. The legislature should also have power to formally declare war.

The Senate should also be given the power to confirm cabinet appointments.

I feel like I'm forgetting something, but that's the gist of it.
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Ascienia
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Okay, maybe there should be a set of permanent cabinet (unable to be disbanded) that can be replaced by a vote of non-confidence from the Senate.

As far as balance of power goes, I have no idea, I have relatively little experience.

But I like the commissioning and I would like to see it implemented.
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Trasillia
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the way the emperor has put the roles seems more than adaquate and i feel its is just right and in terms of the balance of powers i think that is the plan that should be adopted. is someone able to put those words into a constitution?
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HIM Emperor Emeritus Durk II
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Simply Irresistible
I can give it a shot tomorrow. It'll probably need some editing as constitution writing is not my strong point. ;)
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Trasillia
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Military control and administration should be performed by the commander in chief which here i thought was the emperor.

New legislation MUST go through the senate as should any new treaties and i agree that a full declaration of war should be by popular vote.

Other internal region events could be worked into an official document
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Trasillia
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Emperor Durk II
Feb 5 2011, 05:48 AM
I can give it a shot tomorrow. It'll probably need some editing as constitution writing is not my strong point. ;)

Why thankyou majesty
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HIM Emperor Emeritus Durk II
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Simply Irresistible
What I'm thinking of doing is listing the powers given to the Emperor/cabinet explicitly, while including a clause stating that everything not given to the Emperor/cabinet is reserved for the Senate. Would make more sense that way I think.
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Trasillia
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would it not majesty, be more benificial to name the senate powers and responsibilities so as to cancel out any further confusion in the future?
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HIM Emperor Emeritus Durk II
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Simply Irresistible
You might be right about that... I'll see how I feel about it when I'm writing up the draft tomorrow. Too tired to think about it now, lol.
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Horak
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Ascienia
Feb 5 2011, 12:08 AM
Okay, maybe there should be a set of permanent cabinet (unable to be disbanded) that can be replaced by a vote of non-confidence from the Senate.

this statement is contradictory. I don't want to badger on about this, only to reinforce my original point and Durkadurkiranistan's wise follow up.

We should create separate spaces for the cabinet and citizens or senate. The idea that a cabinet member can be "voted out" sounds good on paper, but it isn't practical. First, consider what it takes to become a cabinet member. We must have faith in Durkadurkiranistan that the selected cabinet will be of the highest quality, and as such there should never be a need for them to be "voted out". Furthermore we should recognize that any improper conduct/poor performance would be a steep insult not only to the region but to Durkadurkiranistan himself, and can be handled directly by him. If someone is executing an important cabinet position poorly, we shouldn't have to wait or expect to have to organize a vote to show him the door.

I will agree with Durkadurkiranistan that a good way to connect the two is for the senate to approve his nominations. Other than that the senate should not interfere.

I will also say while I commend the speed and enthusiasm of this process, we must be conscious of the current climate. Perhaps a stronger base should be assembled first. Furthermore, saying something like "we are writing a regional constitution" is a good recruitment tool that we will lack if we push ahead too soon.

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Rappatoni
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Horak
Feb 5 2011, 07:50 AM
I will also say while I commend the speed and enthusiasm of this process, we must be conscious of the current climate. Perhaps a stronger base should be assembled first. Furthermore, saying something like "we are writing a regional constitution" is a good recruitment tool that we will lack if we push ahead too soon.

Good point, I think Durk was hoping to have this process take at least a couple weeks start to finish. It gives the Senate something to do, and it is great for recruiting, as you said.

Still, having a couple very rough preliminary drafts couldn't hurt.
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Trasillia
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Does His Excellency the War Chancellor have any suggestions to make on the idea the military administration should be left to the commander in chief (the emperor) under the direction of the War chancellor ?
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Ascienia
Known Traitor
Horak
Feb 4 2011, 11:50 PM
Ascienia
Feb 5 2011, 12:08 AM
Okay, maybe there should be a set of permanent cabinet (unable to be disbanded) that can be replaced by a vote of non-confidence from the Senate.

this statement is contradictory. I don't want to badger on about this, only to reinforce my original point and Durkadurkiranistan's wise follow up.

We should create separate spaces for the cabinet and citizens or senate. The idea that a cabinet member can be "voted out" sounds good on paper, but it isn't practical. First, consider what it takes to become a cabinet member. We must have faith in Durkadurkiranistan that the selected cabinet will be of the highest quality, and as such there should never be a need for them to be "voted out". Furthermore we should recognize that any improper conduct/poor performance would be a steep insult not only to the region but to Durkadurkiranistan himself, and can be handled directly by him. If someone is executing an important cabinet position poorly, we shouldn't have to wait or expect to have to organize a vote to show him the door.

I will agree with Durkadurkiranistan that a good way to connect the two is for the senate to approve his nominations. Other than that the senate should not interfere.

I will also say while I commend the speed and enthusiasm of this process, we must be conscious of the current climate. Perhaps a stronger base should be assembled first. Furthermore, saying something like "we are writing a regional constitution" is a good recruitment tool that we will lack if we push ahead too soon.

My bad. I meant they can vote out the MEMBERS of the cabinet. Not the cabinet as a whole.

I fixed some of this in a new draft.
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HIM Emperor Emeritus Durk II
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Simply Irresistible
Okay, finally figured out the inbox thing. Now it should flash red when you have a new message.
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