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President of the Senate; Creation of a Senate President
Topic Started: Feb 5 2011, 01:04 PM (570 Views)
HIM Emperor Emeritus Durk II
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Simply Irresistible
Rinamir Mortem
Feb 7 2011, 11:25 PM
A Speaker would certainly alleviate the burdens that our illustrious Emperor must suffer if messages must be sent to Senators to tell them to vote.
However, should we not be careful to keep the Imperial Legion's bureaucracy as stream lined as possible? Surely adding a post that could be filled easily by others without the need for a title would only complicate matters?
I am for such a position and would like to try my hand at this post if possible but we probably shouldn't rush in. Instead perhaps smooth out and define the true role this Speaker will play so as to avoid confusion?

Horak recommended establishing a procedure whereby anyone could start a voting thread as long as they have a second motion (I think). Worth considering at least.
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Trasillia
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I see the senators point about equality however the majority of the senate has voted to create a speaker of the Senate majesty.

It rewards active participation and gives the senators who are not cabinet ministers or otherwise like myself and asencia, something to aim for
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Horak
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Respectfully, I would caution you in being so bold at advancing your agenda.

No "vote" has been taken. This is not an official voting thread, the poll above has served to show what the initial sentiments of the members were.
They do not reflect official votes or any change in feeling brought on by discussion, discussion that has been debated between nations who have already "voted". Therefore, nothing has yet been set in stone.


To Durkadurkiranistan yes that was my plan. From experience I will tell that legislators often piggyback on "speakers" far too often. I disagree that it encourages activity, rather it encourages laziness. If you want to strive for something, strive for being the author of legislation, not being someone who starts the voting threads. Often such speakers are either the cause of, or unfairly blamed for an inactive legislature. It really isn't a position we need.
I will outline my argument:
The position of Speaker would:

Assume exclusive duties that could easily be filled by other senators
Run the risk of leaving the legislature at stand still if he/she suddenly went away
Create unnecessary competition
Is especially premature at this point because no one here has written any legislation, and therefore the region would not be informed enough of any candidate to make an intelligent decision.
Would give the title holder an air of legitimacy/superiority, even if outside of the title they have no accomplishments to speak of (since no one has penned any legislation).
Would ruin the current even standing that all senators currently stand on within the legislature.

I think rather than a speaker if people need trophies or titles to stay active than the senate could easily pass a law/resolution praising a certain individual for their contributions. Or the position could be filled later once we actually see what people are capable of.

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Ascienia
Known Traitor
I am in approval of this idea, but only of the idea as a whole/ I am not against it, unlike my colleague Horak, but I also have certain concerns. Should the Constitution Bill pass, then the Senate can flesh out more details, and hopefully they will be quelled when a more detailed document is published.
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New Enterprise
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There are many excellent points made in this debate.

One way would be to have a Speaker position that rotates between Senators, if a Speaker is needed to administer votes. It could be done without a special forum mask, to alleviate the burden of forum administrators. A set time period and a list of Senators in the order we decide would mean that it would become foreseeable and not require much work. If the designated Speaker were to disappear, then the Speaker position could simply be assumed by the next Senator on the list and the Senate could confirm with a vote that the previous Speaker did in fact disappear and the new Speaker shall hold the office.

A rotating Speaker position would promote longevity, as any Senator would know that there comes a time when s/he steps up to the plate and "leads" the Imperial Senate.
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Ascienia
Known Traitor
I think it's time to put everyone's ideas together.

Anyone can submit motions, once a motion is submitted, then a randomly chosen 3 member panel is delegated to review it. The panel can choose to kill it or put it to vote. Both decisions must be held in consensus, if the panel cannot make a conclusion, then the member that is at odds (since the distribution must be 2-1, 1-2, 3-0, or 0-3) is removed and replaced randomly (cannot be anyone who served previously). If three replacements have been made and the panel still cannot decide, then the motion is stayed for 1 week.
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HIM Emperor Emeritus Durk II
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Simply Irresistible
Ascienia
Feb 8 2011, 10:46 PM
I think it's time to put everyone's ideas together.

Anyone can submit motions, once a motion is submitted, then a randomly chosen 3 member panel is delegated to review it. The panel can choose to kill it or put it to vote. Both decisions must be held in consensus, if the panel cannot make a conclusion, then the member that is at odds (since the distribution must be 2-1, 1-2, 3-0, or 0-3) is removed and replaced randomly (cannot be anyone who served previously). If three replacements have been made and the panel still cannot decide, then the motion is stayed for 1 week.

That seems really complicated. :P
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New Enterprise
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I was under the impression that we were discussing a strictly administrative position, albeit perhaps with tie-breaking power.

I believe any motion put forward by a Senator should make it to vote after being seconded by another Senator.

I do not like the idea of a President, Speaker or review panel having the power to kill a motion.
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Horak
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Hear, hear!

I would also say that your idea about "rotating speakers" is a good compromise, but essentially at that point can't we just have everyone be equal? I understand the desire to create a leader, but I think the fact that you are willing to have the position rotate indicates the lack of substance behind the actual role.
Any one can create a draft, once that draft is seconded (maybe thirded once we get larger) then the original poster can create a voting thread, have 72 hours, everyone votes and we are done.

Simple, democratic, and everyone is on equal footing.
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New Enterprise
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Perhaps not only an alternative, but the BEST alternative, yes, my fellow Senators, I am using the b-word, would be to start working as Horak is suggesting without any official leader of the Imperial Senate, see how this works when we engage in actual policy-making processes in a more secure framework than the interim principles in place at the moment and thereupon pass judgement on whether an Imperial Senate without an official leader is the optimal modus operandi or whether we should create an office of Speaker, President or leader of another name.

It is my impression that the Imperial Legion is full of opportunities for ambitious Senators and that there is now and will be to a greater extent in the very near future many roles which national leaders can fill apart from the highly prestigious roles of serving in the Imperial Senate and Imperial Attack Force.

If the majority will of the Imperial Senate should prove to be that we indeed must create an office such as this one as soon as possible, then I offer to resubmit my proposal that this office would rotate between Senators.
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His Lordship Yonghuoyan
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House of Lords
I support this suggestion. For now, why don't we try out "legislating" without an official leader, and see how it goes.
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HIM Emperor Emeritus Durk II
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Simply Irresistible
Sounds good to me as well.
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