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Governing Document - Draft 4
Topic Started: Feb 6 2011, 11:43 PM (531 Views)
HIM Emperor Emeritus Durk II
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Simply Irresistible
New Enterprise
Feb 7 2011, 05:50 AM
Ascienia
Feb 6 2011, 11:43 PM
2.2) The Imperial Senate reviews all External Affairs actions such as, but not including declarations of war, treaties of friendship, etc. They cannot reject them, but can stay the bill until a specified date.

"such as, but not including" sounds contradictory. Should it perhaps be "including, but not limited to"?

Good catch; it's been edited into my revised document.
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Horak
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How about actual voting procedures?
For example the senate votes when:
Approving Ministers
Removing Ministers
Deciding to stay a bill
establishing no confidence, etc

are all of these actions taken by simple majority vote? Or does self organizing imply that a decision on this is taken on a case by case basis?

i would also say ties should be decided by the emperor.
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New Enterprise
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I think there might have been an oversight, as 1.1) of the latest version retains the word "Sentry" while it has been changed to "Council" throughout the rest of the draft.

As for voting procedures, perhaps they need not be specified in the Governing Document, but could be clarified in Standing Orders adopted by the Imperial Senate after the passing of the Governing Document?
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Horak
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well at least interim procedures will be needed or how will the adoption of the standing orders ever be voted on? :P
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New Enterprise
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Perhaps something like this then:

2.8) The Imperial Senate makes decisions by simple majority, where not stated otherwise in this document or other rules established by the Imperial Senate.
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HIM Emperor Emeritus Durk II
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Technically we would need interim procedures in order to properly vote on the constitution itself. :P

I could always issue some basic interim procedures by imperial decree, lol. They'd be just as you said - majority vote (for everything except constitutional amendments as specified in the const), requiring a second and a third motion in order to bring anything to vote, etc. Senate can change them whenever they want.
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HIM Emperor Emeritus Durk II
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My only reservation against putting voting procedures in the constitution is that they can get quite complex and unwieldy. Aside from the issue of majority rules, there are things like how bills may be brought to the floor to vote, how votes should even occur (private or public), who breaks a tie, etc. It'd clutter the constitution IMO.
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Trasillia
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Well majesty wouldn the speaker of the senate break a tie vote?
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HIM Emperor Emeritus Durk II
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Presumably yes but it would be nice to have it codified somewhere.
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Trasillia
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In the senate section of the constitution or in the docement that will ratify and create the speakership?
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New Enterprise
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I believe it was previously suggested in this chamber that the Emperor would break a tie vote. If a tie would happen without a codified way of dealing with it, I fear that Senators might disagree on how it should be dealt with.

I do however agree with the Emperor that voting procedures should be left to another document.
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HIM Emperor Emeritus Durk II
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Trasillia
Feb 7 2011, 06:35 AM
In the senate section of the constitution or in the docement that will ratify and create the speakership?

In the document establishing the operating rules of the Senate.
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Ascienia
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Horak
Feb 6 2011, 10:00 PM
How about actual voting procedures?
For example the senate votes when:
Approving Ministers
Removing Ministers
Deciding to stay a bill
establishing no confidence, etc

are all of these actions taken by simple majority vote? Or does self organizing imply that a decision on this is taken on a case by case basis?

i would also say ties should be decided by the emperor.

You're being nit-picky.

Can we agree these to be the interim terms and vote of the actual structure of the Senate as a whole?

Since right now, we have to get some kind of working mechanism for not just the Imperial Senate, but the External and Internal affairs. All this has so far is loosely defined the roles and some procedures.

As I have stated, the Imperial Senate is a SELF regulating body, so we can feel free to discuss these at a later time. I know this is not perfect, but can we set this as an Interim constitution and work on it later.

Also to quote above, I used the word Sentry to not confuse it with the council of ministers, but it doesn't matter really.
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Rappatoni
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I agree with Ascienia. Let's keep it simple for now.
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HIM Emperor Emeritus Durk II
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I am going to bring this to vote since discussion seems to be winding down.
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