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The official Pet Shop Boys thread; New album "Super"
Topic Started: Oct 30 2008, 11:59 AM (18,096 Views)
Riverwide
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GimmeSomeRiver
Mar 23 2009, 12:30 AM
Imagine if all the acts that weren't platinum sellers just said 'oh well, what's the point of making art and expressing ourselves since we're not selling to joe public. we might as well hang it up'. Then we would be left with... Britney Spears and Lady GaGa basically. What a nightmare.
Not for the likes of henZ.
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nothingfails
Mar 23 2009, 12:30 AM
Riverwide
Mar 23 2009, 12:24 AM
henZ
Mar 23 2009, 12:20 AM
Riverwide
Mar 22 2009, 11:59 PM
Appropriately enough the next single is not so much inspired by the 1980s, but performed by one of the acts whose work from that decade informs and influences the production of both the Lady Gaga and La Roux singles. Fresh from their "outstanding contribution" gongs at last months Brit awards, the Pet Shop Boys arrive at Number 14 with brand new single 'Love Etc.', their highest charting single for three years and a release which means they can boast a hitmaking career spanning an impressive 23 years.

Now assessing any new work by Tennant and Lowe in chart terms is actually something of a minefield, for had a certain other set of 80s veterans not set the standard a few years earlier, our benchmark for chart uselessness might well have been called "Pet Shop Boys Syndrome". Here's the problem: it doesn't matter how much work they put into their new album, how much press they do to promote it or how well received it is critically. This new single and new album 'Yes' (released this week) will sell to absolutely nobody outside their long-term hard core of fans. This blunt statement isn't just based on the perfunctory in and out performance of just about every single they have released in the last ten years, but the utterly dismal sales performance of their albums. Of all the records they have released since 1999, Greatest Hits collection 'Pop Art' is the only one that can boast a shelf life beyond a month.

Just check out the stats. 1999's 'Nightlife' spent two weeks on the album chart, 2002's 'Release' just one. Their 2006 offering 'Fundamental' may have been hailed as an impressive return to form when first released but it too just had a four week chart run before vanishing forever. It saddens me to see it, as the Pet Shop Boys were my favourite group growing up and I avidly collected every single one of their releases during the 80s and 90s. I don't point this out from the position of someone who dislikes their music but the sad truth is that the cultural and creative contribution of their music these days is almost precisely zero. 'Love Etc.' may well be one of the most fun, pop-focused and commercially appealing records they have made in a long time, but I can almost guarantee that you won't find it on the Top 75 within a fortnight and whilst 'Yes' may well have a Top 10 debut on the album chart next week, you won't find it in the shops by Easter. That my friends is Depeche Mode syndrome, and you have to wonder why they continue to bother.
Harsh, but true.
His chart observations are true. His point about "Why should they bother?" is pathetic. Anyone who agrees with him must also be some sort of imbecile too.

Imagine thinking that music is only worthwhile if it sells. That's really, really sad.
I agree with the last part. It reminds me a few weeks ago of this Fleetwood Mac biography I saw on Bio channel (one of the cheap biographies that use no music because they didn't even bother to use rights and interviewed nobody in the band) and this chart historian was there talking about how Tusk was their worst album because it didn't sell as well as Rumours. Ummm, maybe it was their least successful album with the classic lineup but I have never met a FM fan who would say Mirage was a superior record to it.

So what if PSB can't sell like they could 20 years ago, they're still here and still making great music unlike a lot of others who were big at the same time they were. It's nice to sell records and chart well but I'd rather hear a great record that sells 100k worldwide total than a piece of shit that finds its way into five million or more households.
Exactly. :clap:
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There are loads of great records out there that we don't even know of because they didn't sell well. Commercial success isn't exactly irrelevant. What if the Pet Shop Boys had never been successful? They probably wouldn't be making music today.
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henZ
Mar 23 2009, 12:34 AM
There are loads of great records out there that we don't even know of because they didn't sell well. Commercial success isn't exactly irrelevant. What if the Pet Shop Boys had never been successful? They probably wouldn't be making music today.
Well done for trying to make some sort of point. You really must try harder next time though, as that was a complete and utter failure.
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Getting personal again, are we? :) Quelle surprise.
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henZ
Mar 23 2009, 12:38 AM
Getting personal again, are we? :) Quelle surprise.
I said that you failed to make a point. That's "personal" is it?

Get a fucking grip.
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Riverwide
Mar 23 2009, 12:31 AM
GimmeSomeRiver
Mar 23 2009, 12:30 AM
Imagine if all the acts that weren't platinum sellers just said 'oh well, what's the point of making art and expressing ourselves since we're not selling to joe public. we might as well hang it up'. Then we would be left with... Britney Spears and Lady GaGa basically. What a nightmare.
Not for the likes of henZ.
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Please henZ, take your persecution complex somewhere else. You're *ruining* these threads for everyone. Aren't you embarassed?
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henZ
Mar 23 2009, 12:34 AM
There are loads of great records out there that we don't even know of because they didn't sell well. Commercial success isn't exactly irrelevant. What if the Pet Shop Boys had never been successful? They probably wouldn't be making music today.
I understand what you're trying to say, but I think anyone who really wants to record music can and will with the right resources. There are many artists who were far less successful than PSB in the 80's and maybe have 1000 fans at best now, but if they still want to work on new music, they will. Look at Yoko Ono, she has never sold records that weren't collaborations with Lennon but even tho her albums almost never chart, she still releases them because she wants to. You're thinking of a lot of artists who give it up once it's no longer profitable for them, like The Spice Girls. A lot of artists will continue to sell their stuff through small indie labels if their heart is still into recording even if it's going to reach a smaller audience.
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nothingfails
Mar 23 2009, 12:45 AM
henZ
Mar 23 2009, 12:34 AM
There are loads of great records out there that we don't even know of because they didn't sell well. Commercial success isn't exactly irrelevant. What if the Pet Shop Boys had never been successful? They probably wouldn't be making music today.
I understand what you're trying to say, but I think anyone who really wants to record music can and will with the right resources. There are many artists who were far less successful than PSB in the 80's and maybe have 1000 fans at best now, but if they still want to work on new music, they will. Look at Yoko Ono, she has never sold records that weren't collaborations with Lennon but even tho her albums almost never chart, she still releases them because she wants to. You're thinking of a lot of artists who give it up once it's no longer profitable for them, like The Spice Girls. A lot of artists will continue to sell their stuff through small indie labels if their heart is still into recording even if it's going to reach a smaller audience.
Well yes, that is true. But being succesful gives you access to a lot of things. Better studios, better producers, better artwork... all those things that in the end will make your record better. I'll be the first to say that I think Eddi Reader did better albums back in the day when they would actually sell and she had the backing of a major label. It makes the music more accessible as well, what with radio play, music videos and all that.
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Obviously having the resources and money of a major label can be beneficial. On the other hand, it can be restraining as they will always have a say in the way you produce and present the music as its always about the bottom line for them as with any corporation. Also as Chris said in one of their interviews, pretty much anyone with a laptop and some talent can make music now. But the point the interviewer made was that they are not selling much anymore so they should just give up. How is that in any way relevant to what you're saying?
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I absolutely ADORE this album! I bought the special edition last saturday and I've been playing it non stop over the weekend, in fact still playing it at work.

However. Does anybody think Legacy is incredibly shit? :confused: And don't all jump on me, but I hated it the first time I heard it. It's not going anywhere, there's no melody and above all the lines don't fit the music, it's worse than Tori Amos. Maybe I should listen to it a couple more times but I don't think I'll ever like it.

1. Love Etc. 9/10
2. All over the World 9/10
3. Beautiful People 8/10
4. Did You See Me Coming? 7/10
5. Vulnerable 10/10 (my favourite for now)
6. More Than a Dream 8/10
7. Building a Wall 7/10
8. King of Rome 8/10
9. Pandemonium 10/10
10. The Way It Used to Be 7/10
11. Legacy -1/10
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I love "Legacy". It sounded like a total mess at first, but I think it's fantastic now. The string arrangement is wonderful.

There *is* a melody. It's just not a conventional pop one.
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From Yahoo music....James Masterton's comments:

Appropriately enough the next single is not so much inspired by the 1980s, but performed by one of the acts whose work from that decade informs and influences the production of both the Lady Gaga and La Roux singles. Fresh from their "outstanding contribution" gongs at last months Brit awards, the Pet Shop Boys arrive at Number 14 with brand new single 'Love Etc.', their highest charting single for three years and a release which means they can boast a hitmaking career spanning an impressive 23 years.

Now assessing any new work by Tennant and Lowe in chart terms is actually something of a minefield, for had a certain other set of 80s veterans not set the standard a few years earlier, our benchmark for chart uselessness might well have been called "Pet Shop Boys Syndrome". Here's the problem: it doesn't matter how much work they put into their new album, how much press they do to promote it or how well received it is critically. This new single and new album 'Yes' (released this week) will sell to absolutely nobody outside their long-term hard core of fans. This blunt statement isn't just based on the perfunctory in and out performance of just about every single they have released in the last ten years, but the utterly dismal sales performance of their albums. Of all the records they have released since 1999, Greatest Hits collection 'Pop Art' is the only one that can boast a shelf life beyond a month.

Just check out the stats. 1999's 'Nightlife' spent two weeks on the album chart, 2002's 'Release' just one. Their 2006 offering 'Fundamental' may have been hailed as an impressive return to form when first released but it too just had a four week chart run before vanishing forever. It saddens me to see it, as the Pet Shop Boys were my favourite group growing up and I avidly collected every single one of their releases during the 80s and 90s. I don't point this out from the position of someone who dislikes their music but the sad truth is that the cultural and creative contribution of their music these days is almost precisely zero. 'Love Etc.' may well be one of the most fun, pop-focused and commercially appealing records they have made in a long time, but I can almost guarantee that you won't find it on the Top 75 within a fortnight and whilst 'Yes' may well have a Top 10 debut on the album chart next week, you won't find it in the shops by Easter. That my friends is Depeche Mode syndrome, and you have to wonder why they continue to bother.
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Already discussed on page 19!
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right, like I can be arsed to go through that much of this hideously repetitive thread.....
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Legacy is wonderful! Does anyone else love the random bit of French in there? It's fabulous!
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Also! Has anyone else made the fatal error of mishearing the lyrics to Did You See Me Coming?
What I heard was....

"You don't have to be / a high-flyer / to catch a slut"

... what the inlay sleeve says...

"You don't have to be / a high-flyer / to catch your slot"


I was gutted when I found out the true lyrics :(
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After giving the album a few plays, initially, I've had it on quite a lot today, and am liking it very much indeed. "All Over the World", "Building a Wall" (although I could have done without the shouty/talky bits), "More Than a Dream", "Legacy" and "The Way it Used to Be" are particularly splendid. I love "This Used to be the Future" and think it would have been quite a strong addition to the album.

In fact, the only one I'm not really keen on is "Vulnerable", and it's not like a I hate it, I just find it annoying.

Those comments by James Masteron were tragic. The Pets now have a nice little fan base, and sell more than a thousand indie chancers put together.
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